The Repackaged Illness

a reply to: Asmodeus3


You asserting it wouldn't work isn't the same as it not working.

Other viruses also declined. Were they all rebranded as Covid?

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Asmodeus3


You asserting it wouldn't work isn't the same as it not working.

Other viruses also declined. Were they all rebranded as Covid?

No I am not asserting that it wouldn't work.
I am only commenting on the flu cases and not what happened in the case of the other viral infections. I need proper data for this.

I am saying that there is no evidence for what the CDC has said. They have tried to explain it but it is just not believable. They are trying to explain it on wearing cheap masks and social distancing but that's a speculation for which they are not even sure themselves.

39.67 million cases the years before (estimated) to 485,000 in the year 2020/21 (estimated). No valid explanation exists yet.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Asmodeus3


You asserting it wouldn't work isn't the same as it not working.

Other viruses also declined. Were they all rebranded as Covid?

No I am not asserting that it wouldn't work.
I am only commenting on the flu cases and not what happened in the case of the other viral infections. I need proper data for this.

I am saying that there is no evidence for what the CDC has said. They have tried to explain it but it is just not believable. They are trying to explain it on wearing cheap masks and social distancing but that's a speculation for which they are not even sure themselves.

39.67 million cases the years before (estimated) to 485,000 in the year 2020/21 (estimated). No valid explanation exists yet.

It's long established methods of reducing spread of viruses.

Similar results seen across multiple countries.

Impact also seen on other viruses.

That seems a valid explanation.

There may be other factors (weak flu variant/viral interference) but its not 'covid is just flu'.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Asmodeus3


You asserting it wouldn't work isn't the same as it not working.

Other viruses also declined. Were they all rebranded as Covid?

No I am not asserting that it wouldn't work.
I am only commenting on the flu cases and not what happened in the case of the other viral infections. I need proper data for this.

I am saying that there is no evidence for what the CDC has said. They have tried to explain it but it is just not believable. They are trying to explain it on wearing cheap masks and social distancing but that's a speculation for which they are not even sure themselves.

39.67 million cases the years before (estimated) to 485,000 in the year 2020/21 (estimated). No valid explanation exists yet.

It's long established methods of reducing spread of viruses.

Similar results seen across multiple countries.

Impact also seen on other viruses.

That seems a valid explanation.

There may be other factors (weak flu variant/viral interference) but its not 'covid is just flu'.

Reducing the spread of viruses and the spread of flu in this case isn't the same as almost eliminating flu. The percentage decrease in flu cases is a massive 98.725% and that is not explained by any of the reasons given by the CDC which also speculates and can't provide definite answers without even trying to quantify by how much each factor has contributed.


From an average of 39.67 million infections to 485,000 infections in 2020/21 and the explanations are just not there.


Wearing cheap masks isn't a valid or good explanation. They shouldn't even mention it. It could be very counterproductive for all respiratory diseases including flu and Covid.

The flu shots they have also included as part of their explanations are notorious for not being very effective and for not significantly preventing transmission and infection given the continuous mutations and the new strains emerging.

www.science.org...

Why flu vaccines so often fail

But it's a terribly inadequate vaccine for a serious public health threat. Now, researchers are striving to understand why it fails so often—and how to make a markedly better one.

Given these attempts one can be very confident that the CDC cannot explain the massive drop by 98.725% in the numbers of flu infections. Their explanations are not supported by any quantifiable evidence and they are just speculating without being able to explain how this is possible.

a reply to: Asmodeus3


Again the evidence is that a range of measures where implemented across different contries there was similar results.

You going it wouldn't work however is not evidence.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Asmodeus3


Again the evidence is that a range of measures where implemented across different contries there was similar results.

You going it wouldn't work however is not evidence.

The range of measures cannot justify the massive drop and there is no evidence anywhere they have contributed to such drop.

Here we are talking about the US not other countries.

Wearing cheap masks has no much effect and flu shots are notorious for not being very effective in preventing transmission and infection.

The CDC speculates and has no explanation as to this day.

There has to be serious evidence to justify a drop by more than 98.7%. Simply there isn't any.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

It wasn't just masks it was a whole range of measures designed to reduce the spread of the virus.

I bring up other countries as there is similar results from similar measures. That is evidence.

There is an explanation you just choose not to accept it.

Would you like to offer an alternative explanation?

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Asmodeus3

It wasn't just masks it was a whole range of measures designed to reduce the spread of the virus.

I bring up other countries as there is similar results from similar measures. That is evidence.

There is an explanation you just choose not to accept it.

Would you like to offer an alternative explanation?

I am afraid these are not adequate explanations. Neither are quantified by the CDC nor they give any definite answers but just speculating.

I cannot speculate on what has caused such low numbers of flu cases but it could be that the number of cases isn't that low.

The cheap masks they offered as a reason isn't good or valid and neither the flu shots which are notorious for not preventing transmission and infection.

The problem you have with these speculations is that they fail completely to explain the 98.725% percentage decrease in the number of flu cases.
It's just laughable to claim that cheap masks and flu shots have reduced significantly flu in the year 2020/21 together with social distancing...

They need to come up with something better and they can't so this is unexplained so far as well as suspicious. Nobody believes them.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

You don't believe them based on an argument from incredulity. That is very different from nobody believes them.

The measures don't need to be that effective to explain the dramatic reduction in overall cases for flu.

We have long established mechanisms for reducing spread of viruses producing conistent results across multiple countries.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Asmodeus3

You don't believe them based on an argument from incredulity. That is very different from nobody believes them.

The measures don't need to be that effective to explain the dramatic reduction in overall cases for flu.

We have long established mechanisms for reducing spread of viruses producing conistent results across multiple countries.

They need to be able to prove what they have said but even in their report they are speculating by arguing these measures could have reduced the numbers of flu cases. They don't say by how much and seem not to know why the cases are so low.

To have a combined effect you need to have good measures and need to be able to show mathematically that they reduce the numbers by over 98.7%. This isn't a philosophy debate. We need numbers and calculations as well as proof not beliefs and speculations.

So far they have been unable to explain such a massive drop.

Wearing cheap masks and having flu shots won't do the job. If there was good evidence on it and proof they would have shown it by now.

But it's a terribly inadequate vaccine for a serious public health threat. Now, researchers are striving to understand why it fails so often—and how to make a markedly better one.

I used the word believe but not in a religious way. Nobody believes them or let's say accepts their reasons but I don't think they have made any effort to convince the public. They don't know themselves.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

What kind of evidence would you accept?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
a reply to: ScepticScot

just check the CDC numbers mate .

for the most part they corroborate the OP's chart.

The FLU numbers from 2019 to 2021 took a sharp drop off and the Covid-19 numbers picked up the slack .

Didn't deny flu numbers reduced drastically. It would have been more surprising if they didn't.

That doesn't change that the figures in the OP are highly misleading and that the covid is really flu theory is one of the most stupid of all the covid conspiracy theories.

The theory from some is that the Flu disappeared and that seems really strange knowing at the beginning, everything was covid even without a test. At this stage it's data gathering and trying to comprehend if what is reported is possible, or bullsh!t.

But I am curious as to why you feel flu numbers would have had to go down. Please explain that.

Reasons already given.

The whole range of measures to reduce the spread of covid would have an impact on the spread of other viruses as well.

if by using the masks (that are proven not to work well for Covid), distancing (that is admittedly arbitrary and based on nothing), and handwashing (that most already did) your stance is we removed 99.something percent of the flu? Can you confirm that for me please.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
a reply to: ScepticScot

just check the CDC numbers mate .

for the most part they corroborate the OP's chart.

The FLU numbers from 2019 to 2021 took a sharp drop off and the Covid-19 numbers picked up the slack .

Didn't deny flu numbers reduced drastically. It would have been more surprising if they didn't.

That doesn't change that the figures in the OP are highly misleading and that the covid is really flu theory is one of the most stupid of all the covid conspiracy theories.

The theory from some is that the Flu disappeared and that seems really strange knowing at the beginning, everything was covid even without a test. At this stage it's data gathering and trying to comprehend if what is reported is possible, or bullsh!t.

But I am curious as to why you feel flu numbers would have had to go down. Please explain that.

Reasons already given.

The whole range of measures to reduce the spread of covid would have an impact on the spread of other viruses as well.

That's not believable and especially when the reduction in cases is massive. In the year 2020/21 there were 1,657 confirmed cases. If you want to increase this number and make an estimate it will still be in their thousands. This is extremely low and the CDC describes it as 'unusually low'. That is down from an average of 39.67 million estimated cases in the last 3 years.

The percentage decrease in the summer of flu cases is over 99.99% and the cheap masks together with the social distancing cannot achieve such results unless someone is naive or stupid to believe such claims.

See post above.

While there is a dramatic decline you are comparing two different figures.

then you provide the data. Show us where this is wrong.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
a reply to: ScepticScot

just check the CDC numbers mate .

for the most part they corroborate the OP's chart.

The FLU numbers from 2019 to 2021 took a sharp drop off and the Covid-19 numbers picked up the slack .

Didn't deny flu numbers reduced drastically. It would have been more surprising if they didn't.

That doesn't change that the figures in the OP are highly misleading and that the covid is really flu theory is one of the most stupid of all the covid conspiracy theories.

The theory from some is that the Flu disappeared and that seems really strange knowing at the beginning, everything was covid even without a test. At this stage it's data gathering and trying to comprehend if what is reported is possible, or bullsh!t.

But I am curious as to why you feel flu numbers would have had to go down. Please explain that.

Reasons already given.

The whole range of measures to reduce the spread of covid would have an impact on the spread of other viruses as well.

if by using the masks (that are proven not to work well for Covid), distancing (that is admittedly arbitrary and based on nothing), and handwashing (that most already did) your stance is we removed 99.something percent of the flu? Can you confirm that for me please.

The evidence is Masks do work.

Less close contact will reduce spread of viruses.

Hand washing has been basic hygiene advice for decades.

Combining these and other measures together we would expect the rate of transmission to go down. It doesn't need to go down that much for flu to get very low cases.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
a reply to: ScepticScot

just check the CDC numbers mate .

for the most part they corroborate the OP's chart.

The FLU numbers from 2019 to 2021 took a sharp drop off and the Covid-19 numbers picked up the slack .

Didn't deny flu numbers reduced drastically. It would have been more surprising if they didn't.

That doesn't change that the figures in the OP are highly misleading and that the covid is really flu theory is one of the most stupid of all the covid conspiracy theories.

The theory from some is that the Flu disappeared and that seems really strange knowing at the beginning, everything was covid even without a test. At this stage it's data gathering and trying to comprehend if what is reported is possible, or bullsh!t.

But I am curious as to why you feel flu numbers would have had to go down. Please explain that.

Reasons already given.

The whole range of measures to reduce the spread of covid would have an impact on the spread of other viruses as well.

That's not believable and especially when the reduction in cases is massive. In the year 2020/21 there were 1,657 confirmed cases. If you want to increase this number and make an estimate it will still be in their thousands. This is extremely low and the CDC describes it as 'unusually low'. That is down from an average of 39.67 million estimated cases in the last 3 years.

The percentage decrease in the summer of flu cases is over 99.99% and the cheap masks together with the social distancing cannot achieve such results unless someone is naive or stupid to believe such claims.

See post above.

While there is a dramatic decline you are comparing two different figures.

then you provide the data. Show us where this is wrong.

This has been covered. its 2 different metrics.

See even asmodeus post, he gets it.

a reply to: ScepticScot

so you are saying that the data provided here is accurate, the reduction of 99. something percent is accurate, and by doing these simple things, we can totally eradicate the flu from the face of the earth? I really want to hear that from you, so I don't misconstrue your words.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
a reply to: ScepticScot

just check the CDC numbers mate .

for the most part they corroborate the OP's chart.

The FLU numbers from 2019 to 2021 took a sharp drop off and the Covid-19 numbers picked up the slack .

Didn't deny flu numbers reduced drastically. It would have been more surprising if they didn't.

That doesn't change that the figures in the OP are highly misleading and that the covid is really flu theory is one of the most stupid of all the covid conspiracy theories.

The theory from some is that the Flu disappeared and that seems really strange knowing at the beginning, everything was covid even without a test. At this stage it's data gathering and trying to comprehend if what is reported is possible, or bullsh!t.

But I am curious as to why you feel flu numbers would have had to go down. Please explain that.

Reasons already given.

The whole range of measures to reduce the spread of covid would have an impact on the spread of other viruses as well.

if by using the masks (that are proven not to work well for Covid), distancing (that is admittedly arbitrary and based on nothing), and handwashing (that most already did) your stance is we removed 99.something percent of the flu? Can you confirm that for me please.

The evidence is Masks do work.

Less close contact will reduce spread of viruses.

Hand washing has been basic hygiene advice for decades.

Combining these and other measures together we would expect the rate of transmission to go down. It doesn't need to go down that much for flu to get very low cases.

There is no evidence that cheap masks have any effect on anything. Furthermore there is no evidence and no proof for the reduction by 98.725% in the number of flu cases in 2020/21

If there is then the CDC would have been able to quantify it not to just speculate on the reasons. But they never bothered to prove what they said as the don't know why this has happened.

You are free provide any evidence you have to show the massive reduction by 98.725%

I want Mathematics and not philosophy or assertions of faith. But I understand that mathematics may not be your strong point here.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: ScepticScot

so you are saying that the data provided here is accurate, the reduction of 99. something percent is accurate, and by doing these simple things, we can totally eradicate the flu from the face of the earth? I really want to hear that from you, so I don't misconstrue your words.

Yes this is what he said.

Wearing cheap masks works
Taking the very ineffective flu shots works too
dismissing the facts

www.science.org...

But it's a terribly inadequate vaccine for a serious public health threat. Now, researchers are striving to understand why it fails so often—and how to make a markedly better one

The combined effect of highly ineffective measures is magical....

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
a reply to: ScepticScot

just check the CDC numbers mate .

for the most part they corroborate the OP's chart.

The FLU numbers from 2019 to 2021 took a sharp drop off and the Covid-19 numbers picked up the slack .

Didn't deny flu numbers reduced drastically. It would have been more surprising if they didn't.

That doesn't change that the figures in the OP are highly misleading and that the covid is really flu theory is one of the most stupid of all the covid conspiracy theories.

The theory from some is that the Flu disappeared and that seems really strange knowing at the beginning, everything was covid even without a test. At this stage it's data gathering and trying to comprehend if what is reported is possible, or bullsh!t.

But I am curious as to why you feel flu numbers would have had to go down. Please explain that.

Reasons already given.

The whole range of measures to reduce the spread of covid would have an impact on the spread of other viruses as well.

That's not believable and especially when the reduction in cases is massive. In the year 2020/21 there were 1,657 confirmed cases. If you want to increase this number and make an estimate it will still be in their thousands. This is extremely low and the CDC describes it as 'unusually low'. That is down from an average of 39.67 million estimated cases in the last 3 years.

The percentage decrease in the summer of flu cases is over 99.99% and the cheap masks together with the social distancing cannot achieve such results unless someone is naive or stupid to believe such claims.

See post above.

While there is a dramatic decline you are comparing two different figures.

then you provide the data. Show us where this is wrong.

This has been covered. its 2 different metrics.

See even asmodeus post, he gets it.

There is some issue here as to who gets what. The CDC provided only the number of confirmed cases for 2020/21 and not the estimated ones. I had to do the math for the estimated ones but even in this case the percentage reduction is 98.725%

Network dude said 99% and he isn't that far away.

Now if you also claim that you are a mathematics expert of an expert in biology let us know. I don't think you have any expertise in either of these two subjects

a reply to: Asmodeus3

I really have to hear it from him, so he doesn't weasel out of it later.