Texas woman given traffic ticket says unborn child counts as second passenger

A pregnant woman in Texas told police that her unborn child counted as an additional passenger after being cited for driving alone in a high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lane, offering up a potentially clever defense for motorists navigating the legal landscape following the supreme court’s striking down of nationwide abortion rights last month.

Brandy Bottone of Plano, Texas, tried to fight a ticket for driving with only one passenger in an HOV lane – which requires at least two people in the car – by arguing that her unborn baby should count as her second passenger.

“[The officer] starts peeking around. He’s like, ‘Is it just you?’ And I said, ‘No there’s two of us?’” Bottone recounted to NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth. “And he said, ‘Well where’s the other person?’ And I went, ‘Right here,’” pointing to her stomach.

Source

And so it begins. Anyone with even half a brain could see there would be unintended consequences when states started passing laws that codified life starting at conception. And this is just the start.

It's only a matter of time before cases are brought forward where a pregnant woman tries to declare her unborn child as a dependent, or demands child support, or tries to take out a life insurance policy on the fetus.

So let's see if states like Texas actually believe life starts at conception or if that principle flies out the window the second money is on the line.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254

Brandy Bottone of Plano, Texas, tried to fight a ticket for driving with only one passenger in an HOV lane – which requires at least two people in the car – by arguing that her unborn baby should count as her second passenger.

Good try...

HOV lane is for at least two drivers or bus, not just one other person unless you are suggesting her unborn had a drivers license. Its purpose is to create ridesharing, not a lane for mom and her kids.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I'm fairly certain people were dumb long before this.

It's certainly not making anybody appear smarter.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Xcalibur254

Brandy Bottone of Plano, Texas, tried to fight a ticket for driving with only one passenger in an HOV lane – which requires at least two people in the car – by arguing that her unborn baby should count as her second passenger.

Good try...

HOV lane is for at least two drivers or bus, not just one other person unless you are suggesting her unborn had a drivers license. Its purpose is to create ridesharing, not a lane for mom and her kids.

So the 12 year old riding with you doesn't qualify as person #2?

What if your child is 22 years old and can't get a driver's license? (Disabled)

originally posted by: Xcalibur254

A pregnant woman in Texas told police that her unborn child counted as an additional passenger after being cited for driving alone in a high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lane, offering up a potentially clever defense for motorists navigating the legal landscape following the supreme court’s striking down of nationwide abortion rights last month.

Brandy Bottone of Plano, Texas, tried to fight a ticket for driving with only one passenger in an HOV lane – which requires at least two people in the car – by arguing that her unborn baby should count as her second passenger.

“[The officer] starts peeking around. He’s like, ‘Is it just you?’ And I said, ‘No there’s two of us?’” Bottone recounted to NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth. “And he said, ‘Well where’s the other person?’ And I went, ‘Right here,’” pointing to her stomach.

Source

And so it begins. Anyone with even half a brain could see there would be unintended consequences when states started passing laws that codified life starting at conception. And this is just the start.

It's only a matter of time before cases are brought forward where a pregnant woman tries to declare her unborn child as a dependent, or demands child support, or tries to take out a life insurance policy on the fetus.

So let's see if states like Texas actually believe life starts at conception or if that principle flies out the window the second money is on the line.

Somehow I feel like the entire judicial structure from the ground up is just trolling the population to emphasize how incredibly tedious the whole "passenger" concept is.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254

It's only a matter of time before cases are brought forward where a pregnant woman tries to declare her unborn child as a dependent, or demands child support, or tries to take out a life insurance policy on the fetus.

So let's see if states like Texas actually believe life starts at conception or if that principle flies out the window the second money is on the line.

It is life is it not? Insurance companies can set their own rules to include unborn if they like. The whole child support thing is already there in alimony/spousal support. A lot of factors go into the calculator they use to include if she is pregnant.

Nice try again

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I don't understand why you are bringing up unintended consequences. The power of deciding these laws has been returned to the states. What you are describing in these possible lawsuits is how the law is written.

Anyone with even half a brain could see that when a state is allowed to make new laws, they are going to be challenged, changed, and more laws sometimes added to adapt to the changes.

You sound like you don't like the states deciding things in laws that they have the powers to make. Powers not covered in federal law.

Do they have a classification for 3/5 People? 😎🚬

originally posted by: carewemust


So the 12 year old riding with you doesn't qualify as person #2?

What if your child is 22 years old and can't get a driver's license? (Disabled)

It really depends on the state, but she can go to court and prove she is pregnant and get the ticket drop if the state HOV laws are such as any other.

a reply to: Xcalibur254
This probably wasn't the first time someone tried this. In this case, I'm guessing it was just someone taking the opportunity to make a political statement.

Since I'm male, I'll go with "voices in my head" as qualifying me to drive in the HOV lane. It's a frikin' party in the car!

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Interesting points.

Texas doesn't have a personal income tax, but many stares do. In a State that does have PIT, it would be an interesting argument to make: claiming an unborn fetus as a dependent, especially in the case of an unwed mother seeking Head of Household filing status (and thus a much more favorable tax rate).

This scenario will be even more important in those state that have extremely restrictive, or even outright total banning, laws regarding abortions.


If the State can force a woman to carry her pregnancy to full term, can the State also justifiably deny that the "child-to-be" she is thus forced to physically support not her dependent?

And, since the child is literally physically dependent, at least until birth, for its life, should not that dependence be sufficient for the woman to claim head of Household tax status?

ETA:

Then there is the principle of "Conformity" to consider, wherein each State has to decide whether, and how, to "conform" to federal tax law as enforced by the IRS.

This is getting interesting!

If the government is known for anything, it is not consistently or rationality. When abortion was legal people got long prison terms for murdering them. We attack other countries for human rights abuses while giving blacks* syphilis and fake treatments - see tuskegee experiment.

* my grandpa was a proud black man, who would state he was 'all american' when whites would use the phrase african-american in his presence.

In the totality of the abortion debate; driving in the HOV lane with a fetus, claiming a fetus as a dependent, and child support for a fetus are very small potatoes. As unintended consequence go they aren't even worth mentioning. Those that are trying to ban abortions will simply agree to these "consequence" because they are meaningless.

Insurance companies are private entities; they can deny coverage to anyone they do not want to take a risk on. More likely if you want life insurance for your fetus they will gladly sell that to you for a price that makes them a profit... just like with any other form of insurance.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Xcalibur254

Brandy Bottone of Plano, Texas, tried to fight a ticket for driving with only one passenger in an HOV lane – which requires at least two people in the car – by arguing that her unborn baby should count as her second passenger.

Good try...

HOV lane is for at least two drivers or bus, not just one other person unless you are suggesting her unborn had a drivers license. Its purpose is to create ridesharing, not a lane for mom and her kids.

I don't know the laws in other states; but in NY the other person does not need to be a driver; they just need to be a person.



I was stopped all the time by LOE when my kids were babies and in car seats. I drove a little yellow two door sports car at the time and you could not easily see into the back seat; and the yellow color attracted attention. The LOE would swagger up to my car thinking they caught themselves another punck kid but as they passed the back seat window they would finally see my babies and their whole demeanor would change from coyboy to humble society protecter. The exchange would end with them apologizing to me and then safely helping me back into traffic.

a reply to: Mantiss2021

claiming an unborn fetus as a dependent

A dependent has to have a birth certificate issued in their name .

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Mantiss2021

claiming an unborn fetus as a dependent

A dependent has to have a birth certificate issued in their name .

Which would presume, therefore, that from a legal standpoint, life, as determined by dependence upon another for its existence, does not begin until birth. As certified by the issuance of a Birth Certificate.

Which, of course, legally undercuts the argument that life begins at conception; which is the core argument against abortion.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Xcalibur254

Brandy Bottone of Plano, Texas, tried to fight a ticket for driving with only one passenger in an HOV lane – which requires at least two people in the car – by arguing that her unborn baby should count as her second passenger.

Good try...

HOV lane is for at least two drivers or bus, not just one other person unless you are suggesting her unborn had a drivers license. Its purpose is to create ridesharing, not a lane for mom and her kids.

It's not that way in Washington state, where it just takes 2 or more people in the vehicle, and they don't have to all be drivers or have a license. Kids count as well. The unborn is another matter. I'm sure this wouldn't work, at least not without a lawyer and a sympathizing judge .

originally posted by: Mantiss2021

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Mantiss2021

claiming an unborn fetus as a dependent

A dependent has to have a birth certificate issued in their name .

Which would presume, therefore, that from a legal standpoint, life, as determined by dependence upon another for its existence, does not begin until birth. As certified by the issuance of a Birth Certificate.

Which, of course, legally undercuts the argument that life begins at conception; which is the core argument against abortion.

Valid observation. The administration doesn't typically issue conception certificates.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Guess laws that believe life starts at fertilization better start issuing conception certificates then. If they state an embryo and fetus are babies and individual from the mother. Let them claim them, insure them and receive child support if necessary.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Xcalibur254

Brandy Bottone of Plano, Texas, tried to fight a ticket for driving with only one passenger in an HOV lane – which requires at least two people in the car – by arguing that her unborn baby should count as her second passenger.

Good try...

HOV lane is for at least two drivers or bus, not just one other person unless you are suggesting her unborn had a drivers license. Its purpose is to create ridesharing, not a lane for mom and her kids.

HOV here has nothing to with the other person having a licence, it's simply for having another occupant in the vehicle.