Abortion, the Elephant in the Room

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Annee

You seem all very angry just because people are asking legitimate questions.

No, just definite.

1. my first pregnancy was spontaneous abortion.
2. had 2 living daughters
3. had an elective abortion
4. daughter with late term pregnancy -- was faced with a decision -- that she had the right to make because it was legal.

Have you personally had these experiences?

Have you been faced with making that decision?

Did you live in a time of back alley abortions -- before birth control and legal abortion?

Do you support taking care of migrant children? Or just the unborn?

Again -- I SUPPORT LIVING CHILDREN

a reply to: JAGStorm

Thank you for the calm and reasoned response.

I fully agree that the woman's health should be of primary concern.

And to be honest I don't really like the thought of a future with baby farms or embryo's growing outside of the body.
That's a very scary sort of road to be going down....at least in my mind.

As with most matters of importance there are no easy or straight forward answers.

a reply to: Annee

Did you live in a time of back alley abortions -- before birth control and legal abortion?

Do you still live in that time??

Abortions wouldnt be needed (in other than rare cases) if woman was taught to take control over their body and their choices. Birth control exist you know.

Your body, your choise, your consequences - people need to learn to take some responsibilities and in our day and age, it is possible to protect yourself from unwanted pregnancies-

Dont make make the choise to get pregnant if you dont want the kid - it isnt that hard to figure out is it??

sex becomes nothing more than a heroin hit

That above statement summed it up perfectly. When sex is nothing more than pleasure and not what God intended it as then our own sinful desires wont care what happens to the child. Our society has reached a breaking point. I cant even believe we debate on if killing a kid is ok.

a reply to: Annee

No, just definite.

No, just a locked in perspective that allows for no alternative opinion.
You're right and everyone with a different opinion is wrong.

1. my first pregnancy was spontaneous abortion.
2. had 2 living daughters
3. had an elective abortion
4. daughter with late term pregnancy -- was faced with a decision -- that she had the right to make because it was legal.

Have you personally had these experiences?

Have you been faced with making that decision?

No.
So you are saying that unless we have personal experience of things we can't have a say or valid opinion on something?

Did you live in a time of back alley abortions -- before birth control and legal abortion?

Of course not, do you?
And what on earth has that got to do with anything.

We aren't talking about back in the days when abortion was illegal, we're talking about the here and now.
Where abortion is legal within clearly set guidelines.

Do you support taking care of migrant children? Or just the unborn?

Again, what on earth has that got to do with anything?

Again -- I SUPPORT LIVING CHILDREN

And?
How does that affect the point I'm trying to discuss?

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

I can't believe how much wailing and emotion this subject is causing today.

All the Supreme Court is saying is that each state will determine the rules for killing human babies.

As an African friend (Gillbert) used to say, "You Americans are too pampered and comfortable, with too much time on your hands."

Hmm tough question...

Let a child be born to the responsibility of un willing parents, where most will probably live a life time of misery if chance don't intervene. Just let some people collect welfare cheques by making more, while going though neglected, an abused for most of their early hopefully not later life? All while lacking the foundation to move, while bitching about killing themselves but don't really have the balls, while exclaiming the ungrateful basted will kick my ass!!!

Or just end their misery, an hope God finds them a better place, unless God that pissed an demand sacrifice or penance of some sort?

What to do...

a reply to: TzarChasm

There's a metric ton of nuance to the topic and it is continually dumbed down for people who like simple answers. There is no simple answer.

There is no simple answer. But, Tzar, really there is a very simple answer. It is a two word answer that is lodged so strongly in the minds of those who would strike down Roe v Wade that there IS no room for nuance and that answer is ''Baby Killer''. That leaves no room for nuance at all. It just freezes the mind. Finito the discussion if over. Period. Any suggestion of nuance is immediately and automatically met with ''Baby Killer''.

originally posted by: HODOSKE
Why is it double homicide if a pregnant woman is murdered w/ the fetus, but not murder in the case of abortion in the eyes of "progressive" voters?

because it is a matter of want or unwanted. if it is wanted it is murder if unwanted it is not. a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

The next step in liberal ideology:

The unwanted unproductive elderly being euthanized against their will is not murder because they aren't wanted.

Think I'm crazy, just wait, this is what our society is moving toward, because life to the liberal is only valuable if someone agrees it is valuable. If all agree it is not valuable or wanted, then death becomes acceptable and not murder at all, regardless of the health of the unwanted person (which will eventually extend to the disabled). Which will be cheered on by the liberal left as compassionate and the thing to do to unwanted "unproductive" people.

a reply to: The2Billies
I strongly advise any doubter of those prophetic words to go ahead and read the ACA. Remember we have to pass it to see what's in it.
Totally unrelated to your post but needs to be said.

In regards to "My body my right" i keep seeing in this thread.
The vaccine situation has determined that point to be mute.
Once a woman stated we have to do it for everyone else was the exact moment it was decided that men get a voice now in the abortion issue "For the Greater Good"
Was browsing the want ads today and i saw quite a few jobs requiring vaccination.

originally posted by: Freeborn


With all due respect, you seem increasingly incapable of discussing anything in a reasoned, respectful and calm manner.

The subject of abortion has been discussed out. There have been multiple threads on ATS.

Am I supposed to now be swayed by your opinion?

I'm sorry if you feel offended that my position is solid as granite. Why should it change?

Roe v Wade 

[a reply to: TerryMcGuire
Based on an admitted lie

Norma McCorvey, the plaintiff in Roe vs. Wade, which legalized abortion through all nine months of pregnancy nationwide, admitted that he lied when she claimed her pregnancy resulted from rape. Her lawyers, she says, were aware of the lie:

BK ? If you abort a baby to save a mothers life would be more of a life saver vs a baby killer. If someone's baby dies in the womb or the body aborts a baby it is tragic and saddening and no one should label that person a "Baby Killer"
No one should ever say that to anyone regardless as the trauma they go thru (killing part of themselves) would make it nearly as bad as genociding the baby
A fact is a fact though

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: TzarChasm

There's a metric ton of nuance to the topic and it is continually dumbed down for people who like simple answers. There is no simple answer.

There is no simple answer. But, Tzar, really there is a very simple answer. It is a two word answer that is lodged so strongly in the minds of those who would strike down Roe v Wade that there IS no room for nuance and that answer is ''Baby Killer''. That leaves no room for nuance at all. It just freezes the mind. Finito the discussion if over. Period. Any suggestion of nuance is immediately and automatically met with ''Baby Killer''.

Yeah, I know some types might be compelled to name calling as a substitute for rational dialogue but it's an extremely poor substitute. I can't dictate their language and maturity, only my own.

i agree with you.a reply to: The2Billies

a reply to: Annee

The subject of abortion has been discussed out. There have been multiple threads on ATS.

Then why comment in this thread?

Am I supposed to now be swayed by your opinion?

I doubt anyone could sway your opinion on anything.
Your opinions seem locked in and your mindset refuses to consider any alternative viewpoints.

I'm sorry if you feel offended that my position is solid as granite.

Ha ha....I assure you, I'm not offended.
Why on earth would I be?
Your refusal to consider anything anyone has to say regardless says far more about you than it does anything else.

Why should it change?

🤔🙄

I wish I knew why the two positions are either no abortions at all or allow the murder of newborn babies.

You see most of the rest of the civilised world can get by just fine without either of these two extremes, and the overwhelming majority of people would find either of the American alternatives incredibly stupid, horrifying or both.

In fact abortion is a non-issue in these parts of the world (excluding the troublemaking influence of the Vatican in parts of Europe).

originally posted by: Annee
Why is it anyone else's business besides the woman making a choice.

It isn't.

Why is it anyone elses business who I murder when the beef is between me and them?

Your logic is stupid

a reply to: Hecate666

All the woman who WILL die painfully from inner damage, or blood poisoning caused by unsanitary and dangerous practice are on your conscience.

Another disingenuous take

If they want an abortion so bad they can go to the state that allows it, no back ally needed

This argument is so old and tired that its ridiculous

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Hecate666

so you also feel that the man has no other responsibility other than sperm donor?

I was raised to believe differently, but this new way of thinking is much easier to deal with, and I'm all for it.

No, you either totally misread everything I wrote or you deliberately twisted my words. I never said any such thing. Try and read my posts again.

I am not responsible for those who dismiss a response/answer -- because they don't like the response/answer.

But doesn't the father have any say in the matter?
What if the male involved wants to be a parent to the fetus and is perfectly capable of raising it and caring for it?
Doesn't he have any say whatsoever?
What about his rights?

AGAIN - let me know when paternal DNA testing becomes mandatory.

Let me know when the man is always held legally and financially responsible.


As I've said in the past -- for eons woman has taken 100% of the blame. Been thrown out, disowned, etc.

If the man didn't "step up" -- still the woman's fault for picking the wrong man.

So, now -- if the woman doesn't consider the man -- "Sorry, Dude! You picked the wrong woman".

However, I do know women who carried to term and gave the child to its father. That father picked the right woman.

I SUPPORT LIVING CHILDREN