US Debt Clock Dollar to Silver Ratio 785 Per Ounce

Hi everyone,

I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking at here but according to US Debt Clock the dollar to silver ratio is $785. Dollar to gold ratio is $5784.

Does anyone have any history on this? Is this a normal number? Why is silver trading at just over $20 if this is the case?

If this is abnormal, this isn't good. This means the dollar has lost a lot of buying power.

What say you?

a reply to: litterbaux

Silver has and always will be the traders ‘whipping boy’.

Someone somewhere will have been taken out by a massive short on this.

Silver is a reasonable investment but you need to go long term on it and kinda forget it.

MR

a reply to: litterbaux

Manipulating the price of precious metals is essential for keeping the dollar in front of the queue, The petrodollar lets the Arabs convert it to Gold and silver cheaply because they would lose interest in it if they couldn't. But apparently, the wheels have come off the COMEX they have sold a lot of paper silver and if people want physical possession it just isn't there. There is as much above-ground silver at the moment as gold. It is getting used up fast in electronics. The reality is that at some stage they will run out. Since most come from lead and copper mines the industrial downturn will be another factor in its scarcity. It might look cheap on the spot price but the premiums are high if you can get it grab it. It's only a matter of time before it takes off.

a reply to: anonentity

You made a couple good points, silver is generally a byproduct of mining other things and if there is no demand for those other things, there will be less silver. BUT, we are still increasing as far as I know.

The other thing is the premiums right now. I've seen close to 100% premiums and people are buying at this price point. I would call them suckers but maybe they know something I don't.

a reply to: litterbaux

Whenever you're a considering an exchange, which is what this is, you have to consider supply and demand.

When you consider something like silver (or any tangible commodity) there is a fixed amount. Maybe you can find more, or even create more, as in the case of something like corn or wheat, but that takes energy.

Energy is the real "money"

Fiat currency, in whatever form, takes little energy to create. A few keystrokes here, a signature there, maybe a printing press, and Bob's your uncle.

Now let's consider demand.

If you really needed something tangible, for which there was no substitute, you would exchange whatever was necessary to obtain it. For instance, if I offered you a garbage bag filled with air in exchange for a kilo of gold, you would say no. If I made that same offer underwater, you might accept. You see where I'm going with this. The value of any tangible commodity depends on how much you need it.

Demand for fiat currency is a bit trickier. It's artificially created. Let's use the US for an example. Why does everyone use dollars? Suppose you own a business, and you decide you do not accept dollars (which is your right). People want what you offer, so they pay you in gold, silver, corn, dust bunnies, whatever you ask. You run into a problem. The IRS wants their cut. They don't accept gold, silver, corn, or dust bunnies, they only accept fiat currency US dollars.

I've got an interesting story about that, but I don't want to make this too long.

So at some point, you have to exchange your preferred medium for exchange for dollars. And there is where the demand for fiat currency is created. The US had an extra edge after WW2 when it became the world's reserve currency. Skipping a few steps, that meant that any country that wanted to buy oil needed US dollars to do it.

Back on point. Real commodities take energy to produce, and have a useful purpose. Fiat currencies have no real value, and are enforced through the use of violence.

So, when it comes to something like dollars vs. silver, there is a definite interest in those who produce fiat currency to maintain the value of something they can control vs. something they can't. Enter the LIBOR (look it up). They are the ones who say an ounce of silver is worth X dollars or whatever. But they can't control reality.

The reality is that the value of fiat currency will always be worth less as time goes on, and the value of real commodities will always depend on demand.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
a reply to: litterbaux

Whenever you're a considering an exchange, which is what this is, you have to consider supply and demand.

When you consider something like silver (or any tangible commodity) there is a fixed amount. Maybe you can find more, or even create more, as in the case of something like corn or wheat, but that takes energy.

Energy is the real "money"

Fiat currency, in whatever form, takes little energy to create. A few keystrokes here, a signature there, maybe a printing press, and Bob's your uncle.

Now let's consider demand.

If you really needed something tangible, for which there was no substitute, you would exchange whatever was necessary to obtain it. For instance, if I offered you a garbage bag filled with air in exchange for a kilo of gold, you would say no. If I made that same offer underwater, you might accept. You see where I'm going with this. The value of any tangible commodity depends on how much you need it.

Demand for fiat currency is a bit trickier. It's artificially created. Let's use the US for an example. Why does everyone use dollars? Suppose you own a business, and you decide you do not accept dollars (which is your right). People want what you offer, so they pay you in gold, silver, corn, dust bunnies, whatever you ask. You run into a problem. The IRS wants their cut. They don't accept gold, silver, corn, or dust bunnies, they only accept fiat currency US dollars.

I've got an interesting story about that, but I don't want to make this too long.

So at some point, you have to exchange your preferred medium for exchange for dollars. And there is where the demand for fiat currency is created. The US had an extra edge after WW2 when it became the world's reserve currency. Skipping a few steps, that meant that any country that wanted to buy oil needed US dollars to do it.

Back on point. Real commodities take energy to produce, and have a useful purpose. Fiat currencies have no real value, and are enforced through the use of violence.

So, when it comes to something like dollars vs. silver, there is a definite interest in those who produce fiat currency to maintain the value of something they can control vs. something they can't. Enter the LIBOR (look it up). They are the ones who say an ounce of silver is worth X dollars or whatever. But they can't control reality.

The reality is that the value of fiat currency will always be worth less as time goes on, and the value of real commodities will always depend on demand.

and the word of the global economic and military hegemon that every nation has tied their currency to, means nothing in your opinion? I'd think military and economic power has more value than some metal with no real value beyond electronics and decoration. all currency loses value but inflation is not as extreme with fiat currency and wages can adapt more easily, with a suddenly fluctuation commodity backed currencies can jump hundreds or thousands of percent out of nowhere, no economy can handle that, fiat is only gonna do that if America was collapsing suddenly from a disaster of epic proportions, or if the global economy crashed and no one could buy or sell American goods. if we were still using gold standard when this all happened we'd be in another great depression right now and a significant number of Americans would be jobless, homeless, eating from food kitchens, have no extra cash and buying nothing. it would be crazy, heck that would've nearly happened just from our wars in iraq and afghanistan, just like vietnam almost did before nixon ended the gold standard during the war. imagine depression during the 80's, 2010's, then 2020's if we still used gold standard.

a reply to: anonentity

...cheap on the spot price but the premiums are high...

Ampex
Look at silver eagles. The average price for 2022 series now is $43.07+/- where the silver spot price is $22.13.


A one oz bar is around $30+/-

a reply to: namehere

You make some interesting points but I don't see how it relates to the current disparity between the spot price of silver and the actual purchase price, which is the topic of this thread.

Perhaps you could author a thread on comparing the advantages and disadvantages of fiat currency vs. commodity based currency. I'm sure it would generate a lot of interest. (No pun intended)

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

The actual amount of silver leaving the Comex isn't sustainable. Smart money is buying the physical.

Only matter of time now.......

a reply to: vNex92

Its been a long time coming.

a reply to: anonentity

It's dropped to $675 an ounce now.

I'm not sure what this actually means. Did the money supply increase or did silver increase? Something had to increase for the price to drop like this. I know demand has not changed.

a reply to: litterbaux

Someone just thought up a price and punched it into the computer. The spot price has nothing to do with supply and demand. Whoever did it did it to discourage investment which suggests there is greater demand. and the dollar must be protected. It could drop to two dollars an ounce on the spot, but you still wouldn't be able to buy any at that price.

a reply to: anonentity

Knowing Comex is running dry, and knowing Pete from down the street isn't buying millions of ounces of silver cuz he's a crazy stacker. The demand is going to go through the roof, very soon. I actually believe demand is more of a factor in the supply demand scenario. The psychology of FOMO is a very strong motivator.

So are you really saying the US debt clock indicator is just BS? Everyone that pays any attention to silver knows the premiums are insane right now. Is this the next ponzi scheme? Draw in the idiot investors and then rug pull?

a reply to: litterbaux

Everything financial is corrupted, the only thing they cant manipulate is the physical in your possession. But the last time I looked the dollar is in its end game red warnings going off everywhere. The Comex can't supply all its contracts. They are only kicking the can down the road, if they don't supply I think they can now pay out in cash. The lower the price the better for them if they call a force majour. Or maybe a bank is in trouble and sold back its silver contracts that is how they have been controlling the spot price. But the spot is irrelevant nowadays.

a reply to: anonentity

Knowing Comex can't supply all of it's contracts and knowing silver is heavily shorted......

At some point, this house of cards is going to fall hard. Will it take the dollar down with it? Probably.

CBDC enters the chat. If that were to happen, would it be best to just take your gains on silver or wait until everything gets "reevaluated" after CBDC? The reason I ask is because there will be certain things you can buy and sell. Would silver be something you can't sell?

a reply to: litterbaux

The whole reset is based on a digital currency, the idea up front is to advise you of your carbon imprint. This is BS as it really is to camouflage the corruption and perversion of the free market for those that are already at the top and want to stay there during the cyclical downturn. What worries them is that people could bypass the banks and use something else for trade and exchange. But how can a digital platform be backed by anything tangible to make it valid? force is the only way. If the power goes out it is all over . If the weather systems change radically it's all over, if social unrest keeps going it's over. If enough people die off it's over. If a war starts it's over. It has too many flaws. If you have silver or gold and you want an item, the only difficulty is working out the amount the seller is willing to accept and the amount the buyer is willing to part with to make a deal. Or would you rather do a deal in a lame-duck fiat that is inflating so fast no real deal can be done.? Who can police the transaction, or prove that silver or gold was used?



This analyst thinks that the shorting on the SLV is keeping the spot down when at the same time physical is taking off. If you can follow him he makes sense.

Hmm this is strange. The dollar to silver, gold and oil went to zero.

I don't know how to add a picture but here's the link. U.S. National Debt Clock.

The fields I'm referring to are about the 3 o'clock region of the page. All three metrics have a * next to them but I don't see where the * is defined.

What do you guys think is going on?

EDIT: I found where the * is defined. The reason the ratio is zero is because the M2 money supply is decreasing. But wouldn't this increase the price of precious metals? Or am I thinking about this backwards?