Two planes collided mid-air during an air show at Dallas Executive Airport on Saturday.

a reply to: putnam6
I would like to know what circumstances lead to the two planes being in such close proximity. It isn’t like they are aerobatic aircraft.
Something is very wrong about this.

a reply to: butcherguy

They do this all the time. They simulate an attack, and depending on who is flying, they may have fighter escorts that are going to have to rejoin on the bomber at some point. I haven’t seen anything that makes me think there’s anything wrong about this. Davis-Monthan last year did something similar.

Someone got a picture of the aircraft immediately after impact. The B-17 cockpit is destroyed from just behind the pilots, and the wings are slightly twisted compared to each other.

Came down like it was made out of balsa wood. Looks just like a hobby plane accidental collision.

Very sad incident indeed. Prayers for all involved.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: butcherguy

They do this all the time. They simulate an attack, and depending on who is flying, they may have fighter escorts that are going to have to rejoin on the bomber at some point. I haven’t seen anything that makes me think there’s anything wrong about this. Davis-Monthan last year did something similar.

I have been to a number of WW2 commemorative air shows and they did nothing of the sort.
I think you would agree that it is stupid and dangerous.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: butcherguy

They do this all the time. They simulate an attack, and depending on who is flying, they may have fighter escorts that are going to have to rejoin on the bomber at some point. I haven’t seen anything that makes me think there’s anything wrong about this. Davis-Monthan last year did something similar.

I have been to a number of WW2 commemorative air shows and they did nothing of the sort.
I think you would agree that it is stupid and dangerous.

I have to agree too. What are they trying to show as a show here? Way too dangerous imho. Kinda why I thought it looked liked balsa wood planes in my above comment, even doing this kind of maneuvers is forbidden even in the scale hobby-craft world for shows.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: putnam6
I would like to know what circumstances lead to the two planes being in such close proximity. It isn’t like they are aerobatic aircraft.
Something is very wrong about this.

The pilot of the Cobra didnt see the B17. He cut the B17 in half, hitting it aft of the wings. Pilot error on the Cobra pilot.

Prayers.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: butcherguy

They do this all the time. They simulate an attack, and depending on who is flying, they may have fighter escorts that are going to have to rejoin on the bomber at some point. I haven’t seen anything that makes me think there’s anything wrong about this. Davis-Monthan last year did something similar.

I have been to a number of WW2 commemorative air shows and they did nothing of the sort.
I think you would agree that it is stupid and dangerous.

I've seen it done before but not as "scrambled" as that, from the video it looks more chaotic than anything I've ever seen. Been going to shows like Oshkosh, Sun n Fun, etc etc for decades.

What they usually do, as Zaph says, is they simulate strafing/attack runs and they simulate bomber escorts (presuming this was a simulated bomber escort).
Something was badly out of coordination here. The P63 pilot should have been fully aware of the position, trajectory, and intention of the B-17.

a reply to: butcherguy

Stupid and dangerous is Dawn Patrol. That’s a bunch of guys with Vans RVs they fly badly in formation.

Formation flying is, by its nature, dangerous. Without knowing the experience level of the P-63 pilot yet, I can’t say if this was stupid or not yet.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: butcherguy

Stupid and dangerous is Dawn Patrol. That’s a bunch of guys with Vans RVs they fly badly in formation.

Formation flying is, by its nature, dangerous. Without knowing the experience level of the P-63 pilot yet, I can’t say if this was stupid or not yet.

Let me get this straight, are you saying that this was formation flying now?
In your previous reply to me you alluded to it being a simulated attack.
People can look at the videos of the crash, it is obvious that what took place was dangerous.
If the interaction between the aircraft was planned (which you told me happens all the time) it is stupid.

originally posted by: scrog77
a reply to: putnam6

The more I watch it the more it looks deliberate?? Maybe not, I'm no expert, but couldn't the pilot of the smaller plane manoeuvred past the b17 ?

i thought that too.

those planes are flown, line of sight?

it's crazy.

the cbra seem to be going too fast to get into a formation, after reading the posts here.

at the presser the dude said they were experienced and vetted pilots..
so....idk.

The big plane looked to be in the blind spot for the smaller plane coming down on it. From the news source and this other angle. Some terrible news.

a reply to: butcherguyAgain I agree, it looks like a show boating maneuver gone wrong. And the sad thing is that this happens a lot at airshows. I dig the thrill, but let's keep it safe and 100% doable and close to zero fail. Sometimes the audience get's maimed, killed and destroyed all cause of show boating bs maneuvers.

a reply to: butcherguy

From the looks of the video, he was trying to join in formation with the B-17 by passing over the top of him in a left bank, to bleed off speed, and then join on their right side. So yes, they were going to end up in formation.

I never suggested or implied that it was an attack on the bomber. The bomber was performing a simulated attack on ground targets and the fighter was flying top cover for them.

In your opinion this was dangerous and stupid. These maneuvers are briefed and rehearsed before they’re flown in a show. Obviously they don’t train like the Thunderbirds, but they aren’t flying in close formation. Ninety-nine times out of a hundred they perform this join up, and absolutely nothing happens. Sadly, this time something did. It could have been something as small as the wrong altimeter setting in one of the aircraft.

a reply to: Ilikesecrets

Airshow accident rates are as close to zero as it’s possible to get. The last accident during a show, with the public present, was in Poland in 2019. There have been incidents and accidents on the way to shows, or during rehearsal, but not with the public present.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Ilikesecrets

Airshow accident rates are as close to zero as it’s possible to get. The last accident during a show, with the public present, was in Poland in 2019. There have been incidents and accidents on the way to shows, or during rehearsal, but not with the public present.

But why even attempt risky Aerial maneuvers at a airshow in the first place, when just a flyover would suffice? Showboating.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Ilikesecrets

Airshow accident rates are as close to zero as it’s possible to get. The last accident during a show, with the public present, was in Poland in 2019. There have been incidents and accidents on the way to shows, or during rehearsal, but not with the public present.

Here's a crowd that wished the airshow was safe 10 died and many injured. And this was no rehearsal either. And this is is after 2019 too.
And there are others.




Link to reno crash

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: butcherguy

From the looks of the video, he was trying to join in formation with the B-17 by passing over the top of him in a left bank, to bleed off speed, and then join on their right side. So yes, they were going to end up in formation.

I never suggested or implied that it was an attack on the bomber. The bomber was performing a simulated attack on ground targets and the fighter was flying top cover for them.

In your opinion this was dangerous and stupid. These maneuvers are briefed and rehearsed before they’re flown in a show. Obviously they don’t train like the Thunderbirds, but they aren’t flying in close formation. Ninety-nine times out of a hundred they perform this join up, and absolutely nothing happens. Sadly, this time something did. It could have been something as small as the wrong altimeter setting in one of the aircraft.

This is what you posted:

They do this all the time. They simulate an attack, and depending on who is flying, they may have fighter escorts that are going to have to rejoin on the bomber at some point.

It is one or the other.
You gave both options.
You did imply that the flying was deliberate.
Is it typical for a fighter flying cover for a bomber to ‘form up’ inside their fuselage?
I think that it isn’t typical to get close enough for that to happen.

Yes, it is my opinion that something was done here that was stupid, it was stupid because it was risky.
There is no need for something that risky to be done for entertainment.
This was not combat, it was a show.
You can support it. I don’t.

a reply to: butcherguy You're correct, I stand with you on this.

originally posted by: Ilikesecrets

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Ilikesecrets

Airshow accident rates are as close to zero as it’s possible to get. The last accident during a show, with the public present, was in Poland in 2019. There have been incidents and accidents on the way to shows, or during rehearsal, but not with the public present.

Here's a crowd that wished the airshow was safe 10 died and many injured. And this was no rehearsal either. And this is is after 2019 too.
And there are others.

Link to reno crash

That was not an air show, it was an air race. It was found that the elevator trim tab bolts had failed because some were the original ones installed when that plane was made. Mechanical failure not pilot failure.

Nothing is 100% safe.