Using Cover And Avoiding The Fatal Funnel

Knowledge of, and utilization of 'cover' in a high risk situation is super dooper importante.

In ANY high risk situatin wether LEO, civilian, armed or unarmed, heck you could be hiking the Katy trail and come up on methed up Chupacabra that just got kicked out of his den by aliens..who knows..Anywho, cover. Finding a center, anchor point, something to improve ones economy of motion. Everything costs.

So first thing..Find something to hold on to. Thats cover.

ghostringtactical.com...

Now then, The Fatal Funnel. This is a bit more complicated. The fatal funnel is to be avoided at all costs, but CAN be used as cover.
The fatal funnel is the spot in an opening where the entire situation, including You is exposed.

i1.wp.com...

You may ask.."How can the Fatal Funnel be used as cover?" That is what I would like one of Our residents to answer as my explination would Im certain be somewhat of a rabling diatribe.

a reply to: didntasktobeborned

You may ask.."How can the Fatal Funnel be used as cover?" That is what I would like one of Our residents to answer as my explination would Im certain be somewhat of a rabling diatribe.

The Fatal Funnel is a fixed point which the enemy knows your coming through , It's usually a door way or hall way . Always in training you would here the words " Don't get caught in the Fatal Funnel " repeated over and over .

Always through the door as quickly as possible to the Left or right or Straight ahead it doesn't matter just get out of the door way is your main objective. An entire team can be flattened coming through a door if they hesitate hints the term "fatal Funnel " .

There is no Cover in the funnel aside from the person in front of you and behind you .

There is no Cover in the funnel

Correct. So,

how does one use that situation for cover? The thing about the funnel is that the opening is so small and fast, so one has to assume that anything in that space IS potentially ones cover. So it has to be secured (the messy part).

Am I way off here, besides the obviously high risk to hostages in this situation? Only looking at self and unit preservation in this circumstance..

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

The Fatal Funnel is a fixed point which the enemy knows your coming through , It's usually a door way or hall way . Always in training you would here the words " Don't get caught in the Fatal Funnel " repeated over and over .

We were taught to get out of the funnel/kill zone and to advance on the attackers, problem comes when there is a cross fire.
you have to commit to one side or the other and hope that the ones behind you are taking the other side.

Plus the first link in the OP is not really cover, it's more like concealment.

Cover offers protection from the incoming fire.

Cover” is anything that can protect you from an incoming projectile, either by stopping it or deflecting it. Most types of cover will also provide you with concealment. Big exceptions to that rule are the solid-glass construction blocks that are used in some houses and commercial buildings. They don’t conceal you or your movements but do protect you from most gunfire. “Concealment” is anything that simply hides you from being seen or detected by someone.

COVER AND CONCEALMENT THESE CONCEPTS ARE NOT ONE AND THE SAME. KNOW THE DIFFERENCE AND HOW TO USE EACH PROPERLY.

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

I was going to say the only cover in a fatal funnel? Meat shields.

a reply to: didntasktobeborned

In most situations a team who knows they have to pass through a door into a Hot room will throw a Frag or Flash-bang dependent on if its a hostage situation .

A flash-bang or Concussion grenade pick your poison will disorient the hostiles for a few seconds giving the team time to pass through the Funnel , or they can place Breaching charge on the Door .

Yes your cover is the man in front of you and the man behind you , you are depending on them to cover all the hot zones which gives you complete focus on your target zone .

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
a reply to: asabuvsobelow

I was going to say the only cover in a fatal funnel? Meat shields.

lol I like your sense of humor mate , and yes your quite right.

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

You know something I always thought was weird was when you see Swat teams or others lining up behind the first guy with a shield, who holding it up about anywhere from a few inches to knee high.

Me if i saw that coming at me, i'd just blow the guy holding the shield legs out from under him and get how ever many I could before they scatter.

In most situations a team who knows they have to pass through a door into a Hot room will throw a Frag or Flash-bang dependent on if its a hostage situation .

We are on the same page.
Thanks for a what I would call a perfect answer to a convoluted question.
I would re-post Your entire reply, but why waste?

Im still green here,,sooo..does this mean thread 'Killed' ?

A "Fatal Funnel" really depends on who is reading the map/layout, and (giving orders) and at what "Education", "Intelligence" level, they've been "educated" to work with.

Are we talking a "Fatal Funnel" for an Army Division? A Brigade? A Company,? A Platoon? A Fire Squad?... Each having their own .."need to know"... "Intelligence/information". Because depending on the "battle"? They all can be and are, disposable.

"Brigade", didn't know that the I.N.A. (after they were "our friends",) ).. had parked two tanks on "my route". But/the "secret squirrel" guys, kept BFTing me, "why aren't you moving"?.. I wanted so bad to reply,... because your "intelligence" ain't very "intelligent". .. But I didn't. ... (Tell me about "Fatal Funnel"?)
Because if it needs doing?... Depending on the scale of things?.. You probably shouldn't be there, doing it.

What weapon/s does the advisory/threat have, at their desposal? Open Grain/wheat/cow pasture, can be a "Fatal Funnel". If they have good Arty and a couple good spotters.

A "battle", (dare I say War)... can be lost over just, "over planning" for first "contact". It seems like a "war" to you, but it is just "Intelligence".."gathering" to "Brigade".

My point is?
If y'all are worried about "Fatal Funnels"? .... You have no business owning a steak knife, or being worried about "Fatal Funnels".

Don't get in a "funnel"!..."Funnels" are bad!

THERE!.. I just saved you, 3 weeks of U.S. Marine "Boot Camp", and 1 week of U.S. Army "Basic".

Got it. Buy a spork, stay away from funnels.

a reply to: murphy22

originally posted by: murphy22
A "Fatal Funnel" really depends on who is reading the map/layout, and (giving orders) and at what "Education", "Intelligence" level, they've been "educated" to work with.

Are we talking a "Fatal Funnel" for an Army Division? A Brigade? A Company,? A Platoon? A Fire Squad?... Each having their own .."need to know"... "Intelligence/information". Because depending on the "battle"? They all can be and are, disposable.

"Brigade", didn't know that the I.N.A. (after they were "our friends",) ).. had parked two tanks on "my route". But/the "secret squirrel" guys, kept BFTing me, "why aren't you moving"?.. I wanted so bad to reply,... because your "intelligence" ain't very "intelligent". .. But I didn't. ... (Tell me about "Fatal Funnel"?)
Because if it needs doing?... Depending on the scale of things?.. You probably shouldn't be there, doing it.

What weapon/s does the advisory/threat have, at their desposal? Open Grain/wheat/cow pasture, can be a "Fatal Funnel". If they have good Arty and a couple good spotters.

A "battle", (dare I say War)... can be lost over just, "over planning" for first "contact". It seems like a "war" to you, but it is just "Intelligence".."gathering" to "Brigade".

My point is?
If y'all are worried about "Fatal Funnels"? .... You have no business owning a steak knife, or being worried about "Fatal Funnels".

Don't get in a "funnel"!..."Funnels" are bad!

THERE!.. I just saved you, 3 weeks of U.S. Marine "Boot Camp", and 1 week of U.S. Army "Basic".

I was taught at this point in the conversation...."Yes Sir/Mam, Would You like another cup of coffee?"

Is a fatal funnel a new term for choke point?

originally posted by: pteridine
Is a fatal funnel a new term for choke point?

I learned it for building entry and room clearing. But the concept can be applied to planting a tree, or bird watching.

New would be relative. 'Choke Point' sounds right also.

originally posted by: didntasktobeborned

originally posted by: pteridine
Is a fatal funnel a new term for choke point?

I learned it for building entry and room clearing. But the concept can be applied to planting a tree, or bird watching.

New would be relative. 'Choke Point' sounds right also.

My guess is that "fatal funnel" keeps troops more aware of the situation and possible consequences than choke point. Herding troops was a common plan in the world wars. Barbed wire fences at 90 degrees to each other with a MG at the apex was the standard of the day, funneling troops into the gun or catching them in enfilade as they tried to breach the wire. Minefields could be used the same way to force enemy troops and armor into pre-zeroed artillery.

a reply to: pteridine

Right. Also why we were taught to identify "avenues of approach" and if they allowed for vehicular movement. Those prioritized weapons deployment for defensive positions.

Cheers

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: pteridine

Right. Also why we were taught to identify "avenues of approach" and if they allowed for vehicular movement. Those prioritized weapons deployment for defensive positions.

Cheers

I wrote a few Op Orders for Naval exercises in a previous life. Straits and approaches to harbors were always in the plans. Minefields, real or imagined, could deny access to areas and funnel ships into other minefields or submarines waiting for targets. These exercises were primarily logistics based wherein merchant ships in convoy or as fast singles were attempting to resupply a given area.

Herding troops was a common plan in the world wars. Barbed wire fences at 90 degrees to each other with a MG at the apex was the standard of the day, funneling troops into the gun or catching them in enfilade as they tried to breach the wire.

Meatgrinder. Timeless.

You all (ATS) are lifesavers, and Im glad to know Youre out there. Theres people on this site that have made significant contributions to the well being of me and my family. Wether they realize it or not. The tolerance here is exemplary. And undeserved...

More on topic..Fatal Funnel at the time was for me a difficult thing to understand..the timing of it...and the fact that in the situation there would most certainly allways be innocents involved, without the possibility of hostages or innocents, the funnel is easily managed...Like another poster mentioned, with a grenade...I still get a little confused thinking about it.

By canting around a corner and laying down suppressing fire one can allow a brief period of time in which to advance to the next cover. Check out UFpro tactical and ASP on YouTube. They cover a ton of tactics pertaining to CQB.