Finland's entry into NATO will return it to the state of war in 1944

a reply to: Freeborn

Would You FOLD in a Poker Game while Holding Only Aces and Eights Before the Last Card is Dealt , and Facing an Opponent showing a Possible Straight ?

a reply to: Riouz5

Authoritarian leader. Russia is a democracy, is it not ???

Suppressing internal disent. Every Nation ,Government,does this yes?

The most beautiful democracy where dissidents are silenced and wrong speak can get you 15 years.

Promoting idea of lost empire and historical wrongs to be righted. Where has Putin ever stated this intention quotes please

You could start with his speech that was aired as he declared his "special operation" or you could ask RT he seemed to back the idea that Ukraine doesn't exist.

Invading neighbouring country on false pretext. 3 million Russian Citizens live in the Donbass regions and have been persecuted since 2014 ..

See this is the kicker I never get a straight answer on, why the hell are Russian citizens occupying Ukrainian soil? Do they have duel citizenship or working visas?

They can lawfully be stripped of Ukrainian citizenship if that's the case, they can be legally removed too. In fact there's a lot they could be subjected to.

Or are we talking about ethnicity?

Far too late to be claiming civil war I'm afraid, maybe an exodus would cause less bloodshed that said I have an inkling this whole "Russians are persecuted in Ukraine!" is artificial and mostly bs.

I don't think that the people or the government is scared of Russia here in Finland. We have a good defence and can manage on our own, also this time we wouldn't have to do it on our own equipment seeing the support Ukraine is getting vs what help we got in 1939.

Attitude here in general I think is that we want to show finger to Putin because of what he has done in Ukraine. We could have joined Nato before but we didn't out of courtesy to Russia. Also another reason is this. Our ex president said recently that after the collapse of the Soviet Union she, Merkel and other European leaders had great optimism that Russia is going to be part of the world again and they refused to the believe the facts for two decades. This is one reason why Germany is so dependent on Russian gas etc atm.

Anyway we have been a Nato partner since 1994 and our army has been on Nato missions in Afghanistan and Iraq for example. By joining and showing finger to Putin we would get Article 5 as a bonus. One dead person because of some madman is too much.

www.justsecurity.org...

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

I assure you, basing decisions of such importance on what I would do personally would be shear lunacy.....my natural inclination to any threat is aggressive which can often lead to extreme violence.
Thankfully I have managed to control that tendency over the years....but it is still my default setting - not something I am proud of.

Its certainly not something to base a nations foreign and defence policies on.

I do get the point you are making, I just feel that if there is to be an end to the killing then a certain amount of pragmatism and realism is required.

I don't understand people like RussianTroll. I have always thought that after over 100 years of rule of dictators Russian people would deserve a democratic country again. Are you so brainwashed? I have been starting to think that it's not possible anymore after so many generations have been raised in totalitarian rule. It's just sad, I remember reading that Russia was a really modern country in the late 1800's and there was one city that was like Paris of it's age, European royal wen't to holiday there etc.

Anyway Putin chose his path years ago and Russia is now isolated from most of the world and it's economy will be reduce to rubble. Have fun in the future living like North Koreans.

a reply to: RAY1990

See this is the kicker I never get a straight answer on, why the hell are Russian citizens occupying Ukrainian soil? Do they have duel citizenship or working visas?

Or are we talking about ethnicity?

The majority were either transplanted or migrated there to work in the large urban centres.

Whilst its true that there is more or less an even split of people of both Ukrainian and Russian ethnicity in cities like Luhansk and Donetsk the truth is that approximately 59% of the population of both Oblasts are Ukrainian - or were before the mass migration due to the Russian invasion - and 38% are of Russian descent.

As in most cases like this agitators and extremists from both sides - funded by both governments - provoked, intimidated and terrorised which as always resulted in reciprocal acts and the inevitable snowball effect.
The situation was without doubt inflamed and exacerbated by Moscow funding and arming of Ultra Right-Wing Russian Militias.

a reply to: Freeborn

I should look into the statistics more, those are bewildering stats although from stuff I've read in the past it's hardly uncommon in ex-soviet nations.

I'll look into the citizenship aspect, ethnically I'm Irish and Italian but it doesn't give me a right to carve out pieces of land, doesn't even give me bonus points on a visa.

It's the civilians and their rights etc I was curious about.

originally posted by: RussianTroll
Hello ATS!

Finland and Sweden are going to join NATO.

A descison forced on them 100% entirely by Putin the mad, betrayer of the Russian people.

The sooner Russia gets rid of their paranoid, ga-ga, neo-Nazi Fuhrer, the sooner we can all go back to be friends again.

Your call.

Telephone conversation with President of Finland Sauli Niinistö

May 14, 2022 14:45

The presidents had a sincere exchange of views over the announced decision by Finland’s leadership to apply for NATO membership.

Vladimir Putin stressed that rejecting the traditional policy of military neutrality would be wrong since there are no threats to Finland’s security. Such a change in the country’s foreign policy course could have a negative effect on Russia-Finland relations, which have been built over the course of many years in the spirit of neighbourliness and partnership cooperation and have a mutually beneficial nature.

The leaders also discussed the situation in Ukraine. In particular, Vladimir Putin shared his opinion of the state of the negotiating process between Russian and Ukrainian representatives. This process has been practically put on hold by Kiev, which does not show any interest in a serious and constructive dialogue.

en.kremlin.ru...

a reply to: turretless

How many times Putin said he is not going to attack Ukraine ? and Yet he did it ! So many times he lied that we can´t even count those. So do you think Putin´s word is worth anything now ?

a reply to: turretless

Vladimir Putin stressed that rejecting the traditional policy of military neutrality would be wrong since there are no threats to Finland’s security.

No one believes you Pukin. You said you had no intention of invading Ukraine.

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: turretless

How many times Putin said he is not going to attack Ukraine ? and Yet he did it ! So many times he lied that we can´t even count those. So do you think Putin´s word is worth anything now ?

Circumstances changed when the Ukrainian president announced plans to build nuclear weapons.

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: turretless

How many times Putin said he is not going to attack Ukraine ? and Yet he did it ! So many times he lied that we can´t even count those. So do you think Putin´s word is worth anything now ?

Circumstances changed when the Ukrainian president announced plans to build nuclear weapons.

Yet more lies from Pukin.

See what i mean ?

a reply to: turretless

You don't seem capable, or willing, to grasp the fact that no-one trusts anything Putin says anymore.
He has lied and lied and lied and shown nothing but contempt for his neighbours.

I'm certain both Finland and Sweden would have been content maintaining their neutrality and just going about their own business free from membership of any trade or military organisation.
But Putin's continued aggression has changed all that.
People are very fearful of the overt nationalism, expansionism and naked aggression shown by Putin and his complete lack of regard or respect for his neighbours.

I'm not sure if your inability to accept and/or recognise that is down to indoctrination, wilful ignorance or shear bloody mindedness....I suspect maybe a bit of all of them?

a reply to: turretless

They really have nothing to gain by deploying nukes against Russia.

They would lose all support from the West.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: turretless

You don't seem capable, or willing, to grasp the fact that no-one trusts anything Putin says anymore.
He has lied and lied and lied and shown nothing but contempt for his neighbours.

I'm certain both Finland and Sweden would have been content maintaining their neutrality and just going about their own business free from membership of any trade or military organisation.
But Putin's continued aggression has changed all that.
People are very fearful of the overt nationalism, expansionism and naked aggression shown by Putin and his complete lack of regard or respect for his neighbours.

I'm not sure if your inability to accept and/or recognise that is down to indoctrination, wilful ignorance or shear bloody mindedness....I suspect maybe a bit of all of them?

I understand the lies of the West, but I do not at all consider myself obliged to agree with them.

The West supported the terrorists in Chechnya.

The West supported the destruction of the Russians in Transnistria.

The West supported Georgia's attack on Russian peacekeepers in Abkhazia and Ossetia.

The West supported any restrictions on Russians in the former Soviet republics.

The West supported all Maidans in Ukraine.

The West supported the destruction of the Russians in the Donbass.

The West supported the process of NATO expansion to the borders of Russia.

Now the aggression of the West met with a counter rebuff and you don't like it.

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: turretless

You don't seem capable, or willing, to grasp the fact that no-one trusts anything Putin says anymore.
He has lied and lied and lied and shown nothing but contempt for his neighbours.

I'm certain both Finland and Sweden would have been content maintaining their neutrality and just going about their own business free from membership of any trade or military organisation.
But Putin's continued aggression has changed all that.
People are very fearful of the overt nationalism, expansionism and naked aggression shown by Putin and his complete lack of regard or respect for his neighbours.

I'm not sure if your inability to accept and/or recognise that is down to indoctrination, wilful ignorance or shear bloody mindedness....I suspect maybe a bit of all of them?

I understand the lies of the West, but I do not at all consider myself obliged to agree with them.

The West supported the terrorists in Chechnya.

The West supported the destruction of the Russians in Transnistria.

The West supported Georgia's attack on Russian peacekeepers in Abkhazia and Ossetia.

The West supported any restrictions on Russians in the former Soviet republics.

The West supported all Maidans in Ukraine.

The West supported the destruction of the Russians in the Donbass.

The West supported the process of NATO expansion to the borders of Russia.

Now the aggression of the West has stopped and you don't like it.

Maybe you just need to build a high brick wall and keep to your side of it.

Putin seems to be the glue that keeps Nato together.

a reply to: Revontuli

I don't understand people like RussianTroll. I have always thought that after over 100 years of rule of dictators Russian people would deserve a democratic country again. Are you so brainwashed?

It's simple, he is simply appealing to the authority in his life.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Freeborn

Would You FOLD in a Poker Game while Holding Only Aces and Eights Before the Last Card is Dealt , and Facing an Opponent showing a Possible Straight ?

I know that wasn't a question to me but it would depend on who my opponent was.