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Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 3

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posted on Dec, 22 2022 @ 08:24 AM
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Putin and Shoigu’s comments further illustrate that the Kremlin retains maximalist goals for the war in Ukraine that include: the recognition of illegally annexed territories, regime change of the Ukrainian government under the pretext of "denazification," control of Ukraine’s political and social character, and Western granting of Russia’s desired "security guarantees."


So those are the maximalist goals they had from the outset?

Conquering and holding all of Ukraine doesn't appear to be listed there. Yet how many times have we heard in Western media that is Russia's goal?

And no, control of Ukraine's political and social character doesn't require conquering the whole country.

I love when "our narrative has been a lie for the last 10 months" is casually admitted in one paragraph of endless commentary on the subject.



posted on Dec, 22 2022 @ 11:54 AM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Apparently it is under repair (a crane crashed into the deck a while back). While rare, there are occasional shipboard fires while under repair. Welding torches and such as well as flammable chemicals, I guess.

Cheers



posted on Dec, 22 2022 @ 12:13 PM
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a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Excellent research Face



posted on Dec, 22 2022 @ 12:13 PM
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Lukashenko responds to speculations about military drills in Belarus......................

"MINSK, 22 December (BelTA) – Belarusian President Aleksandr Lukashenko responded to speculations about military maneuvers in Belarus as he hosted a meeting to review the results of the inspection of the country's uniformed agencies, BelTA has learned.

“If you want peace, prepare for war. It was not invented by me and not by you either. By saying this I want to respond to all sorts of rumors circulating in our society, especially on the internet, about the movements of the Armed Forces of Belarus and the joint movements of the Armed Forces of Belarus and Russia,” the president said.

He recalled that in line with an earlier agreement Belarus and Russia created a joint military task force to respond to threats to the Union State. “We have been conducting exercises. Now they have a larger scale due to the current situation and threats. Therefore, we are conducting drills on our territory. We are sending the joint military task force and our Armed Forces to where we see fit. Period. There is no other plan, no conspiracy theories,” the Belarusian leader emphasized." eng.belta.by...


edit on 22-12-2022 by ufoorbhunter because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2022 @ 07:45 PM
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originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

NATO is a military alliance, nothing more.
Cheers


Come on, NATO is more than just a defensive organisation.............. When it suits Washington's agenda


Orbhunter ... no.

NATO, as organization, has no organic power. Any power or influence exerted by NATO is a product of the policies and agendas of the member nations. And most of the time, they can't all agree on anything besides mundane bits like a common standard for rifle ammunition.Cheers


As the illegal bombing campaign of Yugoslavia demonstrated, and as Gaddaffi and Libya would find out to their detriment (Gaddaffi was tortured and executed, while Libya is now a failed state)...not to mention NATO forces in Afghanistan under false pretences... the above is naive in the extreme. As is the delusion put forward around here that NATO is somehow a defensive alliance.

In recent times NATO has morphed from an organisation dedicated to the downfall of the Soviet Union, to a group devoted to controlling energy reserves in various parts of the world and keeping US hegemony (but failing). NATO's agenda is whatever pleases the US. Not everyone joins in, but whatever they do has to please the US (as the Nordstrom pipeline bombings demonstrate, this was likely carried out by the Brits, but was to the advantage of only one country...the US)


For "NATO" to present a threat to Russia, every NATO country would have to be on board with whatever such threat would be. And most NATO countries prefer things to be quiet because their military spending is lot less when there are no crises.Cheers


You might have missed that part where Russia is at war with the collective west at the moment, which includes NATO obviously (along with a gaggle of otherwise irrelevant backwaters/US lackeys, such as Australia).


This is why I wrote to not confuse national agendas with organizations like NATO. I can turn your statement around and claim that CSTO is a threat to the West because "of course" they're all in with the invasion of Ukraine. Except, they are not "all in". Some CSTO members are making clear they are opposed to Russia's (national agenda) war in Ukraine.


You could do that, but people would probably laugh at you, and especially at the idea of mighty Armenia taking over Europe.

The fact that the US convinced Europe to destroy its economy (particularly Germany) is at first perplexing. Especially as the US is now profiteering from the situation and openly enticing industry to the US, perhaps in a (forlorn) attempt to kick start its long gone production base that much of the world hoped to emulate (and that once upon a time made it a superpower instead of a laughing stock with a big, if somewhat incompetent, military).

They must have convinced them that they could "Gadhafi" the regime in Russia, which no doubt would leave it as something of a failed state (a US specialty no doubt) with its puppet financial institutions moving in and eventually have US companies behind the scenes, supplying Russian energy to whomever. Yet that is extremely unlikely to happen.

The higher profile war criminals behind US foreign policy going back at least to "Dubbya"s first term (Condie Rice for example)have been spouting the "Russia ebil" motif and talking about stopping the supply of energy to Europe, which is key to its prosperity. So it seems doing that and crippling Russia via sanctions was the first aim. They are certainly destroying economies in parts of Europe, but the sanctions have backfired to the extent that they are hurting almost everyone but Russia. The whole thing is becoming the familiar failure that US inspired neoliberal wars over the last 60 yrs or so always seem to be.

The idea was never to defeat Russia in this part of the world militarily. Not even the most deluded war mongering neocon in the State Dept/Pentagon believes that will happen (although they seem to have propagandised the western public into believing it). Even if the west dropped the pretence of this being a Russia/Ukraine conflict and massed their forces, they still aren't going to win. Anyone vaguely familiar with Russian military doctrine knows why this is so, and why genuinely trying to do this is a bad idea.

This is why the US is supplying enough to keep things going, but very careful to avoid direct conflict. They know they will lose, but the extent of a loss to the world's most nuclear capable forces could be far worse than that, for everyone. When the worlds longest serving US war hawk/war criminal (Kissinger) is urging caution and indicating that a diplomatic solution might be preferable, its worth taking notice.

What this debacle has done is force the 85%of the world that isn't "the west" (and some that are) to find means of trade that bypasses the US dollar and its puppet financial institutions, pronto, because of ever present threat of "sanctions" that the US wields far too readily. This was going to happen later this century anyway as other economies overtake the US and relegate it to a regional power at best. The way it has sped up now means that huge trade blocks with currencies backed by commodities leaving the dollar behind is likely to happen in this decade. Then, unfortunately for the US populace (who are not their regime and are no different to people anywhere) the "austerity" measures that have immiserated countless millions around the world will be an experience they can understand directly.

US involvement in the Maidan coup, selection of the resulting govt., the funding of extremist to promote conflict on Russia's borders ever since, the disingenuous signing of the Minsk agreements which Merkel has said were simply a ruse to allow the west time to arm Ukraine (before throwing it under the bus), the continual scuppering of diplomacy (the word doesn't seem to exist in the lexicon of certain US institutions, which wasn't very broad to begin with) makes it obvious that this is simply another planned US neoliberal/neocon war.

We all know how they end up.




posted on Dec, 23 2022 @ 01:04 AM
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a reply to: Quintilian

Your claims fail to explain the role of the EU in modern European events.

And NATO ... is just an organization. It does nothing without the consent of all member states.

Which means: what counts are the agendas and policies of the individual countries.

By the way. When countries (like Germany) make poor decisions affecting their national security ... that is not the fault of the USA. That is on the officials of the country that makes those decisions. Just like it is on Putin for making a poor decision to go to war without understanding the true state of his military forces.

Cheers
edit on 23-12-2022 by F2d5thCavv2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2022 @ 01:07 AM
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22 December Update



* Russian forces continued to conduct limited counterattacks along the Kreminna-Svatove line and Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations in the Kreminna area.

* Russian forces continued offensive operations in the Bakhmut and Avdiivka areas.

* Russian forces are increasing security measures in Kherson Oblast and Crimea out of fear of Ukrainian counteroffensive operations.

* A senior Russian official denied claims of a second wave of mobilization amidst ongoing crypto-mobilization efforts.

* Ukrainian partisans continued to target Russian occupation authorities.


More at URL above.

Cheers



posted on Dec, 23 2022 @ 05:02 AM
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a reply to: Quintilian



You might have missed that part where Russia is at war with the collective west at the moment, which includes NATO


lol. Even now that Russia has decided they are at war, NATO poses no threat to them. Because the West doesn't want to get their hands dirty. Russia is like a tiny but furious woman who gets drunk and picks a fight with you. Potentially dangerous, but you don't want to punch her, as a man. It would just make things worse for everyone.



posted on Dec, 23 2022 @ 06:44 AM
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.
edit on 23/12/22 by homerJ because: quote/relpy function didn't work . too drunk. will try tomoz



posted on Dec, 23 2022 @ 06:59 AM
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Russia is like a tiny but furious woman who gets drunk and picks a fight with you. Potentially dangerous, but you don't want to punch her, as a man. It would just make things worse for everyone.


So, a little drunk chick with nukes..thats all Russia is, god love her..get her inside to sleep it off..tell everybody sorry, they know how she is..wtfever



posted on Dec, 23 2022 @ 07:02 AM
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a reply to: didntasktobeborned

Yeah exactly. But point being, it's not wise to push someone too hard that situation. Someone might not be dangerous normally, but they can be dangerous when they become self-destructive.



posted on Dec, 23 2022 @ 07:19 AM
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message received..and I really hope she goes in and passes out soon, cuz her and that other one are gonna keep goin til it spills into town..Its all fun and games til the cops show up…I decided the hive wasn't for me a long time ago.a reply to: Cutepants



posted on Dec, 23 2022 @ 07:24 AM
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a reply to: didntasktobeborned

I feel we're taking the analogy too far though. I mean I don't how passing out would work. Also Ukraine is her daughter, she's been abusing her but now she's a teen and defending herself.
edit on 23-12-2022 by Cutepants because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2022 @ 09:28 AM
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a reply to: Cutepants



"collective west". Yeah, if Russia was really at war with the West, Putin would be in much deeper trouble than he already is.

And you are correct. NATO doesn't want to invade Russia or trade military blows with Russia. Some of the countries to Russia's south and China might have some ambitions in that regard ...

One of the key points of this war is this--

Russia wants to return to 19th century-style colonization of neighboring countries. Trouble is, we're all in the 21st century now. How long until Moscow lets go of the 19th century?

Cheers



posted on Dec, 23 2022 @ 10:00 AM
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a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

It`s 2022 and Russian set up statue of Stalin in Ukraine ...


Russians installed a Stalin monument in the occupied village of Olhynka near Donetsk's Amvrosiivka



posted on Dec, 23 2022 @ 10:50 AM
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Some big shipping companys are refusing to transport Russian oil if this tweet is true. Interesting is that Chinese Cosco shipping is also refusing.


link


link2


edit on 23-12-2022 by Kenzo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2022 @ 12:59 PM
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a reply to: Kenzo

1945 fixation. That flag with "79" on it is a reference to this:

www.niehorster.org...

In that corps, it was the 150th Division that stormed the Reichstag.

It was a glorious moment ... back then. In today's Ukraine, it has little relevance other than to provide another indicator that Russian thought is locked in past decades and unable to grasp current reality.

Cheers



posted on Dec, 23 2022 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: F2d5thCavv2


Ok so the 79 mean that, you are quick to notice the fine details .



Yes, glorious moment on then , we all agree about that . Now if the Russians could just get back to present day, and everybody would have easyer...


Russian future dont look good if they continue this , Chinese know it too .



posted on Dec, 23 2022 @ 08:57 PM
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a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

The combination of authoritarian regimes with limited foreign policy tools and their radical ideologies ensures the threat of military aggression and world wars remains. Putin's regime replaced the Nazis' hatred of Jewish people with The West and the LGBT community.

In Ukraine, the Russians are following the German (WW2), and Confederacy (U.S. Civil War) is mastering the art of delaying the end of a lost war. Also, the Russians throwing away their limited military resources on unsuccessful counterattacks robs them of the forces required to defend Crimea.



posted on Dec, 24 2022 @ 01:36 AM
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23 December Update



* The Russian military has more clearly been setting conditions for an offensive in northwestern Luhansk Oblast.

* Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is reportedly preparing to present a peace plan in February 2023, which could be timed to exploit a failed Russian winter offensive.

* Russian President Vladimir Putin’s renewed public appearances likely indicate that he has become more concerned about his popularity and image in Russia.

* Russian forces conducted at least two reconnaissance-in-force operations in northern and northeastern Ukraine on December 22-23.

* Ukrainian forces likely made tactical gains east and south of Bakhmut City over the past 72 hours.

* Russian forces are continuing to establish defensive positions in left-bank Kherson and Zaporizhia oblasts and are conducting defensive operations in southern Ukraine.


More at URL above.

Cheers




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