The rapid division of America (why, Its not why you think)

i get the vision of charlton heston, on the beach, pounding his fist in the sand at the end of planet of the dems

they did it!,

those damn dirty dems!

lol. george floyd sticking out of the sand.

artistic license.

I am with you OP 150%..there is basically no one I can talk to about my beliefs without being labeled a racist bigot when all I truly talk about is respect every single person regardless of their beliefs. As an American citizen, you and I and everyone else is entitled to that. We are entitled to have a belief system that we create out of our own experiences and perceptions. It is downright cruel and evil to attack anyone just because they feel different than you do.

I grew up in a small town in the Midwest, I was the only Jewish kid these people really ever knew. The ones who never left, when they think Jewish I am what they think and know. But there was always a respect there because I showed a respect for their way of life. I joined in and participated, I understood that it was ok to think and feel differently than these people but there was still the need to respect their community and the way it was developed. Don't Rock the boat. Most of us who left, left for better opportunities and some left because of the small town mindset. They understood that you can only do so much and attain so much because in communities like this you adapt to them, even though we are entitled to certain liberties you still have to understand that you can't force people to change to you. Sacrifice the few for the many.

Now im just rambling my apologies. There is a point to the story and that is the rural urban and suburban populations in this country don't understand each other anymore, or simply think their ideas are better for everyone and should be the laws for everyone. It's mostly urban politics being forced onto everyone forgetting that the 10000s of different ways of life in this country don't want the same things or the same focuses. I recently had a good debate with a very Liberal.friend of mine. I had to slam it into his head that social politics don't mean anything and should be ignored. Economic and global issues are the real things that matter and live on..in studying sociology for the past 15 years and watching and observing anyone and everyone for 25+ years you come to realize that societal issues evolve at their own pace depending on the region you're in..but economic issues affect us all equally. Having inept politicians who "represent" our will all while focusing on themselves and their assets at the expense of their constituents has led us here. Its clear our leaders and media don't know what to do but to divide us and anger us. Keep us in a state of unrest.

A great read is the Unabomber, Theodore Kaczynskis, manifesto. Everything he stated there is truer today than it was during his time..his detachment from everything... I understand it more and more everyday. Study the ones who our government forces us to hate qnd you'll understand the real state of affairs. 168-1.. understand that and I believe you'll understand our country much better.

originally posted by: dleeb
I am with you OP 150%..there is basically no one I can talk to about my beliefs without being labeled a racist bigot when all I truly talk about is respect every single person regardless of their beliefs. As an American citizen, you and I and everyone else is entitled to that. We are entitled to have a belief system that we create out of our own experiences and perceptions. It is downright cruel and evil to attack anyone just because they feel different than you do.

I grew up in a small town in the Midwest, I was the only Jewish kid these people really ever knew. The ones who never left, when they think Jewish I am what they think and know. But there was always a respect there because I showed a respect for their way of life. I joined in and participated, I understood that it was ok to think and feel differently than these people but there was still the need to respect their community and the way it was developed. Don't Rock the boat. Most of us who left, left for better opportunities and some left because of the small town mindset. They understood that you can only do so much and attain so much because in communities like this you adapt to them, even though we are entitled to certain liberties you still have to understand that you can't force people to change to you. Sacrifice the few for the many.

Now im just rambling my apologies. There is a point to the story and that is the rural urban and suburban populations in this country don't understand each other anymore, or simply think their ideas are better for everyone and should be the laws for everyone. It's mostly urban politics being forced onto everyone forgetting that the 10000s of different ways of life in this country don't want the same things or the same focuses. I recently had a good debate with a very Liberal.friend of mine. I had to slam it into his head that social politics don't mean anything and should be ignored. Economic and global issues are the real things that matter and live on..in studying sociology for the past 15 years and watching and observing anyone and everyone for 25+ years you come to realize that societal issues evolve at their own pace depending on the region you're in..but economic issues affect us all equally. Having inept politicians who "represent" our will all while focusing on themselves and their assets at the expense of their constituents has led us here. Its clear our leaders and media don't know what to do but to divide us and anger us. Keep us in a state of unrest.

A great read is the Unabomber, Theodore Kaczynskis, manifesto. Everything he stated there is truer today than it was during his time..his detachment from everything... I understand it more and more everyday. Study the ones who our government forces us to hate qnd you'll understand the real state of affairs. 168-1.. understand that and I believe you'll understand our country much better.

I agree with all you said very well thought out post.

This is what America is you blend in chip in help out and get along beliefs don't matter what matters is your fellow men and women.
Join in with the spirit of America.

I think the timeline for when the serious division actually started is slightly off. I remember it very clearly, and it's been posted already many times. But let me give a little reminder.

It was 2011/2012. When OWS was a really big thing, and most people agreed with the basic outline of the movement when it first started. After all, people were becoming aware of the elite class that rules this nation. The "cabal" if you will being the 99%.

There was also another movement called the "liberty movement". These were a massive amount of individuals, many in college and many just people with something called "common sense" whom supported Ron Paul, (The majority of ATS supported him at the time, there were actual polls) a Libertarian GOP candidate whom exposed the Federal Reserve, spoke of lobbyist corruption, and putting an end to the IRS and the Military Industrial Complex.

Many Paul supporters liked the idea of OWS, and began to attend the rallies and educate OWS goers of some solutions DR.Paul introduced to end this corruption that seemingly everyone wanted to get rid of. The merging of the two movements could have been a historic revolution.

But then it got weird, almost like overnight. OWS began to start calling people racists, they banned Paul supporters on their official site and even banned phrases like "end the fed". Then OWS went bat # insane, and then the very far left, the same ones that organized blac block, then later BLM etc was born. Hence why we have the division we see now.

Just thought I would throw this out there again because people forget so easily. ATS was VERY involved with the 2012 election and the liberty movement. A lot has happened since then but it's important to remember where it really started.

originally posted by: vkey08
a reply to: tanstaafl

You are dead wrong about the news not covering SovCits and the Moorish Temple,

I didn't say they weren't covering them, I said if it really was a big problem, we'd be hearing about it non-stop all day every day - like we did the Russia hoax.

We aren't, therefore it isn't a real problem, it is a made up problem.

As far as voter fraud, not one person has been able to prove it,

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, it is people like you that keep beating that dead horse.

I can't help it if you have chosen to remain blind to the truth.

-snip- the rest

It's the fact that no-one can hold a discussion anymore without the sort of attacking you just did in your post.

I didn't attack anyone or anything. I stated facts - and like a typical leftist, you took being exposed to facts as a personal attack. Not my problem, friend.

a reply to: tanstaafl

When you state someone is not awake it's an attack, not a fact. I have scoured hundreds of places looking for this supposed fraud, can't find one court case, that is a fact, cannot be argued, therefore it goes to prove that to this point, not one person ha been able to prove fraud to the extent that some keep stating has happened.

As for not covering something 25/7 making it not a real problem but a made up one, that's a load. Just because something isn't in the national news cycle every day and al the time does not make it a non-issue. I could list off at least 100 items that SHOULD be covered in the news that they won't or don't because of ratings, they'r trying to get ratings, and as such, some stories fall by the wayside. But when you have to deal with the idiots 24/7 it ceases to be a made up issue and becomes very real.

By the way, I'm a registered Republican. Have been since 1989, kinda kills your "leftist" label... Just because I don't see today's R as what it should be, doesn't mean that deep down I'm not a Reagan Republican. Voted R until Trump, even in 2016 I technically voted Republican, wrote in John Kasich. He had parts of his platform I agreed with with regards to Special Needs children, of which I am a parent of.

You seem to be angry all the time, nothing can be discussed with you without anger and hatred spewing out. I don't hate Trump, I can't stand his actions. He reminds me of the schoolyard bully, and when something doesn't go his way he lashes out like a child. I've already said Biden should resign, so I won't go back into that. But let up on the anger, maybe you'll see something you're missing in all of this.

a reply to: Wookiep

I thought that too at first, but unfortunately Paul supporters and OWS only had at most 70K people active at any given time. Not enough of a population to sway the larger group.

I have seen it more since the Furguson incident. My phone lines light up with the stupidest calls from people claiming their rights were violated by some person because they were charged tax on a candy bar. Well I hate to break it to them, CT does charge a 6% sales tax on candy.. then they get really mad..

Most of the callers are claiming that if they don't get the last thing on the shelf at a store and it goes to a white person it's racist and a civil rights issue, if they get charged X it's racist, I mean the list goes on to the point that people should be looking around them.. Heck have one guy in the neighborhood that thinks since he's African American he can do anything without consequence, until the local PD picked him up for something.. then it's racism ..

a reply to: vkey08

You're gravely mistaken with your numbers. All major MSM outlets had to remove not just polling, but their chat functions based on the massive majority voting for, and supporting Ron Paul. In fact, this was the time when millions of people woke up to the fact that the main stream media omitted info, ignored facts, screwed facts, or outright lied. I didn't even mention the MSM factor in this, but there are so many threads, including ones I mentioned that completely annihilate your 70k number (not even sure where you got that from). There were MILLIONS of Paul supporters. When he won 2nd (prolly first in reality) in the Iowa straw poll, all of the media, including Fox completely ignored it. They mentioned every other place except 2nd, it was so pathetic that John Stewart (a staunch "liberal") even did a bit about it.

I don't think you have a clue of the caliber of the situation at the time. Either that, or you're being deliberately dishonest.

The people behind the "Ferguson incident" were the same people who stepped in and #ed with the OWS movement.

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: vkey08

You're gravely mistaken with your numbers. All major MSM outlets had to remove not just polling, but their chat functions based on the massive majority voting for, and supporting Ron Paul. In fact, this was the time when millions of people woke up to the fact that the main stream media omitted info, ignored facts, screwed facts, or outright lied. I didn't even mention the MSM factor in this, but there are so many threads, including ones I mentioned that completely annihilate your 70k number (not even sure where you got that from). There were MILLIONS of Paul supporters. When he won 2nd (prolly first in reality) in the Iowa straw poll, all of the media, including Fox completely ignored it. They mentioned every other place except 2nd, it was so pathetic that John Stewart (a staunch "liberal") even did a bit about it.

I don't think you have a clue of the caliber of the situation at the time. Either that, or you're being deliberately dishonest.

The people behind the "Ferguson incident" were the same people who stepped in and #ed with the OWS movement.

Ron Paul himself put the numbers out back then, as to active donators etc. That is where the number comes from, that and the fact that while he may have won second in the straw poll, he didn't last too long in the general primaries. Most of that was due to his lack of appeal to many in the electorate, who saw him as a crackpot conspiracy theorist.

It's always nice to go back in time and think that he had so much more support than he did, makes everyone feel good and emboldens his kid to keep mouthing off. But in reality, if he cracked 1 million votes in all the primaries combines it was a miracle.

So no it's not being dishonest to state that like many others, his numbers were artificially inflated to make him look better than he really was. I mean seriously, he didn't really have anyone's best interests at heart.

14 delegates out of 2360 does not equal millions of supporters.

Of course comments like this didn't help him:

The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian... America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. - Ron Paul

Or.. maybe this comment

At least 39 white woman have been stuck with used hypodermic needles — perhaps infected with AIDS — by gangs of black girls between the ages of 12 and 14. - Ron Paul

There is no way on this Earth that Ron Paul had "millions and millions of supporters". Even the most fringey people would shy away from anyone making statements like those.. Of course Little Paul (Rand) isn't much better.

... every piece of anti-discrimination legislation passed over the past few decades ignores one of the basic, inalienable rights of man — the right to discriminate. - Rand Paul

Yeah... Think that I'll stick with the 70K core supporters, rather than the made up millions.

originally posted by: vkey08
a reply to: tanstaafl

When you state someone is not awake it's an attack, not a fact.

If untrue, it isn't an attack, it is an incorrect assessment/opinion.

If true, is a fact.

By the way, I'm a registered Republican.

I'm an independent. Many 'registered republicans' are just democrats in disguise. Means nothing.

]quote]Have been since 1989, kinda kills your "leftist" label.
Not at all, it just proves the fact that being a registered republican doesn't mean you are immune to falling for leftist propaganda.

You seem to be angry all the time, nothing can be discussed with you without anger and hatred spewing out.

All I do is point out the fallacies and bad arguments of others. If you are the kind of person that takes t hat as a personal attack engaged in out of anger and hatred, that is your problem.

Hmmm, on second thought, yeah, I guess you could say that I have a hatred of lies/propaganda, so there is that.

I don't hate Trump, I can't stand his actions.

Which actions?

I agree he tweeted many silly/dumb things, but the vast majority of his actions with regard to POLICIES were fully consistent with an 'America agenda.

He reminds me of the schoolyard bully, and when something doesn't go his way he lashes out like a child. I've already said Biden should resign, so I won't go back into that. But let up on the anger, maybe you'll see something you're missing in all of this.

Nah, mean tweets don't bother me.

Insane leftist policies that pursued by people who appear to be hell bent on destroying my country? Yeah, that bothers me. I'll take a bunch of mean tweets any day over that garbage.

a reply to: vkey08
I see you haven't responded since our initial conversation.

I take that as you must be trying to troll as you tried to say crt isn't being taught and you tried to portray people who groom children for pedophilia as dog groomers.

Since you havent responded I will just assume you are trying to troll on the wrong site.

a reply to: Themaskedbeast

You basically summed it all up, we have lost the spirit of America first and foremost. I hate that we identify by our cultural background first then only add American after. For instance, im a Jewish-American and my wife is a Mexican-American or however you choose to identify today. But what needs to happen and should happen is we should put American at the front. So I'd be a. American-Jew and my side a ln American-Mexican. It is that shared American for all of us that unites and binds us together. Or as you said the Spirit of America. We need to stop being ashamed of our past and realize that without the experiences of the past we are nowhere near where we are today. Sure terrible things happened but that's not unique to us by any means. Every nation at one point or another has violated and eradicated or enslaved parts of their populations. All great nations have been built on the backs of those who deserved better. And lots of them throughout history, all over the world, stood up and fought for where they are today.

You can only ever move forward by embracing the sins of the past and embracing the important lessons to be learned. We need to stop blaming one another for those past sins and realize that all that remains of those generations are important lessons on how to move forward together. Instead we are trying to erase and force ideas down people's throats. And history again shows us time and time again this is not the way forward never has been and we are not anything special where it will be different this time. Because day by day, it's abundantly clear the divisions and hatred are only deepening and entrenched in yet another generation.

a reply to: dleeb



Don't have anything to add friend beers on me.

I'm going with most of this starting around 2008. I think Musk's chart is correct as to what is going on. Obama helped start it all and Trump was just gasoline on a fire.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I'm going with most of this starting around 2008. I think Musk's chart is correct as to what is going on. Obama helped start it all and Trump was just gasoline on a fire.

So you are saying Trump made the left go way off the deep end?

How exactly did he do that in need some explanation 🤔

originally posted by: Themaskedbeast

So you are saying Trump made the left go way off the deep end?

How exactly did he do that in need some explanation 🤔

I didn't say that, he just helped accelerate their craziness.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Themaskedbeast

So you are saying Trump made the left go way off the deep end?

How exactly did he do that in need some explanation 🤔

I didn't say that, he just helped accelerate their craziness.

How did he help accelerate their craziness?

It seems to me it seems to be they were already there just a bit less loud.

originally posted by: Themaskedbeast
How did he help accelerate their craziness?

It seems to me it seems to be they were already there just a bit less loud.

Well first just winning, and then 4 years of mean tweets didn't help. Add in the endless attacks on him allowed the left to assume things that were not true but justified their extreme views.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Themaskedbeast
How did he help accelerate their craziness?

It seems to me it seems to be they were already there just a bit less loud.

Well first just winning, and then 4 years of mean tweets didn't help. Add in the endless attacks on him allowed the left to assume things that were not true but justified their extreme views.

I agree with all but the justified their extreme views.

I don't know how anyone could get to that point.
Other than being brainwashed.

It boggles my mind what could drive anyone to the extremes we see one side going?

If I don't respond today it's because dinner and bedtime which is 8.

Gotta be up at 230 for work.

Sorry if we derailed I don't think we deviated much.

a reply to: vkey08


You can believe what you want about the numbers. It's the same BS the media used to parrot. Ron Paul had one weakness and that is he rarely argued with the media, or their "official" fake numbers.

However, you also neglected to factor in OWS. The point there being, someone threw a wrench in the very real possibility of a genuine revolution, and the wrench came in the form of "wokeness" on behalf of OWS. This is when all the fun terms like everyone is "racist, mysogynist, homophobic" etc etc. Welcome to the era of wokeness and division. Deny it all you want but that's the reality.