Ukraine War - the Narrative is Slowly Changing

www.washingtonpost.com...

Only nine residents of this largely destroyed 120-unit apartment block have stayed behind since it was struck by Russian forces on May 31, in an attack neighbors said was probably targeting Ukrainian troops sleeping in the school next door, which was also hit.

Again, The Washington Post admits that Ukrainian troops hide among civilian infrastructure, using local populations as human shields.

But this smashed apartment building illustrates the complicated choices faced by people in a place with deep historical, cultural and family bonds to both Ukraine and Russia.Those who left ran in opposite directions: some south or east toward Russian-held separatist territories, others west toward safer areas of Ukraine.

Those who remain feel the same magnetic pushes and pulls.

Some stand fiercely with Ukraine and are disgusted by Russia’s false propaganda that Moscow is “liberating” Ukraine from a tyrannical Nazi government.

Others feel the pull of history and sympathize with Russia. Despite all the misery and death caused by Russian forces in nearly four months of war, including in their own apartment building, they still feel more connected to Russia than to the government in the faraway Ukrainian capital, Kyiv.

The article notes that the city's residents are divided in their loyalties and views on Russia. The Washington Post and other MSM outlets are incrementally bringing their audience towards reality away from the absurd pro-Ukrainian narratives they have peddled for months.

Nothing they are saying or showing now is new information. It is just information that they have refused to report before. When Mariupol was still being invaded I would say on these boards that there are a lot of people that are pro-Russan there that see Russia as liberators and it would be immediately labeled as lies and propaganda. MSM told them so.

The narrative is shifting. The only question I have is just how much and how fast will it shift as the war keeps going.

a reply to: Grimpachi

My question is how much faster the Russian narrative (IE "propaganda") will shift?

I called this practice out from day 1 I heard about it!

Military inside the cities instead being outside on their way TOWARDS the Russians, tackling them BEFORE they reach the cities.

What's going to happen if you arm civilians, especially teenagers and minors in a war? Is it honest then, to say Russians shoot civilians? Yes they do but they are armed, what are people thinking is going to happen? That in a war the enemy first checks if it's a true military person or does it look like a civilian?

The civilians that shoot at the Russians do it to defend though, let's not forget. It's about the details. But to say Russians are mindlessly shooting civilians for fun is brazen. Of course pointing this out is a nuisance for many.

I don't care, it's something that needs to be said. I might be biased because of seeing that from day 1. How the Ukrainian military behaved. Can't blame them though, where should the combat knowledge come from? But I do not have it too.

It's just logic that if you see the enemy on the horizon and want to shield your citizens, you don't make them a target. You don't wait until they arrive, you tackle them WHILE they enter the country and approach. Every god damn meter is precious. It can mean that the shell's won't even be able to reach the city.

Instead it seems like they were playing sitting ducks to generate enough outrage to have the NATO and rest of the world join, while the civilians take the toll.

Makes me so angry.

Ukraine Russia is not in the top 10 priorities of American minds anymore. But I suppose it does not matter to Ukraine leadership, as long as the USA keeps sending a few billion $$$ every couple weeks or so.

a reply to: Grimpachi

The narrative is shifting.

In your brain maybe.

Over 40 WTO Members agreed a UK-led statement following the conclusion of the WTO's 12th Ministerial Conference (MC12), condemning Russian aggression against Ukraine.

www.gov.uk...

Anyone with any common sense has known this since the beginning.

With a Ukrainian general announcing today that half of their heavy equipment has been destroyed and zelenskyy calling for all fighting aged Ukrainians to return from Europe to fight its clear the narrative of Ukraine winning or the Russians doing badly will change too. They are running out of men and weapons.

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

EU makes them a "EU entry candidate" too, or already did. Just heard it on the radio a few days ago. How the Ukrainians that are willing to die for the European Idea deserve to at least get status "EU entry candidate".

As if that wasn't the plan from the beginning and as if we needed ANOTHER eastern country inside the EU that is full of corruption.

Let's see how many terror organisations get their hands on war equipment that was just blindly sent down there. We already heard reports of those rocket launchers from Germany being used by terrorist cells to target aircraft at air ports in nearby bordering countries.

Who would have thought that would ever happen???

a reply to: TDDAgain

Military inside the cities instead being outside on their way TOWARDS the Russians, tackling them BEFORE they reach the cities.

Easy to say when it's not you doing it , the military will use any advantage they can and cover is a big advantage when fighting a superior force.

a reply to: TDDAgain

It will take years to gain EU membership and will need all EU countries to approve.

Maybe you confuse the EU with NATO?

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

Do you have a source, please?

a reply to: Grimpachi

For what it's worth, I'm seeing the Russians heavily shelling Ukrainian positions over the past week, but their ground offensive has substantially slowed.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

It will take years to gain EU membership and will need all EU countries to approve.

And? Does it change the fact they just granted this to the Ukraine in this time? With the optics it has?

Maybe you confuse the EU with NATO?

No I don't, I know exactly what I talk about. Maybe you jumped the gun a bit too fast here. Yes I used EU and NATO but evidently both are completely different concepts.

Waiting for you to educate me about how the EU is in Europe but Europe isn't the EU. I have that feeling you think I am that dumb. Maybe not self project.

While you're at it, please also educate me about my countries history, I always like that.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

Do you have a source, please?

The source and interview is on rt.com.

I expect you will need a proxy to view it.

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

You will forgive me if I won't bother then.....RT?!!!
.
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originally posted by: carewemust
Ukraine Russia is not in the top 10 priorities of American minds anymore. But I suppose it does not matter to Ukraine leadership, as long as the USA keeps sending a few billion $$$ every couple weeks or so.

It is not on the civilian's minds but it is easy to see where our government's priorities are.

a reply to: gortex

Easy to say when it's not you doing it , the military will use any advantage they can and cover is a big advantage when fighting a superior force.

You mean like, using civilians as canon fodder and shields? So you are okay with that? I think you got it real wrong here.

The whole reason the military even exists: To protect the citizens, not to protect themselves. A concept you should try to understand.

a reply to: TDDAgain

Maybe you do not understand that they are fighting an invading army that does not play by the rules and indiscriminately shells, bombs and flattens towns, cities and residential areas?

a reply to: TDDAgain

how the EU is in Europe but Europe isn't the EU

There are great teaching jobs waiting for you in Brussels and Strasbourg. Because a lot of EU politicians don't seem to grasp the simple truth you mentioned.

'Course, I fully understand if you don't want to spend your working days wading through hip-deep ... stuff.



Cheers

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Maybe, if you think that, you should grab your glasses and read my post again.

What you accuse about, that I ignore this is complete bull#. I wrote it and shone a light on it from all angles. It's in your head, because you can't read my post without staying unbiased.

The whole point of the Russians not being able to flatten towns was that the Ukrainian defenders stop them BEFORE they get there.

You can now fall to your normal modus operandi and act like I insulted you, make ten posts in a row to different members and kill the thread, if you like to.

bye.

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2
They should invite me, indeed.

Make me dictatoress of the EU. Finally. My first aspirations were just for Germany, back then when I first came clear about it, I thought like "one country after another". But why not all at once?

Believe me, it will be good times. Just not for the politicians.