Last Trumpet is the last sign prior to the Rapture

a reply to: visitedbythemThat was very interesting, thanks. I too feel we will see things fall and fail in rapid succession very soon, maybe this fall at the earliest. Then we will see a mass malady and chaos continuing into early next year by then the people will be beaten and downtrodden to their lowest. It will be dark times indeed.
This is going to happen because it's the answer to the question, why is nobody lifting a finger to do something?

I have also studied eschatology for some time, but I respectfully disagree on some points made here.

Most scholars have concluded that Matthew 24 is referring to Christ's Second Coming at the end of the Tribulation.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to provide more right now. Dinner and family obligations. I'll be back, though. In the meantime, anyone who is interested, I suggest googling Jack Kelley's site Grace Thru Faith. It has many resources around this topic. Fantastic Bible scholar.

The rapture is just wishful thinking for those who want to escape the trials and tribulations reserved for us in the end times.

The idea of a rapture emerged in the 1830’s.
John Nelson Darby was the first to teach and introduce this idea to his congregation. He is the founder of the group later known as The Plymouth Brethren. They were conservative, nonconformist Protestants who broke away from the Church of Ireland.

Darby’s teachings made its way across Europe and eventually to America. It gave rise to a theological view known as Dispensationalism.

These views were picked up and popularized by C. I. Scofield in the late 1800’s. He produced a Bible with references (even though he had no formal training in theology) known as the Scofield Reference Bible in 1909. It was distributed in England and America and became the primary source for Protestants to understand the Bible. This became the almost unquestioned view by many Protestants in America.

This spread the idea of rapture teaching further and further. Scofield became a pastor in Dallas, TX and helped found Dallas Theological Seminary. It was popularized and spread further by D. L. Moody and his Moody Bible Institute. Moody invited many of the Plymouth Brethren to teach in his Bible schools. From these institutions, literature, and the preaching of these men and others, this dispensational, pre-tribulation rapture theology immersed itself in American culture.

These ideas embedded themselves deeper into the culture through other media, through books and movies, such as the Left Behind series.

There are two primary passages where Rapture theology is purported to have emerged: Matthew 24: 40-41 and Thessalonians 4: 13-18.

To understand the context of Matthew 24: 40-41, we need to read verses 36-39. Jesus says, “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.”

He says in verse 39. The people were unaware of the judgment coming until the flood, and the flood came and swept them all away. Who got swept away in the days of Noah? The unbelievers. The wicked sinners. Who remained when the flood came? Noah and his family. They were left here. The wicked were swept away. Jesus says this is the way it will be when the Son of Man returns.

Return to the verses often used in support of the rapture, verses 40 and 41.

“Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.”

Jesus just told us that His coming will be just like the days of Noah. The wicked were taken away, swept away. The righteous remained. Then He says that two men will be in the field, and one will be taken, one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill, and one will be taken away and one left. So question: “Who is taken and who is left?” The most natural, common sense answer from the text is the believer is left and the unbeliever is taken away. It is a picture of judgment. They are cast away from the presence of the Lord.

The only reason one could read it the opposite and say the believer is taken away and the unbeliever remains, is because that person already has the internal bias of a rapture ideology in his or her head before reading the passage. The entirety of the passage itself and its full context gives no reason to interpret it in that way.

In fact, when reading the parallel text from Luke of the Matthew passage, we clearly see what happens to those who are taken away. “’I tell you, in that night there will be two in bed. One will be taken and the other left. There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken and the other left. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.’ And they said to him, ‘Where, Lord?’ He said to them, ‘Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.’” (Luke 17:34-37) Luke shows that those taken away aren’t raptured to glory; they are delivered over to the death that awaits them.

The second passage often used to support rapture theology is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

Paul writes, “But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.”

In verse 16 he says, “the Lord will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God.”

This is describing the announcing of the king’s return. Paul says “the dead in Christ will rise first.” Thus, the resurrection of the dead is going to happen when Jesus returns. This is when the great white throne of judgment will occur (Revelation 20), and sheep will be separated from the goats (Matthew 25).

But notice Paul then pivots to those who are still alive in verse 17. He says they “will be caught up together with them.” Who is the them? The dead in Christ. The dead in Christ will rise from the dead and meet the Lord in the air, and then those alive will meet him in the air.

Then what? Will we whisk away to Heaven and leave the unbelievers behind? No. It doesn’t say that at all. So what happens once we meet him in the air?

We usher the King back into the city as the glorious victor over the enemies of Satan, sin, and death.

Paul is utilizing the imagery here of ancient Roman practice. When kings went out to war with their armies for months and years, nobody knew how long they would be gone. However, when they won the victory and made their way back to the city, the trumpet would sound when the king and his armies appeared on the horizon. The announcement would go out into the city that the king had returned. Then, everyone would rush out to meet him and usher the victorious king and armies back into the city.

Nobody is taking off to Heaven while unbelievers endure tribulations on Earth. That goes against so many passages of Scripture where believers are told to expect trials and tribulations.

We are not promised escape from it.

There are two different things described in scripture. I had no idea after several years of study. But after 2 years of intense daily study we found some serious clues. You cant go by old scholars. Unless you include Paul. Paul knew. Even Peter had trouble understanding some things Paul wrote. The Holy Spirit doesn't tell everybody everything. The veil is being lifted now. I was postrib, pretrib, midtrib. My dad and I both came back to pre last year. Once you see the light, you will never look back. Ask the Holy Spirit for guidance, spent quality time in prayer, and read plenty of scripture daily. You will find the truth. If you don't, and you are indwelt, its ok ,you will figure things out in a twinkle of an eye soon anyway

a reply to: CloneFarm1000
Thanks for the clarification of this subject. All in all it's one's own interpretation or their own beliefs. Change is definitely coming and soon. Whether it's benevolent or malevolent it's coming and fast. That I think we all can agree on.

There is no rapture, it would be nice though. But we are all going to be here until the end. Unless of course you die first.

If someone figures out a month for the rapture, let me know. I want to put in vacation time before it gets here.
Listened to one of those near death or after death and came back videos and the guy claimed there will be no rapture in his opinion. I don’t know. The world is going to hell it appears and I just hope to live peacefully with sufficient finances. Lots of people appear to be conspiring to make that much more difficult. Makes it seem like we might die in a nuclear war, radiation sickness, or face famine from lack of food. I hope things go well and we can all live peacefully but there are several on this planet that either don’t care or don’t believe in an afterlife and or the possibility of eternal punishment. I heard the Lady of Fatima said to pray for Russia many years ago to be converted to faith or they would spread their errors and destroy countries.

If the rapture happens I could hope that those remaining saw it as a warning to change their ways but if all the good people were taken, then hell will get here a lot faster. I am going to try to live my life like I don’t know how long I may live but hope to be around for my natural life or be taken in a rapture.

After the last 2 weeks of more serious pain, I realize when the pain gets worse, you can lose hope and hope the end comes sooner or you get better. I am planning for the long term but trying to prepare for my eventual death. If something happens to me, I want to make the transition easier for my relatives. There always seems to be a lot left to do though. Peace be with everyone if we suddenly disappear in a rapture. I may be hoping I’m not taken on board a spaceship for a trial because the Planetary Society put all member names on a chip on the rover mission. I could imagine aliens claiming we invaded their territory on Mars and taking us for trail. I thought it odd though the number of members at the time was over 140 thousand from all across the planet. Seemed to remind me of some 144 thousand number I heard before. I don’t know the future. If I did I would be a millionaire and retired.

originally posted by: BlackProjects
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

To your point(I hope it is wrong) per book of Enoch
readingacts.com...

corruption of dna

also Christ mentioned
"When the disciples asked Jesus to describe the signs of His coming and the end of the age, He pointed to many signs. But one of the most often overlooked is the idea that when He returns, the world will be “like it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37-41)

I am too an engineer.. Nice to meet you

so the world would be a crap ass sit h?
iguess we are there.



i see no mntion of the 144.

isn't that a part of the end times?

I really don't know if I believe any of this but the prophet Zechariah in Judaism warns of a great cleansing of sin in which 2/3's of the people will perish. During that cleansing the false prophets and unclean spirits will be dispelled out of the land. Zechariah warns in 13.6 KJV of one false prophet in particular. Identified by wounds ... "And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.".

Just before his death in 1797, a well respected Jewish sage, Vilna Gaon, is reported as leaving a warning of two specific events that will happen before the appearance of the Messiah.

“When you hear that the Russians have captured the city of Crimea (that came true in 2014), you should know that the times of the Messiah have started, that his steps are being heard. And when you hear that the Russians have reached the city of Constantinople (now called Istanbul, Turkey), you should put on your Shabbat (Sabbath) clothes and don’t take them off, because it means that the Messiah is about to come any minute.”.

If all that be true. One should make sure they exist on the right side of the fence. One side is full of idol worshipers. The other side has no idols before God. I suggest that Idol worshipers be defined as any mental construct that exist before the God whose name should never be spoken.

Take from that what you may.

a reply to: Topcraft

Topcraft
That is one of the scenarios many ascribe to. That being there is no rapture. Two precedents in old testament the biblical pretrib scholars point out Are as follows
1) Lot, his wife(although turned to stone), and daughters were saved from Sodom and gomorrah's fate
2) Noah and family were saved from the flood

I am starting to think you are right though

originally posted by: BlackProjects
2) Noah and family were saved from the flood

I cant resist pointing out here that they were saved by going through the experience of the flood safely- not by avoiding the experience altogether. If we get through the tribulation without losing our faith, then we have been saved.
Jesus says that the length of the tribulation will be cut short "for the sake of the elect" (Matthew ch24 vv22), something which would not be necessary if the elect had been taken away already.

a reply to: DISRAELI

DIsraeli
Some interesting/good pts.

Another aspect is they really trusted God in following what he told them. I wonder exactly who the "elect" he is referring to are. Could they be those who believe after the rapture? I admit I am not sure

a reply to: visitedbythem

I was curious if you had an opinion on the teachings of Pastor Joseph Prince?

He teaches the rapture as it is written in scripture which has the rapture occurring before the tribulation I believe...

a reply to: CloneFarm1000

I Appreciate your post because I am not sure if I believe in the concept of the rapture or not......it seems too good to be true and logistically strange to me.....

And you used the appropriate scriptures so It is good to be able to look at this from both sides..

Personally I don't expect the Lord to swoop me up early so I don't have to endure the end, but I will hold on to my faith all the same.

It will be nice if He does, and smarter people than me say He will so I am just being honest when I say I have a hard time believing sometimes more than others.

originally posted by: GoShredAK
a reply to: visitedbythem

I was curious if you had an opinion on the teachings of Pastor Joseph Prince?

He teaches the rapture as it is written in scripture which has the rapture occurring before the tribulation I believe...

I havnt heard of him, but I now believe the same, There are two different events, and that is what causes many people to believe that the Harpadzo (Rapture), and the second coming are one and the same. They aren't. There is a 7 year Jubilee that happens in Heaven at the same time as the 7 year Tribulation on Earth

a reply to: visitedbythem

This is the version of the rapture I try to put my faith in....

But like I wrote in another post I have a hard time believing it'll happen in the way we are hoping.

a reply to: BlackProjects

Baffles even scientists...

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) still don’t know where the whistle over the Pacific Ocean originates, researchers are still unsure of what causes a mysterious “humming” noise heard by many people in Britain, and the USGS still hasn’t identified a cause for “skyquakes” booms.

This is one of those.

It's also worth saying, for the biblical record, our ancient historians lacked the knowledge to know what was happening. So when a meteor airburst like the one in Tunguska happens over an ancient city of debauchery it really goes on record as fire coming from the sky and wiping out a city. It is now a historically sound ancient cataclysm.

We're in the same place. Unable to find the reasons for the various sky sounds across the world the all-purpose placeholder answer is back.

And really all people have is speculation. Swamp gas refractive speculation.

I like doing that too.

It sounds like it's friction caused. Like the first application of train brakes. That friction feedback sound of almost having resistance. Very few things produce friction sounds naturally.

A geologist in California encountered a sky noise by Mammoth mountain, minor earthquakes are numerous. He didn't feel anything but seismographs picked up a very shallow quake coinciding with the sound.

But what of Germany, Norway, Illinois, Argentina, and Austrailia. And areas where intraplate earthquakes are rare.

So is it deeper? Are these long locked half billion year old burried faults sliding so gradually they produce friction sound to propagate without much energy being released. Pretty much everywhere there are landmasses there are locked and burried ancient faults to some degree.

My intuition says fracking. Possibly caused by wastewater injection. The phenomenon took off around the same time fracking took off. And many countries do it. And many experience a rise in earthquakes if done near ancient fault sysyems. Or it could all be coincidental.



Earthquakes are generally caused by the locking up of active motion and release of the built up stress. This may be the opposite. This may be putting grease on the tracks. Perhaps large formally locked ancient faults are suddenly lubricated. Starting to gradually slide without any built up stress to release.

Just a circumstantial assertion. Not really much to go on. Bits and pieces of emerging research.

www.sciencealert.com...

a reply to: GoShredAK

He is absolutely correct! These are several of the same verses I have found, and he believes exactly the same as I do. Believe what he says. He speaks the truth.

originally posted by: visitedbythem
a reply to: GoShredAK

He is absolutely correct! These are several of the same verses I have found, and he believes exactly the same as I do. Believe what he says. He speaks the truth.

I appreciate you taking the time to check that out

I had a feeling you would agree....and thank you! I will 🙏

I have learned a lot and grown much closer to The Father and His Son Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior through the teachings of pastor Prince

a reply to: BlackProjects



I heard a Trumpet/ horn sound that was so loud that I ducked waiting for impact on a playground in Massachusetts.

It was the very thing that brought me to log in here.

The fact that only one other child and myself heard it on a playground surrounded by many other people made me believe it was a sign!