Existence is the default status of reality and the link to God.

I'm Elvis.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
I'm Elvis.

And I am Pachomius, and I am telling you that:

"First before anything else, let us you and I and all humans concur that we exist, otherwise we would not be here at all in this thread, or anywhere else.

Now, when we ask ourselves from what we came from, the answer is in-evitably from another thing in existence - and so on and on and on and on . . .

At this point we have to stop going further asking the same question, from what we came, because we will surely die sooner than later - so end of thread?

But before we die, we must need conclude that God exists without deriving His existence from another something - otherwise He is not God but another something: that means that we are again into the otherwise un-ending question of from what does anything come.

How, does that line of reasoning prove the existence of God?"

Tell me, Elvis, as you are in the realm beyond the grave, what do you say, Does God exist?

originally posted by: Pachomius
Tell me, Elvis, as you are in the realm beyond the grave, what do you say, Does God exist?

He ain't nothing but a hound dog, and he ain't no friend of mine.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I am curious, how did you part company with God - you were a Roman Catholic, I see that in the Latin inscription after your name.

Folks who used to be Christians of any church or denomination, when they left God they seem to go to the opposite extreme of anger and hatred against God - so, still no peace for them.

a reply to: Pachomius

Grew up in a small town Baptist church, on the West Coast. Parted company in my mid twenties after asking questions to myself about the narrative's legitimacy. Multiple angles, no single one answer. I don't believe in God, but I do like to throw salt sometimes. Can't be angry or hate a thing I don't believe in. I couldn't tell you where the angel touched me because it never did. As for my little Latin under my name.. It just seemed like a funny thing to put down as an atheist frequenting the religious boards when I first joined up.

*Motions with hand* *up down left right*

a reply to: cooperton

1) Something cannot come from nothing.
2)Therefore there was never nothing.
3)That something that always existed is God.

Destruct sequence 3, code 1 B-2B-3...

No, I can make that something a zero point field and swap it out like a mad lib.

If a no creator needed god always existed so can a creatorless field that spawns the observable universe.

An eternal field spontaneously fluctuating with seemingly no cause may as well be the form of god. God as a scaler field of massive potential. Or the causeless impulse of fluctuations from nothing therein. An attempt to logically explain a logicless beginning where one point is all points.

And even though I see creation completely different the rationale for my decision will never be able to discredit that around 13.4 billion years ago a god created the universe.

There's no higher ground on this one. Both at the mercy of causeless priori. My head still explodes either way.

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: cooperton

...

If a no creator needed god always existed so can a creatorless field that spawns the observable universe.

An eternal field spontaneously fluctuating with seemingly no cause may as well be the form of god. God as a scaler field of massive potential. Or the causeless impulse of fluctuations from nothing therein. An attempt to logically explain a logicless beginning where one point is all points.

...

And what kind of universe would such a mindless field produce? Or phrased differently, what kind of features of this universe would one predict in such a scenario, would it produce features that indicate purposeful design, foresight, technological know-how and will, the attributes of a person who knows what he/she is doing and what they're aiming at as the endresult?

Let's have another look at the evidence in question before answering that question (or after, cause it's not a hard question, and it's somewhat rhetorical):

Purposeful Design or Mindless Process? (Awake!—2009)

audio version:


Talking about the attributes of a person, how about especially living things in this universe demonstrating features of having been created by someone with an appreciation for aesthetics as specifically perceived by humans (many animals have quite a different visual spectrum which causes them to actually not see the various shades of colors in their own species that are so often appreciated by humans for their aesthetic value)?

And talking about the living world, the evidence for purposeful design is even more remarkable and telling there (more obvious):


Full context (playlist starting with the 1st video concerning molecular machinery)

Also more directly related to the question: Purposeful Design or Mindless Process?

A summary towards the end of the playlist:

Before anything else, we humans exist, that means you and I and every person, no one in his right mind can deny that.

Next, we humans are hard-wired to possess intelligence, reason, and free will, again: no human in his right mind can deny that.

Our intelligence prompts us to ask ourselves the question How did we get here, some smart guy will say that our papa and mama made love and brought us here, but the intelligent person will use reason to delve into how and why from nothingness we came into somethingness i.e. existence.

So, from the dawn of human consciousness and intelligence and reason and free will, man today has come to the existence of God, in concept as the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.

And this is the God that Christians and Muslims and Orthodox Jews know to be God.


Now, I ask humans who deny God exists, how do you explain your existence as humans?

Watch this video. Checkmate on your theory

originally posted by: RegularJo76
a reply to: angus1745

The original motive of the word "God" was to put a label/word onto a conceptual idea. Nothing more than that in my opinion. Religion is what took that label/word and changed the meaning behind it to control people.

You have mistaken the stolen imagery with the original. Spirituality came before religion, and no they are not the same thing.

in the begining was the word.

www.google.com... 0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#:~:text=1%3A%20In%20the%20beginning%20was%20the%20Word%2C%20and%20the%20Word%20was%20with%20God%2C%20and%20the%20Word%20 was%20God.%20%C2%B7%202%3A%20He%20was%20with%20God%20in%20the%20beginning.%20%C2%B7%203%3A%20Through%20him%20all%20things%20were%20made%3B%C2%A0..

There is the good, a lot of, in religion, and also the bad, not so much.

Christianism civilized the West and to the present, it is the Christian West that has the highest peak of culture, all arts, and yes - technology and science, and let us not forget: medicines and all areas of keeping mankind healthy - enabling man to live longer, better, and happier.


And see how in the rest of the world, their religions would seem to have kept peoples poor and their life one of severe hardship.

originally posted by: Pachomius
At this point we have to stop going further asking the same question, from what we came, because we will surely die sooner than later - so end of thread?

No we don't. Its turtles all the way down.

But before we die, we must need conclude that God exists without deriving His existence from another something - otherwise He is not God but another something: that means that we are again into the otherwise un-ending question of from what does anything come.

Where does Got come from when we are talking about turtles?

How, does that line of reasoning prove the existence of God?

It doesn't.

QED

originally posted by: cooperton

1) Something cannot come from nothing. Sez Whoo?
2)Therefore there was never nothing. Conclusion not drawn from evidence.
3)That something that always existed is God. This is a defintion, not a conclusion.

originally posted by: rnaa

1) Something cannot come from nothing. Sez Whoo?

Says the law of conservation of energy in physics, which has yet to be defied.

2)Therefore there was never nothing. Conclusion not drawn from evidence.

Now that you know the conservation of energy law, you can conclude there was never nothing, since something cannot come from nothing. Unless the laws of physics were drastically different in the past. But as we know currently, that is, scientifically, there is no physical way for something to come from nothing.

3)That something that always existed is God. This is a defintion, not a conclusion.

I think it's both a definition and the inevitable conclusion. The source of all matter and energy deserves the name God.

a reply to: cooperton

Something does come from nothing….

That’s all there is. Nothing. Infinite nothingness.

You want to talk physics? Ok.

Energy at rest is said to take up all the space available to it. Energy at rest that takes up all the space available to it is said to be an infinite amount of energy.

A black hole has a gravity pull so large that space time curves so much that it loops in on itself.

Essentially three dimensional space becomes zero dimensional space.

No space, no time. Yet all of space and all of time. Nothing existing there as no space for anything to exist. Except nothingness. Which is taking up all of the space available to it. Which is no space but all of space. That nothingness is at rest. Infinite amount of nothingness. Which is an infinite amount of existence. Which is an infinite amount of reality. An infinite amount of universes.

The nothingness that exists in zero dimensions takes up all of the space that those zero dimensions has. No space yet all of space. No time yet all of time. Nothing, yet everything. Existence, from non existence.


There is only one thing you can be certain about yourself as existing, and thats consciousness.
If there ever was zero dimensions, thats consciousness would be infinite.

a reply to: cooperton

linky

Stable resonant fractal oscillation to zero-point infinity within mandelbrot fractal boundary. Unstable degenerating fractal oscillation to infinity outside of mandelbrot boudndary. It either trends to zero (“stable/permanent”), or to inifinity (“unstable/non-permanent”).

Stable conditions are only present from zero up to the boundary of mandelbrot eventhorizon. Please note that zero-point, non-dimensionally expressed geometric point, contains infinite field potential and is therefore also an infinity, simply on the other end of the spectrum of what we usually understand as infinity. Infinitely discharged potential energy vs infinitely charged potential energy (zero-point).
To understand what an inifinity is from our point of perspective as 3 dimensional human beings you have to think in geometry. What is this zero-point?: Its a point, the point of symmetry in geometric terms, its something. Its a point, yet, we are not allowed to draw it dimensionally, because then its not a point anymore. So the point is something per geometric definition, yet nothing dimensionally speaking. This is how we can connect nature’s infinity to our human dimensional experience, to have a feeling for it, what it is. Its an infinite electrostatic power potential, non-dimensionally expressed.
When thinking in fields, Zero-point is the point-of-origin of fields, the point, from which any field vectors are drawn. Its the ultimate point of symmetry. Its a non-dimensionally infinite field vector point-potential. The field becomes dimensionally expressed through consumption of a quantized amount of this vector potential. When thinking electromagnetically, zero-point is the electrostatic non-dimensional infinite energy point-potential. Through discharge, it forms electric and magnetic currents, dimensionally expressed dynamic electromagnetic fields.

In a religious analogy, god would be the infinite electrostatic energy potential. Through speaking a word (electric discharge), he initiates creation, which is the words frequency and vibration, force and motion, resonance, harmony (electromagnetic waves). Zero-point is why there is “something” rather than “nothing” in our universe 🙂 ❤ Infinite electrostatic zero-point potential is “nothing, dimensionally speaking” that is actually “something geometrically and electrically/magnetically (fields) speaking”.

There you go. Thats what I’ve been trying to say.

originally posted by: DaRAGE

There is only one thing you can be certain about yourself as existing, and thats consciousness.
If there ever was zero dimensions, thats consciousness would be infinite.

Yeah I believe we come from the infinite primordial consciousness, called God. This actually solves the something-from-nothing paradox because God always existed, and never did not exist. From this always-existent Being, all things were made.

God encompasses all time and beyond. For this reason God is called 'Alpha-Omega'. From God we have our being. Theologians and philosophers long ago were able to deduce this through logical deduction.

Through speaking a word (electric discharge), he initiates creation, which is the words frequency and vibration, force and motion, resonance, harmony (electromagnetic waves). Zero-point is why there is “something” rather than “nothing” in our universe 🙂 ❤ Infinite electrostatic zero-point potential is “nothing, dimensionally speaking” that is actually “something geometrically and electrically/magnetically (fields) speaking”.

This very effectively describes the mustard seed in Jesus's parables... it is the smallest (i.e. zero point), yet within it is the potential for the establishment of mansions in the heavens. The energy that this runs on is belief. But I would argue that this is definitely not nothing, it is everything... The true immovable solid foundation of the world.

a reply to: cooperton

Yeah and what you believe is my belief too.

All I’m saying is: dimensionally speaking: nothing is zero-point. No dimensions. Nothing dimensionally speaking, that is actually something geometrically and electrically/magnetically (fields) speaking.

I mean we consider ourselves electromagnetic beings. Everythings electromagnetic. Zero point which is nothing dimensionally means that any electromagnetic waves/potential exists at rest taking up all the space available which exists as no space, yet all of space and time. Energy taking up all of space is said to be at rest because it has nowhere to go or move, or transfer energy. Energy at rest is infinite. Infinite electromagnetic potential. Existing as nothing dimensionally speaking. It is because of nothing dimensionally speaking that infinitely everything electromagnetically speaking exists.

Its why scientists think we could be living inside a black hole.

If we believe that we have consciousness and everything is electromagnetic and that consciousness therefore is electromagnetic, having infinite electromagnetic potential one would have an infinite conscious being, existing in all of space and time, and an infinite conscious being can use its infinite consciousness to create infinitely everything it wants in its infinite mind with its infinite awareness. It’s God, its infinite, its the universe/multiverse, its existence, its consciousness, all encompassing, everything, throughout all of time, all of space. It’s also nothing and has arisen because of nothing existing. It’s nothing spatially that creates an infinite everything non-spatially.

originally posted by: DaRAGE
a reply to: cooperton

Yeah and what you believe is my belief too.

All I’m saying is: dimensionally speaking: nothing is zero-point. No dimensions. Nothing dimensionally speaking, that is actually something geometrically and electrically/magnetically (fields) speaking.

I wonder if zero-point is actually a higher dimensional aspect, since it would simultaneously be dimensionless and all-pervading at the same time. For this reason I think it would be the transcendental faculty of existence

I mean we consider ourselves electromagnetic beings. Everythings electromagnetic. Zero point which is nothing dimensionally means that any electromagnetic waves/potential exists at rest taking up all the space available which exists as no space, yet all of space and time. Energy taking up all of space is said to be at rest because it has nowhere to go or move, or transfer energy.


Energy at rest is infinite.

I think this is the true meaning of 'Sabbath',, or 'God's rest'. To rest in the realm of the infinite where you're no longer subject to the confines of time.

"But forget not this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. "
2 Peter 3:8

Its why scientists think we could be living inside a black hole.

If been twiddling around with some theories that involve exactly that. Einstein's relativity theory hidden right in front of our eyes.

If we believe that we have consciousness and everything is electromagnetic and that consciousness therefore is electromagnetic, having infinite electromagnetic potential one would have an infinite conscious being, existing in all of space and time, and an infinite conscious being can use its infinite consciousness to create infinitely everything it wants in its infinite mind with its infinite awareness. It’s God, its infinite, its the universe/multiverse, its existence, its consciousness, all encompassing, everything, throughout all of time, all of space. It’s also nothing and has arisen because of nothing existing. It’s nothing spatially that creates an infinite everything non-spatially.

If you're aware of gnosticism, this is what they refer to as the "Pleroma", the place of fulfillment.

"Already the time has come, brothers, for us to abandon our labor and stand at rest. For whoever stands at rest will rest forever"

gnosis.org...