Mice will live forever but we will never see it

originally posted by: Maxmars
Please tell me this is not about selling a book.

Dr. Kara Fitzgerald, whose award-winning research into DNA methylation – the regulation of gene expression – has been studying the difference between biological and chronological aging, and she’s narrowed down how people can feel their best longer in her upcoming book, "YOUNGER YOU: Reduce Your Bio Age and Live Longer, Better."

I know, I know... "Don't be cynical."

I think we need to examine the 'processing' they had to undertake to reverse aging in mouse cells... but mice, as in the organism?

Good catch. Her site claims "3-year reversal of biological aging after just 8 weeks of interventions." - and I'd like to know how they know it's a 3 year reversal of biological aging.

Looking at the institute that granted her the title of "doctor" shows that it's a 4 year degree in "Naturopathic medicine", and further poking around doesn't give me much confidence in the research or the degree. I think you're on the mark that it'll be used to sell books and programs.

Pass. And none of them would live for forever even if they have immortal regeneration. The survival rate of everything is zero given a long enough time line. And like Chris posted it won’t matter unless they have a cure for every fatal illness. There is no cure for being murdered, not all the richest most powerful people get along. Why wouldn’t they try to off each other to gain even more power, what if another immortal is in their way hindering their progress….well after going as far as they did why wouldn’t they remove the road block.

All they would achieve is prolonging the inevitable.

Plus I doubt the human mind would stand up to hundreds of years without complete psychotic degeneration. People sometimes break after a single traumatic event, given a long timeline one would bear witness to much.

Anyone wishing this for this for their loved ones…..honestly your fools.

a reply to: DAVID64

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Maxmars
Please tell me this is not about selling a book.

Dr. Kara Fitzgerald, whose award-winning research into DNA methylation – the regulation of gene expression – has been studying the difference between biological and chronological aging, and she’s narrowed down how people can feel their best longer in her upcoming book, "YOUNGER YOU: Reduce Your Bio Age and Live Longer, Better."

I know, I know... "Don't be cynical."

I think we need to examine the 'processing' they had to undertake to reverse aging in mouse cells... but mice, as in the organism?

Good catch. Her site claims "3-year reversal of biological aging after just 8 weeks of interventions." - and I'd like to know how they know it's a 3 year reversal of biological aging.

Looking at the institute that granted her the title of "doctor" shows that it's a 4 year degree in "Naturopathic medicine", and further poking around doesn't give me much confidence in the research or the degree. I think you're on the mark that it'll be used to sell books and programs.

Why dismiss this science? - She completed the first Counsel on Naturopathic Medicine-accredited post-doctorate position in nutritional biochemistry and laboratory science at Metametrix Clinical Laboratory under the direction of Richard Lord, PhD. - the Chinese didn't dismiss their ancient herbal medicine for a thousand years. Maybe we should get back to diet and herbal medicines - 'you are what you eat' may still apply.

Being a 80 year old person with a 40 year old body sounds wonderful, right.


But all you have is a 40 year old body with all the mutations, bad genetics, cancer causing chemicals etc of a 80 year old person.


Sounds nice in theory, not so much in reality.

Why anybody want to live forever? My wife get annoyed with me, cause I tell her…
I could die tomorrow and be happy, it’s living too long that scares me. I don’t want to be in a nursing home, with someone else whipping my back-side at 90. After about 65, maybe few years of retirement and I’m good. Well...if a shot could make you stay younger for more years, would I take it…. more years of working and paying taxes, yeah, no thanks. Keep me off the “fountain of youth” list.

I surely do not want to live forever, can you immagine how frustrating it would be seeing the young make so many mistakes and their mistakes getting worse with every generation for even a hundred years. Society is getting all messed up because people believe they have a right to change anything they do not like and people are more demanding these days, they cannot even wait to see a movie, they want it when they want it immediately....and complain like hell when the rush causes problems.

I don't want to live even twenty more years, let alone be immortal. Society is falling apart, criminals seem to have more rights than good people these days.

a reply to: DBCowboy
I could see living forever. Yeah, that'd be alright.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Maxmars
Please tell me this is not about selling a book.

Dr. Kara Fitzgerald, whose award-winning research into DNA methylation – the regulation of gene expression – has been studying the difference between biological and chronological aging, and she’s narrowed down how people can feel their best longer in her upcoming book, "YOUNGER YOU: Reduce Your Bio Age and Live Longer, Better."

I know, I know... "Don't be cynical."

I think we need to examine the 'processing' they had to undertake to reverse aging in mouse cells... but mice, as in the organism?

Good catch. Her site claims "3-year reversal of biological aging after just 8 weeks of interventions." - and I'd like to know how they know it's a 3 year reversal of biological aging.

Looking at the institute that granted her the title of "doctor" shows that it's a 4 year degree in "Naturopathic medicine", and further poking around doesn't give me much confidence in the research or the degree. I think you're on the mark that it'll be used to sell books and programs.

it's a lot like telling you that if you get the jab, you will get less sick than you would have without it. You have to trust them, with no way to measure that.

a reply to: drongosrevenge


PM for you.

originally posted by: network dude
it's a lot like telling you that if you get the jab, you will get less sick than you would have without it. You have to trust them, with no way to measure that.

Well, no.

I've looked at the curriculum for the school and I've actually been through some of the curriculum to become an MD. They're not comparable. Plus, there's a lot of criticism about the poor quality research done by that Institute.

Looking at the statement the made about "eight weeks of treatment" leading to 3 years of life -- given the length of human lifetimes and the number of years they have been doing research, they couldn't possibly have studied a big group of humans taking the treatment from birth to death to see that result.

Mice have short little lives. I can see it with mice (the lab mice are basically clones of each other - unlike humans. Human physiology is ALL over the map.) I don't find it as credible when talking about humans.

originally posted by: quintessentone
Why dismiss this science? - She completed the first Counsel on Naturopathic Medicine-accredited post-doctorate position in nutritional biochemistry and laboratory science at Metametrix Clinical Laboratory under the direction of Richard Lord, PhD.

(nod) I see that now that you point it out. I'd glanced over it, but didn't actually focus on that. But the naturopath program seems awfully light when compared to medical school. (as an example, this is the Harvard Med School course catalog) and there's a lot of stuff covered in med school (homeostasis, for instance, or genetics) that doesn't seem to get a blink or a nod at naturopathic colleges.

And Metametrix is a reliable lab, according to everything I see.

the Chinese didn't dismiss their ancient herbal medicine for a thousand years. Maybe we should get back to diet and herbal medicines - 'you are what you eat' may still apply.

I'm not as enthusiastic about Chinese herbal medicine. I know it has its fans, but frankly, it also has "medicines" like ground up tiger male sexual organs and rhinoceros horn and ground up seahorse. It's led to the near-extinction of a number of creatures (and one reason I don't like it) ... but also, each of these things isn't really a "pure" item. For example, ginseng (which we can both agree does some effective blood thinning) from one root won't be the same quality if the root came from a different region or a different soil or was harvested at a different time in the plant's life.

Data shows the average life expectancy in the Song dynasty was around 25-35 years - so I'm not going to agree about herbal medicine being much better than modern medicine.

As an addition to that data, Here's an article about family histories from the Wang Genealogy (began recording about 500 BC) - a few live to 80 or 100, but most die before age 40.

So... I'm not such a big fan of traditional medicine for a lot of things.

a reply to: Ravenwatcher

Living 'biologically' forever, and forever potentially in a very dangerous kinetic environment full of hazards such as that on Earth are different things.

You could cure all age-related diseases, but other things like natural disasters, accidents, unanticipated malignancies and other incurable non-age-related / infectious conditions, overdoses, homicide, starvation / resource depletion, a potential solar micronova, and an infinite number of other currently less prominent causes of death will still kill people, unfortunately -- or maybe -- fortunately?

We just are not going to really be immortals in this existence.

It has been stated before, that when one calculates the limit of time to infinity, the survival of every individual goes to zero at some point.

Immortality is a strange topic.

I desire to live a long and interesting life, but I most certainly don't desire to live forever. Life seems to exist where it can, even when there's incredible circumstances. This impresses me so much I tend to believe in reincarnation, or other forms of 'the cycle of life'.

The research on telemeres and telomerase and it's effects on the lifespan of human cells is fascinating when I can understand it.

The other day I stumbled across an article and some videos on Hydra Vulgaris, or water hydras. They are a simple little microscopic organism with sticky tentacles attached to a mouth with a digestive unit, that's it. But here's the kicker, they are made almost entirely of stem cells, which can reassign their designation, meaning they can reconstruct easily. Similar to an earthworm when you cut it in half, it grows into 2 new organisms. But here's where it's even weirder. They take one and literally blend it into 100's of pieces, then let it just sit. It goes Terminator 2 on you and slowly reassembles itself back to its original form. I mean this is about as crazy as an organism gets in my book, like the movie Alien, where the creature can live in incredible circumstances and has failsafes for survival.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: quintessentone
Why dismiss this science? - She completed the first Counsel on Naturopathic Medicine-accredited post-doctorate position in nutritional biochemistry and laboratory science at Metametrix Clinical Laboratory under the direction of Richard Lord, PhD.

(nod) I see that now that you point it out. I'd glanced over it, but didn't actually focus on that. But the naturopath program seems awfully light when compared to medical school. (as an example, this is the Harvard Med School course catalog) and there's a lot of stuff covered in med school (homeostasis, for instance, or genetics) that doesn't seem to get a blink or a nod at naturopathic colleges.

And Metametrix is a reliable lab, according to everything I see.

the Chinese didn't dismiss their ancient herbal medicine for a thousand years. Maybe we should get back to diet and herbal medicines - 'you are what you eat' may still apply.

I'm not as enthusiastic about Chinese herbal medicine. I know it has its fans, but frankly, it also has "medicines" like ground up tiger male sexual organs and rhinoceros horn and ground up seahorse. It's led to the near-extinction of a number of creatures (and one reason I don't like it) ... but also, each of these things isn't really a "pure" item. For example, ginseng (which we can both agree does some effective blood thinning) from one root won't be the same quality if the root came from a different region or a different soil or was harvested at a different time in the plant's life.

Data shows the average life expectancy in the Song dynasty was around 25-35 years - so I'm not going to agree about herbal medicine being much better than modern medicine.

As an addition to that data, Here's an article about family histories from the Wang Genealogy (began recording about 500 BC) - a few live to 80 or 100, but most die before age 40.

So... I'm not such a big fan of traditional medicine for a lot of things.

I absolutely agree with you on not using some of the Chinese traditional items which they consider medicines or active substances which endangers fauna/flora, as well as how the plant is grown.

I have, in the past, researched herbal medicine for personal use and where (soil composition) a the plant is situated, in a forest for example, determines what additional elements the plant uptakes - again, 'You are what you eat' (e.g. where grapes are grown (soil composition) determines the wine's makeup/taste.

I can't tell you how many doctors I've tried to discuss the implications of biochemical nature of herbal medicines alongside pharmacological medicines within the body and the doctors have no information and don't know the interactions and both are chemicals. Do medical professionals learn about the biochemistry of medicines?, I don't think so.

As to homeostasis and genetics, of course there is no comparison, but interestingly enough my experience with a naturopath was such that they look for specific physical signs to determine illness and/or disorder within the body and then prescribe accordingly, which in my case worked very well.

As for Chinese people's through the ages, I recall most were living in poverty so that would also affect lifespan.

a reply to: Aliquandro

Why go to sleep in time you can see everything .

a reply to: ancientlight

Not sure you should be opining on any mature topics such as God or spirituality if you can't even see the problem with what you posted.

originally posted by: tbrooks123
Why anybody want to live forever? My wife get annoyed with me, cause I tell her…
I could die tomorrow and be happy, it’s living too long that scares me. I don’t want to be in a nursing home, with someone else whipping my back-side at 90. After about 65, maybe few years of retirement and I’m good. Well...if a shot could make you stay younger for more years, would I take it…. more years of working and paying taxes, yeah, no thanks. Keep me off the “fountain of youth” list.

and bury everyone you know and love?

for me. pretty much did that already. don't want to do it again.

originally posted by: sarahvital

originally posted by: tbrooks123
Why anybody want to live forever? My wife get annoyed with me, cause I tell her…
I could die tomorrow and be happy, it’s living too long that scares me. I don’t want to be in a nursing home, with someone else whipping my back-side at 90. After about 65, maybe few years of retirement and I’m good. Well...if a shot could make you stay younger for more years, would I take it…. more years of working and paying taxes, yeah, no thanks. Keep me off the “fountain of youth” list.

and bury everyone you know and love?

for me. pretty much did that already. don't want to do it again.

My wife was raised by her grandmother, her real mom left her. So, mom is grandma. The hardest death I had to deal with in my family was my wife's mom. She had to be put on hospice and she was 94, she didn't have money at that age. She ended up on in home hospice care...which is horrible. It's me and my wife feeding her pills while watching her slowly pass away. I wish that on nobody. Yet, nobody gets to live forever, death is a part of life. Faith gives you something to look forward to. My wife's mother is alive and well somewhere else. We'll see her again.

I anticipate such research will face a lot of resistance from religious authorities. If it becomes a reality there won't be much need for their services anymore.

a reply to: sarahvital

Presumably in the given scenario if you were immortal than your loved ones could also be immortal.

I would take immortality if it came with eternal youth. Don’t wanna get older and older. Pretty sure you’d look like a raisin by 1000.