Question about quantum entanglement

I’m not a physicist, but would love to have one chime in here.

As far as I understand it two entangled particles “communicate” instantly even when at opposing ends of the known universe. That spooky interaction at a distance greatly disturbed Mr. Einstein because of his faster than the speed of light limitation.

What is the current consensus of that entangled interaction in the physics community? Supposedly Chinese scientists measured the “speed” of entanglement and clocked it at 3 trillion meters per second. About 4 x the speed of light.

That doesn’t sound right at all. Way too slow for instant “communication” for the entangled particles.

Also, if it’s really instantaneous communication are those two particles in reality never separated, therefore rendering space an illusion?

A layman would like to know. If I misstated anything, please correct me to better understand the subject.

Link to Chinese measurements: futurism.com...

a reply to: CyberBuddha

That spooky interaction at a distance greatly disturbed Mr. Einstein because of his faster than the speed of light limitation.

I can't help with your primary question.

With regard to Mr. Einstein and his equations I would offer this advice.

At the time Einstein postulated his equations, there were two methods being discussed on how to get a man to the moon.

One was a cannon.

Einstein is correct only if one is weighed down with fuel. A Buzzard collector could work quite well to go faster than light because it is the fuel load that stops you currently according to the equations.

Einstein led us down the garden path to nowhere ... deliberately.

P

a reply to: CyberBuddha

1 would think space would exist between the 2 or more possibly same entangled particles or particle bundles.
Particle bundles signifying body forms or attachments to body forms w/ added consciousness.
The spaces between the entangled particles would still be connected like strings in theory.
The consciousness would be as 1 but operating simultaneously within the entangled particles. The entanglements if in particle bundles that have became body forms would share the information picked up by the entanglements memories and then added to the consciousness. Thus allowing all entangled to operate as 1...

a reply to: pheonix358

I think you mean a Bussard collector. It might be that dreaded autocorrect.

The problem with a Bussard collector is that it doesn't work efficiently until going a high percentage of the speed of light. How is the ship going to store enough fuel to decelerate to orbital speed then accelerate to cruise speed again?

Fuel for getting up to cruise speed is only half the problem when you get there.

About the entangled particles. There is ether no space actually separating them or the two particles are one existing in two points in space at the same time. Anybody have a better answer?

Brah it explains the communication of the spirit.God speaks to us through the spirit on a time measurement man can't comprehend.Quantum intanglement just explains the reason why prayer works. All events in space time or quantum continum have a mathematical equation , wether we comprehend it or not.Thus why God hears our prayers, it's beyond our mortal realm of mathematics.None the less all possible outcomes will play out until God The Father calls Time Out!!!!!
eply to: CyberBuddha

a reply to: CyberBuddha

einstein was a bum who created weapons of mass destruction.
the media loves him, because, well, the media is vastly ethnocentric.

i do not care what anyone says, no, we did not need the b0mb.
so if you ask me, einstein was a skumbag who created the b0mb.

a reply to: drongosrevenge

You do realize that we are still using the Purple Heart medals that were made for the invasion of Japan?

The predicted casualties of a ground invasion were very many times the casualties of the atomic bombs.

The atomic bombs saved many lives both American and Japanese.

I also think you mean Oppenheimer more then Einstein.

a reply to: beyondknowledge

How is the ship going to store enough fuel to decelerate to orbital speed then accelerate to cruise speed again?

Thanks for the correction.

The thought experiment is only to get us to light speed, you want brakes with that order, you want it all! Lol.

P

One problem with traveling faster than light is mass. The faster you go, the more energy you need to push the mass to go even faster. This curve tapers off at the speed of light where it requires an infinite amount of energy for any mass to reach the speed of light.

If somehow we can negate or counteract the effects of mass, then breaking the light barrier becomes a lot more feasible. With the work at CERN, it looks like the theory of the Higgs Boson is getting close to defining what mass is.

With the sub atomic world still a murky place, maybe there are ways around the physical limitations as we know it? Tachyon's are another sub atomic theory that travels faster than light.

The photon does not have any mass, which is why it can reach the speed of light. As for my take on what the photon actual is, see more as a wave function that is passed through the bouncing electrons. Could be wrong?

As for Quantum entanglement, maybe it depends on just what quantum parts are entangled for the specific physical limitations on it?

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: beyondknowledge

How is the ship going to store enough fuel to decelerate to orbital speed then accelerate to cruise speed again?

Thanks for the correction.

The thought experiment is only to get us to light speed, you want brakes with that order, you want it all! Lol.

P

What? So you are not wanting to stop. Look around. Meet the local people. Start an interstellar war by one of the crew dishonoring one of the high officials relatives. Then have to run for home with all scanners and weapons pointed aft in case they come after you.

What kind of space adventurer are you?

Always remember to approach and depart from a star system in a random direction. It is a lot harder for them to find your home world that way.


I estimate that the fuel tanks need to be at least 3 or 4 times what is needed to accelerate to cruise speed. You will have to decelerate all that fuel needed to get back up to speed after the 'exploration'.

a reply to: CyberBuddha

I think at least principally you might need to dissuade yourself of the idea that quantum mechanics are somehow limited by or operate in normal space time as we know it.
3 trillion mps seems like a near incalculable figure that they'd almost have to extrapolate from a "simple" baseline test IE measure the time it took to register a change over the range of 100km and multiply that number out by a given formula.
Then also consider the observer interaction effect with quantum mechanics and you've got yourself a whole big pile of potential mathematical errors of inaccuracy.

As to the second part of your question, entangled particles are connected by a force that we don't yet understand. I'd consider their connection similar to that of a standard depiction of wormholes. Two end points that would be observable and a bridging tunnel that is unseen.

This is how I suspect single pane glass displays/terminals will work in the future. Both their signal and power sources beings entangled quarks or what have you, never needing any visible hardware as it is housed off site in an entanglement facility (server farm).

originally posted by: CyberBuddha
I’m not a physicist, but would love to have one chime in here.

As far as I understand it two entangled particles “communicate” instantly even when at opposing ends of the known universe. That spooky interaction at a distance greatly disturbed Mr. Einstein because of his faster than the speed of light limitation.

What is the current consensus of that entangled interaction in the physics community? Supposedly Chinese scientists measured the “speed” of entanglement and clocked it at 3 trillion meters per second. About 4 x the speed of light.

That doesn’t sound right at all. Way too slow for instant “communication” for the entangled particles.

Also, if it’s really instantaneous communication are those two particles in reality never separated, therefore rendering space an illusion?

A layman would like to know. If I misstated anything, please correct me to better understand the subject.

Link to Chinese measurements: futurism.com...

May I suggest "String Theory for Dummies"? I got to the title page and got confused so I suppose that means I'm not a dummy cause its not for me I'm jk

a reply to: kwakakev

Yiu are correct in asserting that you need more energy to propel mass faster and faster.

So, the obvious solution is to reduce mass to zero.

The formula looks like: F = ma

So you make a force against zero mass and get infinite acceleration.

No Einstein needed!!

But think what that means: Gravity is the pressure of the rest of the universe upon one’s self.

So isolate yourself that peer pressure and you are Star Trekking!!!

🍺

a reply to: CyberBuddha

The team then observed the first half of the entangled pair and waited to see how quickly the other half assumed the same state ... This is a lower speed limit, meaning as we collect more precise data, you can expect that number to get larger.

It's a lower limit because the speed is instant, the time you wait is irrelevant, the moment you measure the particle it will always be correlated to the other particle, assuming the other particle was measured first. Of course the obvious explanation is that there are "hidden variables" which allow the particles to agree on a spin before either particle is measured, so they wouldn't be communicating anything faster than light. But there are complicated reasons why we know that isn't the case... well there is one other possible loop hole, which is Super Determinism.

Super Determinism basically means you can predict the entire future of the universe if you know the exact properties of the Big Bang or however the Universe started because the future depends on the past and there is no real randomness involved, the randomness of QM would be an illusion. It would also mean our decision to carry out one experiment vs another is already predetermined, the measurements we make in those experiments are predetermined, and the results we get are predetermined, which calls into question the entire scientific process.

Most scientists seem to think that true randomness is a feature of quantum mechanics, so the future doesn't entirely depend on the past. I also tend to prefer that explanation, but it also has some very weird consequences, like spooky action at a distance, which requires an instantaneous transfer of information. That implies there is something very strange about the underlying mechanics of our universe. PBS Space Time made a great video on this topic not long ago, it should answer your questions about entanglement, or just make you more confused lol.

a reply to: drongosrevenge

Oppenhiemer created the bomb.

Not Einstein.

Get your facts straight.

Great question. a reply to: CyberBuddha

quantum entanglement

You mean the Theory of Quantum Entanglement .

originally posted by: CyberBuddha
I’m not a physicist, but would love to have one chime in here.

As far as I understand it two entangled particles “communicate” instantly even when at opposing ends of the known universe. That spooky interaction at a distance greatly disturbed Mr. Einstein because of his faster than the speed of light limitation.

What is the current consensus of that entangled interaction in the physics community?

There isn't a consensus. What happens with entangled particles depends on the interpretation of quantum mechanics and we all agree that there is no agreement on which of the interpretations is correct, if any. In some interpretations, there isn't any communication at all, it's simply a correlation, not a communication, so I would suggest you discount the explanation of "communication" as only one possibility, and consider the other possibilities that it's merely a correlation, as stated by Everett, proponent of the Everett interpretation of Quantum Mechanics:

Everettian Interpretations

"In other words, there exists only a correlation between the two states of the two systems.

If you are interested in the lack of consensus on the interpretation of quantum mechanics, physicist Sean Carroll explained that. Click the link in my signature and watch the Sean Carroll video linked in the opening post titled "Quantum Mechanics (an embarrassment) - Sixty Symbols"

Supposedly Chinese scientists measured the “speed” of entanglement and clocked it at 3 trillion meters per second. About 4 x the speed of light.

That doesn’t sound right at all.

ChaoticOrder's answer on this part of your question is correct. The nitty-gritty detailed real physics gives different answers than over-simplified physics explanations. So even if it's "instantaneous", we can't really prove that precisely in any experiment, due to experimental error. The best we could do is measure tighter and tighter correlations in time, and say instantaneous can't be ruled out by such measurements.

We do the same thing with the mass of a photon, which in simplified explanation we say is "zero". But in detailed scientific analysis, there is probably no experiment which can prove it's exactly zero, rather increasingly accurate experiments put tighter and tighter limits on the mass such that if it's not exactly zero, it's very close to zero (and most likely it probably is exactly zero, we just can't prove that in experiment).

a reply to: CyberBuddha

To try and put it simply, If you work on the assumptions that:

1. Space-time is 'Complex' (mathematically speaking), and

2. There are higher physical dimensions above the 3 + 1 dimensions that we interact with daily, then

Entanglement can occur at speeds faster than light by the use of 'Zero Length' complex pathways that occur in higher dimensions that we are unable to perceive. These pathways connect every point in space to every other point in space.

So, to our eyes, it appears that communication between two entangled objects occurs instantaneously regardless of the distance separating them, and if we measure the physical separation between the objects we may find that light would have to travel faster than it does for this to be possible. However, in the higher dimension, the information is travelling along a zero length path (at the speed of light) to the (other) entangled object. Thus we see instantaneous information transfer between entangled objects, but do not have to break the speed of light in order to distribute this information between them.