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Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 3

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posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 02:02 AM
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originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
The Russians are fighting for their national interest.


What was Russia's "national interest" in attempting to invade Ukraine? What was their interest in annexing Crimea and fomenting civil war in the east from 2014?

Initially, the 2022 invasion was to "denazify" and disarm Ukraine, which was essentially to replace the government with a Russian-supported puppet. That was their stared aims and objectives, therefore their interest. It was easy-peasy. Russia's interest was to create a subjugated dictatorship, under the control of Russian jackboots - like the good old days.

Then, when that went wrong, their "interest" was to take a very large portion of Ukraine, so that Russia could join up with Russian-supported Transnistria. This would leave Ukraine in control of perhaps a third of their country. Russia's interest was grabbing land.

Then, when that went wrong, Russia's interest was to annex four regions which they partially occupied, under the claims that these were Russian anyway. Their interest was grabbing land.

The current situation is that Russia does not control the land they have illegally annexed. It is unlikely that they will ever occupy these areas.

So, I ask... What is Russia's interest in persecuting this war, which they started. What is Russia gaining, except piles of corpses?

Don't say it's about NATO expansion. That's a red herring and lacks credible evidence or consistent narrative. If that was truly the intention, then the Russians are frighteningly stupid. The best way to strengthen NATO and increase calls to join its ranks, as Russia's invasion of Ukraine has shown, is to invade another country. I could have told them that, and would have waived my usual fee of a pint down the pub.



posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 03:37 AM
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Third, Ukraine needs to complete offensives to recapture all of its southern territory as enabling activities.

The liberation of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia provinces will be essential precursors to any Ukrainian campaign for Crimea.

Not only do these provide the only two ground axes that might be used to advance into Crimea, but they will also be critical for logistics, fire support from artillery and basing of aircraft.


Article

An unsuccessful Russian counter-offensive would delay Ukrainian efforts to regain Crimea. However, if the Russians opt for their version of Germany's actions at the Battle of the Bulge (1944), the same flaws will undo their efforts. Shoddy logistics, not controlling the air, unrealistic military and political goals, and underestimating opposing forces will come into play.



posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 05:10 AM
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originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
The Russians are fighting for their national interest.


What was Russia's "national interest" in attempting to invade Ukraine? What was their interest in annexing Crimea and fomenting civil war in the east from 2014?


For sure the Russian's have been giving out mixed signals over the special operation for the past year. maybe they are confused, maybe it's their strategy. Only they know. Yet taking back parts of Ukraine, namely the east and south is in their national interest as Sergei Markhov stated pre special operation on the BBC around this time last year.

I would class this moment in time as Russia's Suez moment. Britain was losing territory and influence around the world post WW2 yet there was a belief in Britain that power could be maintained by taking back the Suez Canal. I guess Russia is on a similar timeline and those in power see their chance. Will it work out or fail as did Britain, who knows? Yet it's a similar process maybe a sort of growing pains in the transition to a post colonial status.



posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 05:16 AM
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Russian radio intercepts "Out on the frontline, near the eastern Ukrainian city of Lyman, on 8 November at 15.10, a Russian serviceman called Andrey decided to ignore the orders of his superiors and call his mother with an unauthorised mobile phone.

“No one feeds us anything, mum,” he complained. “Our supply is #, to be honest. We draw water from puddles, then we strain it and drink it.”

Russian forces had been on the back foot in the Donetsk oblast for weeks. Lyman, taken by the Russians in May, was liberated by Ukrainian forces in October.

Two days before Andrey made his afternoon call back home, the Russian forces had “finally” started firing at Ukrainian positions with phosphorus bombs, he told his mother, but the promises of munitions that could turn the battle had come to nothing."

"Others shared with the Guardian, include a conversation on 6 November between a father and the colleagues of his son, Andrei, who had been killed serving in the 35th motorised rifle brigade, 5th company.

“Reinforcements: no; communication: no”, responded a soldier to questions from the grieving parent about the status of the men who had survived a Ukrainian onslaught. “They said we weren’t allowed to retreat. Otherwise, we may be shot.” www.theguardian.com...



posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 06:16 AM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Maybe a rule of thumb is that if your "interests" in doing a thing keep changing, then you're making it up as you go along?

One of the side-interests voiced by Russia, has been the "deep cultural links" between Russia and Ukraine. I would hazard a guess that many of those links are irreversibly broken now. You don't nurture friendship with someone by trying to kill them.
edit on 21/12/2022 by paraphi because: typo



posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 09:18 AM
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originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Maybe a rule of thumb





posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 10:01 AM
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originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: ufoorbhunter



One of the side-interests voiced by Russia, has been the "deep cultural links" between Russia and Ukraine. I would hazard a guess that many of those links are irreversibly broken now. You don't nurture friendship with someone by trying to kill them.


That's one persons perspective. I can see where you are coming from. Yet from a Russian perspective southern and eastern Ukraine really does belong to them. The whole region was developed by Russia. New Russia and the creation of new cities. In addition to which the current ethnic balance is a new invention. prior to WW2 most of the region was populated by Greeks, Jewish, Turkish and Tartars, Germans, Rumanians, etc. Ukrainians are relatively new comers to the southern coastal zones.



posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 12:21 PM
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originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
prior to WW2 most of the region was populated by Greeks, Jewish, Turkish and Tartars, Germans, Rumanians, etc. Ukrainians are relatively new comers to the southern coastal zones.


you should maybe look at a historical map. prior to ww2 ukraine had the same southeast geogprahy on the black and azov seas it was the western borders that were different. the western oblasts were part of poland, romania and moldova. there was also additional land that is now in russia that was part of eastern ukraine prior to ww1. it is amazing the things people say without checking the facts about the topic....
edit on 21-12-2022 by LouisCypher because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter

While I respect your point of view, I just don't agree with you.

Ukraine's borders were established and agreed. Russia's actions are an affront. If you roll with Russia's flawed logic, then half of France should be returned to England, except the bits which belong to the Danes. Kaliningrad (Königsberg) should be returned to Germany, and hundreds of other examples...

My point is that cannot just arbitrarily redraw borders because of at some point in history the land may have belonged to you. It's a ridiculous position to take.



posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 01:06 PM
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a reply to: paraphi

Indeed.

Can we have America back, too?

Actually, on second thoughts......



posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 01:14 PM
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Just watched Mr. Zalensky escorted into the house by the President..That man is in pain. He's humble and he's scared…Ive never seen a world leader on US ground that meek..I know he's begging for help and it wouldn't make sense to be a jerk, and I know he's an actor/politician, You guys that Im talking to know who You are..watch that man careful as he gets out of that truck..Watch bidens hands and arms and Zolenskys body language..What the hell are we seeing?

Oh yeah, an academy award winning performance by a nazi Jew actor/politician..I see a real person..maybe Im naive.

I do NOT want to send Ukraine weapons and money..I of course want to send airstrikes on Russian military targets..Somebody explain to me what we just watched..

"We will make sure he gets a command coin." really? An IOU..guess it was shameless theatre..'friend in the other thread is correct.'


edit on 21-12-2022 by didntasktobeborned because: .duped again



posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 02:38 PM
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originally posted by: didntasktobeborned
I do NOT want to send Ukraine weapons and money..I of course want to send airstrikes on Russian military targets..Somebody explain to me what we just watched..


how do you propose to do the airstrikes on russian targets i would like to know your plan?



posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 03:29 PM
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originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

My point is that cannot just arbitrarily redraw borders because of at some point in history the land may have belonged to you.



That's being a little politically correct. Anyway it happens all the time. I don't see TPTB (the Yanks / West) arguing that the Israeli's can't continually redraw their borders. Indeed they back it! One could say what's good for the goose is good for the gander



posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 04:01 PM
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Well, here in the states we have the USN, and the USAF, both have aircraft,..see where Im going with this..maybe they'll use google earth because Russia is so hard to find and Putin is so good at hiding..Or Starlink..yeah, they might all get chipped up by Elon and HE can send the right coordinates to our squadrons..How long was that initial convoy some 300 days ago? like it couldn't be seen from Uranus or anything..How much of a plan would we really need?..You mean one to satisfy the swamp? Sorry, that one will be for You to figure..

a reply to: LouisCypher


edit on 21-12-2022 by didntasktobeborned because: .



posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 04:28 PM
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a reply to: didntasktobeborned

so you are saying the usa should attack russia instead of supplying ukraine?



posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 04:35 PM
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Yes. A year ago. When Putin started threatening us and dictating strategy to Washington..


a reply to: LouisCypher



posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 04:59 PM
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a reply to: didntasktobeborned

well the war would have been over in march if we were involved....



posted on Dec, 21 2022 @ 05:00 PM
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a reply to: LouisCypher


One way or the other..I agree.



posted on Dec, 22 2022 @ 12:23 AM
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21 December Update



* Putin and Shoigu reiterated maximalist Russian aims for the war in Ukraine.

* Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky traveled to Washington, DC on December 21.

* Russian and Ukrainian forces continued counterattacks along the Svatove-Kreminna line.

* Russian forces continued offensive operations in the Bakhmut and Donetsk City areas.

* A Ukrainian official confirmed that Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted to establish control over the Dnipro delta islands.

* Russian officials intensified law enforcement crackdowns to deter partisan activities and target partisan sympathizers.


More at URL above.

Cheers



posted on Dec, 22 2022 @ 07:52 AM
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Those silly Russian military guys smoking too close to the equipment.................... Again!

"Russia’s only aircraft carrier catches fire
A fire broke out on Russia’s only aircraft carrier earlier today, Russian state media reported.

The Admiral Kuznetsov, a flagship of the Russian navy, suffered a “minor” fire while docked at the Zvyozdochka shipyard in the Arctic port of Murmansk, located in the far north-west of Russia, according to reports by the Russian state-owned Tass and Ria Novosti news agencies." www.theguardian.com... e-including-patriot-air-defence-missiles?filterKeyEvents=false&page=with:block-63a454288f08c23d9f5d6062#block-63a454288f08c23d9f5d6062




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