Three little letters explain most of our supply chain issues.

In the UK, this is called AdBlue. It's an inexpensive additive. It's been in new diesel vehicles since around 2015, but used in industry well before then. Existing diesel cars and lorries do not have to retrofit. It helps reduce emissions.

a reply to: TheRedneck

If the central processor in the truck is stopping the speed from going over five miles an hour, then it is getting the feedback from the speedo. Wouldn't disconnecting te speedo do the trick?

a reply to: anonentity

If the central processor in the truck is stopping the speed from going over five miles an hour, then it is getting the feedback from the speedo. Wouldn't disconnecting te speedo do the trick?

I hadn't thought about that! I believe that speedometer sensor uses pulsed data coming from a Hall effect sensor on the wheel. If I were to build a small in-line box, remote activated from the dash, that would intercept those signals and divide them by, say, 20, that would put the de-rate to 100 mph!

Would be super-simple to design, too!

Next question... would that affect the electronic logs? I think they work off GPS location instead of wheel speed... but it would bring up a log issue. As I understand it, the truck starts automatically logging drive time at a certain speed, determined by the speedometer, so that could be an issue. Whatever I built would have to be kept secret or it would be made illegal.

It would also affect the speedometer, so the driver wouldn't be able to see how fast they were really going. I'll have to think about how to get around that.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: sarahvital

couldn't a good hacker help out with an override?

That's what deleting the DEF entails. The DEF header and sensors are still there, as well as the particulate filter. But the software is re-programed to ignore it. Problem is, that invalidates all warranties and every time someone does an upgrade on the software, it puts the DEF system back.

The people who have the equipment to reprogram and the knowledge of how to reprogram the ECUs are of course charging a lot of money for the service. Last I heard from my friend it was $4000 to delete the DEF system. That's $4000 every time the software is upgraded. Even if one tells the shops where PMs (Preventive Maintenance, required by law) are performed to not do an upgrade, sometimes they do anyway; it's a part of the service. Once the upgrade is in, one cannot reverse the process; the DEF system must be deleted again.

In states where they have to environmentally certify vehicles annually, the vehicle will not pass certification without the DEF system functioning properly. In California, anyone caught driving without a properly-functioning DEF system is OOS (out of service; truck cannot be driven at all for any reason) until it is repaired. If not repaired in a certain time, the truck is impounded and sent to a junkyard. And those road repairs or tows are damned expensive in California! Many times the driver simply cannot pay so they lose their truck. I've heard of drivers simply choosing to hang it up over that and abandoning a nearly-new truck (minimum $60K, usually closer to $100K).

TheRedneck

dam,
that sucks.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Most aware drivers know their speed anyway. Or just don't go faster than the traffic. But yeh GPS? If the GPS goes down the whole of the trucking industry can't stop, so it might not be an issue.The circuit for the hall sensor must go to the speedo display and then to the processor, a disconnection of that circuit should do something.Or fool it. But what a game to have to play!

I have an invention.
Just hook a tube directly to the truck driver to fill the reservoir where you mix the water and make def without any manufacturing and save on all the packaging.
And you cleanup all the highways littered with water bottles that look like they are filled with apple juice.
What do you think?
Do I have something?😁

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: xuenchen

Sorry, I missed this earlier.

I left driving around 2009, so it happened shortly after that. I was already hearing reports about the new exhaust system that trucks were going to be required to have, but so far no legislation had gone into effect. My last trip to California was in 2008? I think? DEF was not required.

At first, the DEF system was just seen as another pain in drivers' butts. It took a few years to phase out / convert the older trucks. The real problem came when the chip shortages started; those sensors are made of semiconductor materials. Before that, DEF was just seen as another way "the man" was sticking it to drivers... nothing new.

TheRedneck

I haven't read the entire thread so if you covered it already.
Def is 1/3 urea, 2/3 water.
And I am not buying that it is ionized water and filtered urea.
I have run out of def too far to run at 5 mph and everything runs just fine on bottled water till I can get to def.

a reply to: Nevercompromise

Just hook a tube directly to the truck driver to fill the reservoir where you mix the water and make def without any manufacturing and save on all the packaging.
And you cleanup all the highways littered with water bottles that look like they are filled with apple juice.

Well, let me say that any driver who tosses those "trucker bombs" around should be ashamed of themselves. That's just nasty.

We all keep a bottle (or two or five) in the truck... I know a lot of the lady drivers also keep a funnel. It's just part of being on the road. Sometimes there's nowhere one can legally stop for a couple of hours and when you gotta go, you gotta go! So sometimes one has to simply pull off on the shoulder, do what they have to do, and take off again.

Peeing on the side of the road, even out of sight of other traffic, is legally defined as "improper disposal of human waste." The tickets get pretty expensive, since the EPA is involved in that. I was stopped one time on a wide pulloff, and went in the bunk to do what had to be done. Afterward, I figured I had been driving pretty hard for a while, so I decided to check my tires quickly. As I was walking around the truck with my tire thumper, a cop pulled up. The first question out of his mouth was "Are you relieving yourself?"

Of course he didn't believe me when I said no. So now I get to wait while he takes his flashlight and shines it on the ground all around my truck. I'll admit I was a bit nervous... had the last driver who stopped there done something nasty on the roadside? Luckily, if one had, it had dried and the cop didn't find anything wet enough to charge me with. And this wasn't in California or New York... this was actually in Alabama! Taking a leak in Momma Nature is just common here! But on the roadside, it's a big huge, no-no.

I always kept some hydrogen peroxide in the truck as well... keeps the odor down. And I always disposed of the "apple juice" in as hygienic a manner as possible whenever possible. Those drivers who just toss them out the window are just being nasty, and to be honest, are responsible for a lot of the big parking lots that no longer allow trucks to park overnight. If you have a full bottle, figure out somewhere sanitary to dispose of it! No one wants to clean those things up!

It's no different than peeing on the walls in a public restroom. That'll tick people off, too.

At some truck stops, especially in rural areas, there's a spot way, way back in the back of the parking lot, usually wooded or overgrown, where truckers pour them out. It's easy to find; just get as far from the building as you can and follow your nose. At least that way, all the mess is kept in one small area, out of the way of other people, where nature can do its recycling thing. Another option is to pour it out in a porta-potty... those are usually scattered around, and designed for that.

But back to your suggestion: the urea in DEF fluid is filtered. Used apple juice is more than just urea... it contains urea (uric acid) but that's not the same thing. Consider mixing gasoline and motor oil 50/50... what have you got? Put it in your crankcase and your motor will blow. Put it in the fuel tank and the fuel system will clog up tight. It's not good for either application, even though it is both gasoline and motor oil. Until it is separated out, it's waste, good for nothing.

Same with the used apple juice. It's waste. It contains urea, but it also contains a bunch of other things that would play hell with the sensors in the DEF system. It's also a lot less concentrated than DEF fluid.

While that idea won't do much, I do want to compliment you on the concept... you are trying to take a waste product and reuse it! I like any idea that tries to do that. Please keep thinking that way.

I have run out of def too far to run at 5 mph and everything runs just fine on bottled water till I can get to def.

Now that's a new one on me! I need to look into that. Bottled water is pretty pure anyway (as is tap water), so there's a chance that works OK without harming the motor. Before I actually condone it, though, I want to look into it some more... so anyone reading try this at your own risk!

TheRedneck

I was tongue in cheek about my invention.
But it is actually feasible.
I am assuming the entire purpose of mixing urea with water for def is because of boiling points?
So why would it be so difficult to reconfigure the reservoir system to condition it.
You confuse when you say it is engine related since it is an exhaust system.

I joke with the folk at the counter that they make it in the backroom and is why their employer gives free coffee..

And the ammonia is present every once in awhile so it is obvious the process in making it is flawed as there is no consistency.


And rumour is that a group of scientists have determined to release open source to the world the technology they have been working on in regards to resonant frequencies.
This stemming from all the work in the techniques used to cut and move the large stones quarried in Egypt.

I will look for the link.
There is absolutely no way whatsoever it will be lithium batteries that will charge cars, planes, etc...

RF or hydrogen are the only options IMO.
Def pisses me off(pun intended)


a reply to: TheRedneck

a reply to: Nevercompromise

I am assuming the entire purpose of mixing urea with water for def is because of boiling points?

No, urea is used for its chemical reactivity with nitrates and nitrides.

The high temperature involved in regen is to force complete combustion of the accumulated carbon particles. Nothing to do with urea.

You confuse when you say it is engine related since it is an exhaust system.

Modern diesel engines recirculate the exhaust. Every truck out there has a turbocharger built into the very engine design that takes the pressure from the exhaust and uses it to pre-compress the intake air. The exhaust system is so deeply entwined with the mechanics of the internal engine itself that it is considered a part of the internal engine.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Thank you for that really good explanation.
I am driving a 26' stakebed an awful lot.
Leasing and renting for years so I experienced the complete failures and successes as all the new electronics with def and transitions happened by driving the different trucks I get to switch out.
Things are getting smoother especially transmissions but I see no extended gas mileage of any consideration.
So many sensors now that they do not even trust you to check your fluid lvls.

The guy talking of the tech about to be released is Randall Carlson I believe.
Caught him on Joe Rogan.
Everything is so retarded and expensive. Combine that with the oil, diesel, def, semi-cunductor and anything else they can threaten independent transportation with which supposedly is to force us to electric.
But electric cannot work as is.
If this is the 4th industrial revolution then I am confident we are about to scrap all this for something new and different.
Suppressed tech.
It may just be hopium but the present scenarios just do not work.
Did I mention I hate def.
That would change if I could just pee in the resovoir

a reply to: Nevercompromise

My pleasure. Having been both a driver (always company) and an electrical engineer, I think I have a pretty unique perspective.

The problem is we have a lot of "eco-idiots" in leadership positions now who want power from combustion without the chemical reactions that define combustion. That's the real idea behind the "carbon credits" scam... make people figure out how to burn fuel without burning fuel, because they can't figure out a way.

Electric vehicles is a good idea for some applications... short commutes to and from work, that sort of thing. When it comes to long distance, though, the infrastructure just isn't there. When talking heavy-duty (trucks) the power density isn't there. Personally I would prefer a hybrid over a full electric simply because it has alternate power sources, but even a hybrid wouldn't work for everyone.

And that statement doesn't take into account the verified fact that electric vehicles cost more, in terms of both price and environmental pollution, to manufacture. Plus, that electricity has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere more often than not is just as carbon-intensive as burning fuel.

It's nothing more than a failed attempt to bypass physical laws.

As for economy... I can remember a driving "challenge" I took from a local dealership back in the 1980s where the car was supposed to get over 50 mpg highway. Back in 1987, I had a brand-new Buick Riviera with a 3.8L engine; it ran for over 500,000 miles and on the highway consistently got upwards of 30 mpg. Some years later I had a 2001 Buick LeSabre with the same 3.8L engine and a lot of the fancy newer electronic sensors. It regularly got 26 mpg on the highway, despite being a much smaller car. Now I have a 2008 Buick Lucerne with the new, "better," more advanced 3.9L engine, and I cannot get the economy over 23 mpg if I was falling off a cliff, despite it being smaller than the LeSabre.

The cars are getting smaller, lighter, and more complex in their sensors, and fuel mileage keeps dropping. We're going the wrong way. By that metric, I need an old Sherman tank to drive... it'll probably get 500 mpg!

Did I mention I hate def.
That would change if I could just pee in the resovoir

I know an awful lot of drivers who would echo that sentiment. Even if it didn't help, just being able to do that would be an effective way of dealing with their disgust.

TheRedneck