Returning National Parks to American Indians

a reply to: DISRAELI

Is it really a question of use of the land, or is more a question of primacy of claim. The fact that the First Nations people's not farming the lands was the excuse used to sieze their territory in the first place. It was the excuse used to slaughter them and herd them onto the reservations. In fact, they were using the lands for grazing lands for buffalo herds.

originally posted by: Halfswede
Should every country and every territory be returned to the most original peoples that lived there. If not, why not? Food for thought.

More food for thought -- if we all originated in Africa as a species, wouldn't that be the ultimate Back To The Origin goal destination?

Chewing on topics further tends to lead to some unintended, but still thought-provoking, rabbit holes

a reply to: IAMALLYETALLIAM

Interesting you mention Constatinople. A case where it might well be argued a higher civilization was displaced by a less sophisticated society. The same could be said of Rome, conquered by barbarians. Of course, those who despise Western Civilization would take exception to that assertion in the case of the Byzantines.

a reply to: TonyS

Ok then lets give everyones land back all across the globe because ALL land is stolen. Whom would we give it to? Nobody owns anything fully. I mean how can you claim something that is BILLIONS of years old?

I am so over all of this pandering to certain groups in this country. GET OVER IT! Move on! The past is the past. Stop living in it.

a reply to: Subsonic

Oh we have a Native American historian here. Please share with us the oral history elders have shared about these battles that tribes were taking over other tribal land like white people for tens of 1000's of years.

a reply to: IAMALLYETALLIAM

Here in the US, indigenous people are barely represented at all as staff in the National Parks and I know that drives them crazy.

Great thread OP, didn't think there was an audience on ATS for this subject. I completely agree the stewards of the land should have the land returned to them. Same in Hawai'i.

I actually think do away with real estate laws, and instead of paying rent or a mortgage we make our payments by being land stewards of where we live. I think it would work and free up a ton of money by ending real estate.

originally posted by: Subsonic
No.

It's not like the Indian tribes who lived there when Europeans arrived had always lived there. They too fought for that land and killed or chased off the previous Native American tribal inhabitants and had done so for many thousands of years prior. Humans have fought for land since time immemorial, why should one group of people who happened to be the current occupants when Europeans arrived get that land back? They lost. End of story.

To the winners go the spoils, this has been the case forever. Why are we suddenly obsessed with returning land back to people who lost, also known as the weaker, less developed group of people?

Of course I'm playing devil's advocate here to make a point, I'm not that big of a jerk, but the point I think is valid.

My question is why is this only an American preoccupation?

There is no way in hell the Gov is going to let go of that sort of revenue

Not a chance in hell

a reply to: TonyS

We gonna give the Chinese Amtrak too?

They have casinos. They have received more reparations through Indian gaming then any other group America once tried to ethnically cleanse. And then they'll get greedy and reduce the blood requirement from 1/16th to 1/8th.

But they are loaded now. Well, some are loaded, the rest can work at the casino, work up to blackjack dealer, and then get tipped by the compulsive and loaded alike. Still, they can now buy better land and call it sacred.

a reply to: game over man

Ever hear of the Clovis people?

They were the actual native Americans.

Then nomads came across the Bering Streight from Asia and brutally murdered them.

Complete and total genocide.

Every last one gone.
Extinct.

Those Asian murders laughingly refer to themselves as Native Americans now and own casinos.

History is fun.

a reply to: abe froman

Yes I've heard of the Clovis tribe and the land bridge theory is complete racist BS. Just like your post saying Native Americans killed them.

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: game over man

Ever hear of the Clovis people?

They were the actual native Americans.

Then nomads came across the Bering Streight from Asia and brutally murdered them.

Complete and total genocide.

Every last one gone.
Extinct.

Those Asian murders laughingly refer to themselves as Native Americans now and own casinos.

History is fun.

Clovis People Not First Americans

The Clovis people are not free from the guilt of human displacement.

Ask the Indians if they'd like to trade in their CASINOS for the National Parks.

originally posted by: carewemust
Ask the Indians if they'd like to trade in their CASINOS for the National Parks.

To be fair a large majority of Natives dont have Casinos on their lands, so the revenue from national park fees would be a welcome sight.

That being said, I wouldnt want the gov to be involved any more in our lands where they might find another in with this whole thing

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: BelleEpoque
Sounds fair to me. I thought if we would give the Native Americans the northern mid-west states, we could clear some conscience. National Parks ! that would really be nice and might help with our national dharma *.

* Dharma is anything that upholds a positive order.

That Dharma is more on the Spanish and Dutch. Seems their sins have been transferred to us such as 15 million, I think it was a lot more that died, but shouldn't the Indians go to Spain for reparations? Also, if we applied this same logic to the whole world I would think ALL borders would be changed, and a good number of countries would disappear, but hey it's those evil Americans....geez

My view on it is this, there is an evil on this earth that thru the ages has slaughtered people and civilizations. There was no reason to genocide those incredible people. Just wiki "genocide" and see how many listings of examples come up.

Americans feel so bad about it they want to give them the best we have.

originally posted by: BelleEpoque

Americans feel so bad about it they want to give them the best we have.

A few Americans... Most likely vegan too

a reply to: TonyS

It sounds all warm and fuzzy on paper, but you can't ever put right what was done to the Indian Nations. The people that did the crime and the people who suffered it are long gone. The skill sets diet and medicines would be better kept alive where all youth should be taught how to make moccasins and birch bark canoes because they are going to need those skill sets soon.

a reply to: TonyS

What do they do about land that belonged to one tribe, and was then taken by another?

Do they return it to the last tribe that occupied the land, or the one before that?

How far back in time do you go?

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: abe froman

Yes I've heard of the Clovis tribe and the land bridge theory is complete racist BS. Just like your post saying Native Americans killed them.

And yet there are still pre-ice age artifacts in North America that date back to a time when America was accessible from Europe, and which match the tool making techniques of the people found in Europe during that time.

The only other explanation would be that Native Americans travelled to Europe and brought the artifacts back - at a time when there shouldn't have been any native Americans.

originally posted by: BelleEpoque
Sounds fair to me. I thought if we would give the Native Americans the northern mid-west states, we could clear some conscience. National Parks ! that would really be nice and might help with our national dharma *.

* Dharma is anything that upholds a positive order.

Nah, let’s give them back the NE states, I’m sure they would like that much better.