It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
originally posted by: iterationzero
Can you define what you mean by "true atheists" and "hard-science materialists"? Do you mean here at ATS or in the world in general?
originally posted by: The GUT
originally posted by: iterationzero
Can you define what you mean by "true atheists" and "hard-science materialists"? Do you mean here at ATS or in the world in general?
Atheism in general and as Faith I mean. For example:
Both ends of the spectrum are certainties. Both "faith-based" as it were. I mean pretty much the same thing with "hard-science materialists."
Where might you land on that spectrum? And it's very, very cool when a member that's been around as long as you have comments and engages.
originally posted by: The GUT
originally posted by: iterationzero
Can you define what you mean by "true atheists" and "hard-science materialists"? Do you mean here at ATS or in the world in general?
Atheism in general and as Faith I mean. For example:
Both ends of the spectrum are certainties. Both "faith-based" as it were. I mean pretty much the same thing with "hard-science materialists."
Where might you land on that spectrum? And it's very, very cool when a member that's been around as long as you have comments and engages.
originally posted by: Quintilian
...
Calling bull# on the claims of any particular religion doesn't necessitate a 100% belief that god doesn't exist. Any more than calling bull# on claims of bigfoot, aliens or fairies requires a 100% belief in their non existence. It's more a way of noting the evidence doesn't support the claims.
...
Where Are the “Links”?
However, have not scientists found the necessary “links” between apelike animals and man? Not according to the evidence. Science Digest speaks of “the lack of a missing link to explain the relatively sudden appearance of modern man.”15 Newsweek observed: “The missing link between man and the apes . . . is merely the most glamorous of a whole hierarchy of phantom creatures. In the fossil record, missing links are the rule.”16
Because there are no links, “phantom creatures” have to be fabricated from minimal evidence and passed off as though they had really existed. That explains why the following contradiction could occur, as reported by a science magazine: “Humans evolved in gradual steps from their apelike ancestors and not, as some scientists contend, in sudden jumps from one form to another. . . . But other anthropologists, working with much the same data, reportedly have reached exactly the opposite conclusion.”17
Thus we can better understand the observation of respected anatomist Solly Zuckerman who wrote in the Journal of the Royal College of Surgeons of Edinburgh: “The search for the proverbial ‘missing link’ in man’s evolution, that holy grail of a never dying sect of anatomists and biologists, allows speculation and myth to flourish as happily to-day as they did 50 years ago and more.”18 He noted that, all too often, facts were ignored, and instead, what was currently popular was championed in spite of evidence to the contrary.
originally posted by: neoholographic
It's clear that there's nothing "natural" about the universe. When you're stuck inside of 3 dimensions of space and 1 of time, you believe that our "material" shell is the sum of all existence.
It's like thinking the parts created the whole. The parts are just icons or interfaces designed by intelligence that are avatars for information and higher dimensions.
First off, local realism is dead and it has to be. This is because what we call subatomic "particles" aren't particles in the physical sense. They don't have an independent physical reality. They come from invisible quantum fields and also have a wave like nature. So they can't be locally real.
Death by experiment for local realism
www.nature.com...
The Universe Is Not Locally Real, and the Physics Nobel Prize Winners Proved It
www.scientificamerican.com...
Here's some quotes from Heisenberg and Planck about this:
“I think that modern physics has definitely decided in favor of Plato. In fact the smallest units of matter are not physical objects in the ordinary sense; they are forms, ideas which can be expressed unambiguously only in mathematical language.”
― Werner Heisenberg
“[T]he atoms or elementary particles themselves are not real; they form a world of potentialities or possibilities rather than one of things or facts.”
― Werner Heisenberg
“As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clearheaded science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about the atoms this much: There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. . . . We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.”
― Max Planck
Say you have a quantum pool table and you have the 8 ball and 3 ball on the table. Quantum Mechanics violates the principle of locality. This is what Einstein called "spooky action at a distance." Locality says the 8 ball has to touch the 3 ball in order to affect the 3 ball. QM says the 8 ball could be on one end of the table and the 3 ball could be at another end of the table and if I turn the 8 ball clockwise, instantly the 3 ball will turn counterclockwise. There could be one in New York and one in San Diego and the same thing will happen instantly.
It also violates the principle of realism. Einstein asked is the moon still there when I'm not looking at it. Subatomic "particles" don't have independent states that exist as measured states prior to measurement. With classical objects, you can say the table is brown even when I'm not interacting with it but with quantum systems, you could only say it's brown when it's measured and observed.
How can anything be real in the physical sense if the basic building blocks of what we call matter isn't real in the physical sense? The Bible tells us the universe doesn't have an independent existence and that the Word(Jesus) holds all things together.
Colossians 1:16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
The Bible also tells us that things that are seen are made by things which do not appear.
Hebrews 11:3 “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”
Powerful stuff!
Look at this website, the things that can be seen are the reply button or the start a new thread button. These are just pixels on the screen that allow you to easily navigate through the website. Without design, we would not even be able to understand the content of this site. So these are all very important professions. For self-development, you can read this www.jpost.com... article that can help you with employment, and will be useful even for those who are interested in such c They were made by lines of computer code from an intelligent mind that do not appear. The Bible tells us the visible comes from the invisible and isn't some independent physical reality. Look how quantum fields are described:
These INVISIBLE FIELDS sometimes act like particles, sometimes like waves. They can interact with one another. They can even, some of them, flow right through us. The theory of quantum fields is arguably the most successful scientific theory of all time. In some cases, it makes predictions that agree with experiments to an astonishing 12 decimal places.
www.quantamagazine.org...
Let's get to the piece de resistance, THE GENETIC CODE!
Myself and many others on this forum have shown that the high level of engineering in the genome didn't and couldn't come from the primordial goo. Look at this article:
Harvard stores 70 billion books using DNA
www.computerworld.com...
70 billion books in a drop of DNA! They have also encoded DVD's and PDF files into DNA. Here you have a powerful storage medium, more powerful than any supercomputer, with information encoded on its sequence and they say non-intelligence sprung forth from the primordial goo and created a storage medium that the smartest engineers on the planet haven't duplicated. It strains credulity.
Sadly, a natural interpretation of evolution has become too big to fail. It's a way for people to deny God and to deny their spiritual nature. They say they don't need God because they have evolution and that's just a lie. It's a crutch for those still stuck in 3 dimensions of space and 1 dimension of time and they think that's the sum of all reality.
Hubert Yockey said this in his book Information Theory, Evolution and the Origin of Life.
“Information, transcription, translation, code, redundancy, synonymous, messenger, editing, and proofreading are all appropriate terms in biology. They take their meaning from information theory (Shannon, 1948) and are not synonyms, metaphors, or analogies.” (Hubert P. Yockey, Information Theory, Evolution, and the Origin of Life, Cambridge University Press, 2005)
The tools of information theory that we use to build modern civilization with error correcting codes and encoded information just ended up in the genome and came from the primordial goo. Who was in this goo, Nikola Tesla?
Let's look at the Genetic Code:
The A,C,G and T stands for adenine (A), cytosine (C), guanine (G), and thymine (T) and in RNA thymine changes to U(uracil).
What's the 1st thing you notice? If you look at the first 2 letters in each row, they are the same.
CONT'D
originally posted by: tkwasny
What kind of Mind comes up with the concept of space, then generates it?
Absolute non-existence cannot exist, by example of why, it self-annihilates the instant consciousness considers it, thus making non-existence - exist. It is now an existence and is no longer pure non-existence.