The West’s Weapons Won’t Make Any Difference to Ukraine

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev
Do read it.

Double…

a reply to: vNex92

TextRussia had no choice but dragged into Ukraine by the US.

I hear a few of you guys claiming this all the time. tbh, I always get the image in my head of an abusive husband beating the piss out of his wife, well yelling ‘you made me do this’!

It’s the exact same mentality at least.

originally posted by: greendust

originally posted by: TrueAmerican
Well all I know is that I will never listen to those cannon fodders ever again, or perhaps, take the opposite of their advisement as the more likely outcome. It's just scary to think how many times all these supposed experts KEEP getting it wrong. The supposed WMD's in Iraq, for example. We keep listening to "experts," only to find ourselves involved with more and more foreign wars, huge budget deficits, and leaving countries totally destroyed. Sick of it, I tell ya.

But we won the Iraq war, remember? Obama said so.

And Afghanistan and the vietnam war.

a reply to: TrueAmerican

And after the entire destruction of Ukraine and most of its infrastructure, WHAT IN THE HELL WOULD BE WRONG WITH THAT? Like Moscow doesn't deserve it?

Let my try explain it to you! Moscow is a city, civilians live there too. Civilians that went onto the street against this war and were clubbed down and rounded up, too.

Wishing death on Moscow residents is just as wrong. Wake up. Waiting for you or someone to tell me their protesting was not enough and therefor it's okay for a cruise missile to hit downtown Moscow and kill a bunch of people just for cause.

Posts like yours make me want to throw up as much as posts about how vaccinated or unvaccinated should die or whatever.

a reply to: TDDAgain

I hear what your saying, but it’d be pretty easy to wish the same thing onto to Moscow to which they’ve done to Ukrainians cities. We’re only human after all… eye for an eye and all that.

But nah, best thing Ukraine can do is play the long game. Defend the homeland, shun and embarrass the invaders by forcing them to retreat… then just watch the Russian Federation destroy itself from within.

originally posted by: lordcomac

originally posted by: MykeNukem
a reply to: TrueAmerican

To be fair, hindsight is 20/20.

I like to think reality has that kind of humor, where soon people will say that referring to the 2020 election and how in hindsight is obvious how this one great republic fell to the powers of corruption

Hind sight. How very 2020.

Interesting insight.

I think it's telling us something too, lol.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

but it’d be pretty easy to wish the same thing onto to Moscow to which they’ve done to Ukrainians cities.

As a human -I have to write this to harden the idea I am not some computer bot- I understand the reasoning behind the urge for "payback" but I won't wish death on anyone involved. Because I differentiate between government and citizens and wishing death upon someone is just not the MO I am rolling. Bad juju.

The best think the Ukraine can do IMHO is to stop being thickheaded and finally go into talks. Russia has offered that in June and July and this was the answer (paraphrased): "We do not negotiate with Russia, only after we did some damage behind their borders and not before August". Other "experts" chimed in with (paraphrased): "It's normal to do that in a war since it gives better leverage [sic: if we kill a bunch of them too on their soil]".

So we have a situation where a non-NATO country is invaded and the NATO is doing their best to not get directly involved. But instead supply Ukraine with the means to fight the war with weapons and equipment. But just so much that the Ukraine does not tip to advantage. Why is that? Is it a smart move by NATO not to get involved? In the end, there is always more and better weapons and equipment flowing, money as well.

It's as if the West collectively started self flaggelation / punishment only to hurt it self and is prolonging the fighting unnecessary. Because Russia was ready for talks several times and just got Zelensky's middle finger. In my country, we call that escalating the situation and prolonging the war. That's why a lot of our own politicians initially ignored Zelensky help cries, on live TV.

Let's be honest, the Ukraine can not win this war without western help and they only get so much, out of good reason. So it's either NATO going in itself, what they can't legally, or going all in with the supply to end this war fast. Do you see that happening? I don't and therefor it tells me to be careful with partisan think like "Russian Federation will destroy itself from within". This can take years

The gist of all this is that clearly the war is being dragged out into the winter to do as much damage on all sides possible. The behavior of our own politicians points towards that, when they argue about nuclear power plants not getting prolonged in runtime even though we drive 200mph directly towards the concrete wall I already see on the horizon.

originally posted by: TrueAmerican

U.S. military equipment wouldn’t realistically help Ukrainians—or intimidate Putin.

By Samuel Charap, a senior political scientist at the Rand Corporation, and Scott Boston, a senior defense analyst at the Rand Corp.

January 21, 2022, 5:12 AM

foreignpolicy.com...

From time to time, it is necessary to look back and see what brilliance our think tanks offer up to our non-professional ears. I mean supposedly, these are the intellectual monsters of our time, especially when it comes to geopolitical strategy. And the RAND CORP., is one such think tank, and one of the more well known such think tanks.

Well, from think tank to stink tank, because every bit of evidence we have is that the west's weapons have most CERTAINLY helped Ukraine, and in a very big way. The recent Russian withdraw from Kherson marks one such point of Ukrainian gains, and in total contradiction to what the stink tankers offered up for analysis.

So what does this mean? It means their words are no more valuable than your own, and underscores the need to think for yourself from all available evidence. And preferably, without any preconceived notions. Because the RAND CORP most DEFINITELY GOT IT WRONG.

they're planning for years and decades ahead.

battle won doesn't equal war won.

Russia will not give up when it comes to the conflict in Ukraine, even if they'll have to nuke it. there's a reason some are pushing Zelensky towards peace talks, because either Ukraine will give up, or it's all just delaying the inevitable.

The wests weapons wont make a difference in Ukraine because the Ukrainians have been flogging them on the black market. Now I wonder who they are selling them to, well a few Isis fighters are fighting in Ukraine and whoops so are a few Taliban. The US has sent in active military to try and find these "donated" weapons. But funnily enough, nobody and I mean nobody is very interested in finding out what's happed to all the Billions the Ukraine has accepted?

a reply to: jedi_hamster

Ukraine the new American Afghanistan withdraw 2.0

a reply to: crayzeed

I doubt the presences of the US troops in Ukraine would helping the Ukrainians preventing the weapons from flooding to the underground markets.

Remember Afghanistan?
What did the US protect there?

originally posted by: greendust


But we won the Iraq war, remember? Obama said so.

You misspelled 'Bush'.

originally posted by: crayzeed
The wests weapons wont make a difference in Ukraine because the Ukrainians have been flogging them on the black market. Now I wonder who they are selling them to, well a few Isis fighters are fighting in Ukraine and whoops so are a few Taliban. The US has sent in active military to try and find these "donated" weapons. But funnily enough, nobody and I mean nobody is very interested in finding out what's happed to all the Billions the Ukraine has accepted?

Wrong. Your false propaganda is worthy of the "obvious troll is obvious" award for the day.

What is happening is that Russia is giving Ukraine huge caches of perfectly usable brand new artillery shells and Ukraine is turning around and giving them right back - in slightly used form - and often with bonus gifts of HIMARS rockets.

a reply to: crayzeed


" Senators urge Biden administration to give Ukraine advanced drones "




thehill.com...


I Wonder How Many of those Will be Sold on the Black Market Once the Ukrainians get their Hands on them ? I Bet Even Putin could buy a Few just to Back Engineer U.S. Drone Tech ? Hmm.......

a reply to: TrueAmerican

The reason they were wrong is because like a lot of think tanks, they focused on one part of the issue, not the whole.

If you limit your thinking to Putin's goal being to take and assimilate Ukraine, then the bigger picture. Putin wanted more than just land. He wanted to divide and further weaken NATO. He wanted to create a buffer zone from Europe and NATO. He wanted the to boost Russia's image on the world stage, elevate and remind the world the Russian bear is to be feared. He also wanted to appeal to the extreme nationalism that has become the norm to Russia. Make Russia Great Again, or whatever his shtick was.

He achieved the opposite. NATO not only woke up and united, it expanded by two more countries, one of them on Russia's border. Plus, it even got Switzerland discussing a possibility of joining NATO. FREAKING SWITZERLAND. Through years of corruption and incompetence, Russia's military has not only been humiliated, but has also taken heavy losses in men and equipment. In fact, thanks to Russia having so much of it's gear getting captured and seized by Ukraine, the Ukrainian military now has more tanks and other equipment now than they started with at the beginning of the war. Russia lost it's flagship to a country with a barely functioning navy. On the home front, young Russian men showed their support for the war by fleeing the in the hundreds of thousands when Putin started a partial draft. Their country is in a recession, they are international pariah, their military is a half broken laughing stock, and now have to rely of outdated, second rate hand-me-downs from North Korea and Iran. I wonder if the Russians are tired yet from all that "winning".

War is far more than the exchange of bullets and rockets.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Because the US is always innocent and always trying to frame Ukraine has by having independence? you dont when you join the grand EU federation.

originally posted by: greendust

But we won the Iraq war, remember? Obama said so.

Say who now

Mission accomplished George bush