Some of the Roswell Riddle examined

a reply to: peaceinoutz

Possibly this:

www.darpa.mil...

and stealth planes were not made pubic until 1990

www.lockheedmartin.com...

or some other military objective that benefited from a cover of fanning
the flames of UFO hysteria.

Remember, the entire reason Mr. Bennewitz was Bennewitzed was that
he was listening to classified military broadcasts.

Much of what the MIC has always done has been to spread FUD and
whatever it takes to divert people away from their operations.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

It’s the second-hand witnesses and a clear hoaxer Kaufman who has led this Roswell movement.

The mortician Glen Dennis supposedly heard about the alien autopsy from a horrified mysterious nurse no one could find for years and still doesn’t know for sure ever existed. Then a few others heard their father or grandfather say some aliens were seen on gurneys or in crates, or they heard this army guy tell them about a second or third-hand little dead alien story and even a live alien here or there. Then some guy who was 5 years old described a story as an adult so intricate and imaginative that anyone with a cautious eye would have seen that story as problematic from the beginning. The same guy who concocted a bogus diary entry by an uncle( not exposed in the Crash at Corona book, naturally since the ufologists have an interest to protect his questionable story and acts) but all these ufologists did was encourage these most likely fables to see their books sell...

But the big guy was Frank Kaufman, who started the Roswell /Corona tales and after his death, all his private papers exposed him to be a phony and liar of the first order. He hoodwinked all of the early Ufologists, like Stanton Friedman, Don Berliner, et al who peddled this story filled with holes to the general public (Bill Moore didn’t have to be hoodwinked since he was already an IC disinformation agent) and probably knew this was all hyped up second and third-hand tales. (I would mention Kevin Randle did see problems with the 5-year-old now-adult alien crash narrative witness.)


I highly recommend the Karl T. Pflock book which got it mostly right among all those well-known ufologists who allowed themselves to be used by very tawrdy storytellers on which they built the frail edifice of this Roswell mystique.

Even though Pflock was an ex-CIA guy, nevertheless his book IMO got it mostly right, though it's not 100 percent certain, I must add. In other words, Roswell with all its warts has still some mysteries behind it.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

That is a good possibility that the general idea that the MIC through the IC wanted this distorted and misdirection alien/ufo propaganda to spread, merely as the cost of doing their dirty business, of hell on earth and its destruction along with the dopey Russians.

And we know their modes operendi was to filter this stuff through eager, and some, I’m sorry to say, greedy ufologists who would buy a used car and a bogus story from any ufo witness they could find.

So, when this all re-started in 1977 the IC had a great opportunity to feed this Roswell myth to a plethora of ufologists who amongst them had the admitted disinformation agent Bill Moore at the head of their table.

Freidman, Berliner, Schmitt, Carey, Randle, and even Pflock, though he began a believer and converted to a disbeliever after looking at the evidence, were all mainly from 77 all the way up into the 90s researching this tale like locusts on Armageddon.

So, the IC disinformation squad had a willing group of ufologists who went around looking for Roswell stories from very willing and sometimes unwilling witnesses, to spin a wild story IMO unworthy of reporting as fact, as they so often did.

They could have become like Nick Redfern or Greg Bishop do when dealing with such subjects, as reporters of the story NOT believers who talk about it as if it were fact.

For me one of the most convincing pieces of evidence that nothing extra-terrestrial was found near Roswell is Twining's Sept 23rd 1947 memo.

In the memo he confirms the phenomenon is real. But also that there is a ‘lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence of these subjects’.



Twining was also in New Mexico on July 7th and only left on July 11th 1947!!! So he was close to the action at the exact time the news releases were made.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

It would have been a big HAIRY DEAL to
reveal mogul at the time.

Kev

Maybe but to use that as justification for a press release stating flying disc recovered doesn't make sense - who was going to reveal anything ?

Then to retract it anyway ! Whatever the reason for the press release I don't see that as being it.

a reply to: chunder

the dude got over-exicted and made an ass of himself,
then his boss made him retract it.

No need to make it any more than that.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

Nicely said.

a reply to: mirageman

Twining was also in New Mexico on July 7th and only left on July 11th 1947!!! So he was close to the action at the exact time the news releases were made.

Don’t a lot of believers take that as a sign something big was happening there?

I know still today the dates arent to set in stone.

The Twining Memo…..is about “Flying (Discs)”… (plural) in general….not specifically referenced to Roswell…..is how I read it…..

The memo also states “It is (the) opinion that”…….it’s not Twining’s personal opinion but, a consensus opinion.

For all I know …. The memo could have been referencing sightings such as Kenneth Arnold’s and any other reports of Discs, Saucers, etc since the Kenneth Arnold.

Ya got to remember, ever since Kenneth Arnold made the news…..it was a hot topic….a spotting Flying Discs /Saucers were all the rage and more reports started to come in from any Joe blow.

👽🛸🍺🧐

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

The Twining Memo…..is about “Flying (Discs)”… (plural) in general….not specifically referenced to Roswell…..

Yes but it was written two and half months after the Roswell incident. And Twining is clearly stating


". Due consideration must be given the following:-..The lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence of these subjects. "




You have to twist through a number of increasingly implausible explanations to come to the conclusion that Twining was stating there was a lack of "physical evidence" of "crash recovered exhibits" and that Roswell was an alien spaceship.

a reply to: mirageman

I read you point…..point taken

Bottom line for me Roswell = Baaaaaaaallooooooon


👽🛸🍻

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: peaceinoutz
I've already seen the debris multiple times and yes it not only looks like an array and it probably is but that is the nature of the original debunk. But as Marcel says "it aint the debris they picked up from the site". Now I know and you know that whatever they found caused that much a flap that it had to be flown to other bases. FOR WHAT????? Are you seriously trying to tell me that the US air force would go to so much trouble for what they would certainly know as balloon debris?

To hide the fact they were working on a top-secret project they wanted to hide from the world? Yes; they would do that and so much more, if that's the case.

There is evidence to support the official story as being the truth, and there is evidence to support the official story is a coverup, so believing either story boils down to personal choice until/if/when conclusive proof one way or the other comes out. That's what makes conspiracy theories so much fun!

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

In other words, Roswell with all its warts has still some mysteries behind it.

There are no real mysteries except possibly why certain puzzling actions were taken such as why use a big bomber to transport a few pounds of the simple Mogul debris that was recovered.

Yewars ago under a similar thread I replied and added a photo of a air crash victim on a gurney that was bald and bulging eyes and for all intent and purposes looked like an "alien". I'm not implying that Glen Dennis encountered a similar situation but it's food for thought.

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

It’s the second-hand witnesses and a clear hoaxer Kaufman who has led this Roswell movement.
snip
I highly recommend the Karl T. Pflock book which got it mostly right among all those well-known ufologists who allowed themselves to be used by very tawrdy storytellers on which they built the frail edifice of this Roswell mystique.

Even though Pflock was an ex-CIA guy, nevertheless his book IMO got it mostly right, though it's not 100 percent certain, I must add. In other words, Roswell with all its warts has still some mysteries behind it.

Good for you for recommending Karl T. Pflock's book (Roswell: Inconvenient Facts and the Will to Believe - 2001). I've been recommending it since I bought it in 2001 and it is my reference book in anything connected to Roswell. But some close-minded, fantasy-prone people prefer to hang on to the fantasy. I don't have many UFO books left but this one holds a place of honor.

a reply to: idusmartias

I agree, it’s a great reference. The research is good on all aspects of Roswell is covered, and it's available
in most libraries.

originally posted by: mirageman
For me one of the most convincing pieces of evidence that nothing extra-terrestrial was found near Roswell is Twining's Sept 23rd 1947 memo.

In the memo he confirms the phenomenon is real. But also that there is a ‘lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence of these subjects’.

Twining was also in New Mexico on July 7th and only left on July 11th 1947!!! So he was close to the action at the exact time the news releases were made.

I met Gen. Twining in 1957 while I was stationed in Sidi Slimane AFB (SAC), Morocco. I worked for the Sgt Major and our desks were right outside the base commander's office. He and a couple of Majors arrived to visit the commander and as he approached we stood up and he shook my hand and the sgt major's. When they departed he again smiled at me. Made my day.

originally posted by: nugget1

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: peaceinoutz
I've already seen the debris multiple times and yes it not only looks like an array and it probably is but that is the nature of the original debunk. But as Marcel says "it aint the debris they picked up from the site". Now I know and you know that whatever they found caused that much a flap that it had to be flown to other bases. FOR WHAT????? Are you seriously trying to tell me that the US air force would go to so much trouble for what they would certainly know as balloon debris?

To hide the fact they were working on a top-secret project they wanted to hide from the world? Yes; they would do that and so much more, if that's the case.

There is evidence to support the official story as being the truth, and there is evidence to support the official story is a coverup, so believing either story boils down to personal choice until/if/when conclusive proof one way or the other comes out. That's what makes conspiracy theories so much fun!

crazyeed is a conspiracy freak. He would rather accept the fantasy rather than common sense facts. He is entitled to believe whatever he wants and he's not alone. But he should be challenged to provide evidence of crashed alien craft and he is never going to succeed. Perhaps eventually he'll learn what logic means.

a reply to: idusmartias

I won't dispute you on that, but unknowns are often there in disputed events such as Roswell. For example, the nurse the Dennis story talks about certainly has a mystery behind it. Also, the reason why they may have used the Roswell mythos as a disinformation tool.

It all goes back to that period of the late 70s early 80s when the Bennewitz/Doty/Moore fiasco, up until the MJ 12 exposures all the way to the 90s when the GOA report came out which BTW is not all that conclusive about Roswell one might think.

There are no real mysteries except possibly why certain puzzling actions were taken such as why use a big bomber to transport a few pounds of the simple Mogul debris that was recovered

Well, there you go there are certain unknowns and I think others too.

Though I have confidence in my belief of some of the standard UFO subject matter, I nevertheless try to keep an open mind particularly when we’re dealing with the USG IC community shenanigans.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

Nick Redfern posits that japanese prisoners of war
were being experimented upon and stuffed into
balloons.

Since nobody ever saw any 'little bodies' at the
time (that is credible), I don't think about it
much, but if there were little bodies, you can
bet it was human experimentation.

our government LOVES experimenting on us.

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: peaceinoutz

Nick Redfern posits that japanese prisoners of war
were being experimented upon and stuffed into
balloons.

Since nobody ever saw any 'little bodies' at the
time (that is credible), I don't think about it
much, but if there were little bodies, you can
bet it was human experimentation.

our government LOVES experimenting on us.

Kev

There was such testing in the U.S. called Project Manhigh



Source Project MANHIGH 1950’s


A theory……. what if in the 1940’s, balloon payload packages included a predecessor version of Project Manhigh using Chimp size Monkey’s instead humans for the same reasons Project Manhigh was using Men.

Suppose more than one Monkey sized balloon capsule was attached in the long train of a Mogul balloon system. What if part of the testing called for the Chimpanzee Monkeys used to be completely shaven to the skin.

All of this done in Top Secret…..and above.

That would account for purported sightings of small Beings from a flying disc (in a actuality a Mogul balloon) air crash.

Hmmmmmm

👽🛸🥃🍺🍸🧃