The rapid division of America (why, Its not why you think)

I blame the increased division on the perception of safty granted by the anonymity and solitude of online discourse. Even in cases where the identity of the writer is known, they are still protected by miles of electric equipment between them and anyone who may take offense to what they have to say.

Even this OP which is attempting to be balanced is riddled with snark for the current right wing of this country; comments that probably would not have been made if this conversation was face to face with the majority of this forums membership.

We need more in-person discourse and less online discourse to get back to where we use to be. Its not until we actually have to defend the words we use will we be more mindful of what we say.

If it's worth saving the one thing we could do is:

ANYTHING passed through Congress (House & Senate) needs 80% approval, all laws, bills, appointments, etc.

Which means they would need more than half of the other side to pass anything.

Which will serve to split up the other side in both cases.

Eventually, this may foster the formation of a 3rd Party, maybe even a 4th.

The division in this country is driven by Congress, the media, and the WH.

I blame a lot of this on social media, and the actual media.

I work in a facility of 2000+ people. We have all walks of life and political backgrounds (far left progressive types to staunch sovereign citizen types or far right with Alex Jones stickers all over their work station). At work, everyone gets along. There's no political arguing, there's no nastiness to one another, there's no calling each other "terrorist" or any of that nonsense. People go to work, they work together to do their jobs, and they leave. How society should be.

However, once they get home and get on social media, it's a totally different story. That is where the nastiness comes out, the accusations, the claiming the "other side" is the enemy, etc etc. The media encourages it, many politicians encourage it, and social media is a platform for it all to happen on.

originally posted by: dandandat2
I blame the increased division on the perception of safty granted by the anonymity and solitude of online discourse. Even in cases where the identity of the writer is known, they are still protected by miles of electric equipment between them and anyone who may take offense to what they have to say.

Even this OP which is attempting to be balanced is riddled with snark for the current right wing of this country; comments that probably would not have been made if this conversation was face to face with the majority of this forums membership.

We need more in-person discourse and less online discourse to get back to where we use to be. Its not until we actually have to defend the words we use will we be more mindful of what we say.

Yes I agree with this 10000%. The ability to hide or mask one-self online has allowed people to act in manners that most would NEVER do in person in normal society.

See my post above about people at work vs on social media.

originally posted by: dandandat2
I blame the increased division on the perception of safty granted by the anonymity and solitude of online discourse. Even in cases where the identity of the writer is known, they are still protected by miles of electric equipment between them and anyone who may take offense to what they have to say.

Even this OP which is attempting to be balanced is riddled with snark for the current right wing of this country; comments that probably would not have been made if this conversation was face to face with the majority of this forums membership.

We need more in-person discourse and less online discourse to get back to where we use to be. Its not until we actually have to defend the words we use will we be more mindful of what we say.

My snark as you call it comes from being called a "diseased chink spreading Kung-Flu" one too many times, but if you had read all my comments you would see I have no use for the current administration as well, and that Harris scares the heck out of me.

Everything I have said here, I have said in person to various people. Side effect oh being called a "Kung-flu carrying diseased chink" for the past two years, because some idiot went on National TV and called the disease the "China Virus" without thinking of the major disaster they were creating for all Asians... I have also made that comment before, right to a certain supporter of said person's face.

Said supporter took a swing, said supporter now has a broken arm. I don't pull punches in person, and I don't pull them here. Unfortunately, I am not alone, others are just as vocal, and much much more prone to violence.

As for "the majority of the membership here". My entire point is how a good portion has turned away from civility and gone down the dark path of name calling and brow beating. Even people that in 2014 were level headed and calm.

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: vkey08

Agree on everything but about Trump, while outwardly it may have looked like he was doing things right, the damage he did to our law enforcement and intelligence communities will be years in the fixing.

Taking into account how they ganged up on him from the get go, I think you're being a tad disingenuous since by your own admission you were closer than most to the governing elite. Of course, I speak from a place of limited information being merely an observer going on what the public knew and my own intuition so there's that.

Gods I miss being called a shill

More like a yes-man. It must be thrilling to ply your trade at such a high level in the most powerful country in the world. I can respect that.


In my opinion you lay a lot of blame on the common people, an observation I don't agree with.

These past few years it seems nothing that happened was an organic movement.

Elites poisoned the wells, people merely chose from which one they drank.

I have over the years gotten myself into lots of trouble with my bosses for not being a "yes-person" (Girl here, proud of it too)

But on the flip side I did get to see, you are right, some things everyone else didn't and it frankly scared me. I cannot stress enough that Trump brought a lot of what he got on himself. He was never really prepared, didn't think before he spoke, and made some comments that up until him would have gotten him very odd looks, if not outright hate. Had he come across a little more, can't even think of the word I want to use, ahh yes, humble, maybe just maybe people would be able to take him a bit more seriously. I mean really can you actually say that you didn't have second thoughts when he asked if bleach injected would kill Covid, or started to rant and rave about "fake news" and Some of his more interesting quotes:

"[John McCain is]... not a war hero. He's a war hero - he's a war hero 'cause he was captured. I Like people that weren't captured, OK, I hate to tell you."

"Sorry losers and haters, but my IQ is one of the highest - and you all know it! Please don't feel so stupid or insecure, it's not your fault."

"She does have a very nice figure... If [Ivanka] weren't my daughter, perhaps I'd be dating her."

and of course let's not forget

And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. ... Grab 'em by the p*. You can do anything

This who you're defending? I would postulate that both Trump and Hillary are the same, just opposite parties, we had no real choice in 2016. 2020, same thing, we had no real choice.

Biden is the polar opposite, you can't respect a person that has very little respect for themselves. He never should have run, he is obviously gotten worse in the past two years and probably has some sort of cognitive decline, if not the beginnings of some sort of dementia. The fact that he ran just to get rid of Trump, shows he doesn't respect himself enough o know when enough is enough.

originally posted by: Nyiah
a reply to: vkey08

Ok, I read/re-skimned this OP 4 times now.

What's this reason the thread title hinted at you knowing, but your OP actually...not telling that punchline.

In other words, who's the damn boogieman supposed to be?

All of us, for failing to act sooner to stop it all. and I mean ALL of us.. We didn't step up with a unified voice and say enough was enough, we instead passed laws to protect the absolute smallest subset of the population and forced stuff on everyone. We needed to be unified instead we were divided.

Xeunchen seems to think it's the MSM doing it, but it isn't.. They wouldn't report as they do if we didn't eat it all up.

Sometime after 9/11 it all fell apart

originally posted by: Themaskedbeast

originally posted by: vkey08

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: vkey08

Yeah, I don' see that happening while we have a political party trying to pass bills to promote voting fraud so that they can never be voted out of office and creating the DHS Ministry Of Truth.

Let me guess, I am spreading disinformation?

When you call an official Government office "The Ministry of Truth" when that is not it's actual name, and doing it to be disparaging, yes. If it was a descriptor being used to show what you think it will become, no.

fyi: its actually and accurately called the "Disinformaion Board"


Would be the same as calling the US Space Force, "Crash and Burn"

As far as S1 and HR1, there's a lot of things in it a lot of states already do including some predominantly R states. I read the bill in it's entirety and only the auto-registration and felons voting parts stick out as "new ideas"

Well when the disinformation board is headed by someone whos pushes flat out lies doesn't it make more sense to call it what it is?

The ministry of truth.

I agree, If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

originally posted by: vkey08
Trump and Biden are symptoms of this phenomenon, one of course bit more extreme than the other,

Yeah, Biden is really truly extremely whacked, isn't he...

We have a very very resurrected Sovereign Citizens movement,

Very very resurrected? Hardly... if they really were, we'de be reading about them all the time. I can't remember the last time there was anything of substance regarding any 'Sovereign Citizen' nonsense. Not saying they don't exist, but it is certainly not 'very very resurrected'...

and splinters of those like the Moorish Science Temple, that tells it's members (Predominantly African Americans) that they own the USA and everyone is just here because they say so.

Never heard of them. Again, if t hey were relevant, we'd be hearing about them nonstop in the MSM. The fact that we're not completely disproves your assertion.

We have racial tensions that haven't been seen since the heaviest days of the Civil Rights Movement,

I disagree with this one but it is difficult to quantify the comparison, but I'd simply ask - whose fault is it? I'll also answer: the radical leftists in control of our government right now.

We have Asians (Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese etc) being harassed in stores and other businesses by other customers for being Asian, I mean I think I've heard the term "Diseased Chink" more times in the past two years than Iever had thought imaginable.

Again, your assertion is simply not true, simply because if these events were happening as often as you say they are, we'd be seeing these reports non-stop in the MSM.

I do not like our current occupant, but I know that in 2 more years, using my voice, I can help elect someone new. I can wait.

This statement makes it clear you are not awake. The evidence of massive fraud and a stolen election in 2020 is overwhelming - but apparently only to those willing to see it.

We are at a crossroads, should we allow this collectively to continue, or work on ways to come back together. Or is it just too late?

Define 'coming back together'. The left defines this as us capitulating to their madness. Sorry, done with it, ain't gonna happen.

There are some things that you simply cannot compromise on, and the radical left agenda - all of it - is one of those things.

a reply to: tanstaafl

You are dead wrong about the news not covering SovCits and the Moorish Temple, there have been rashes of articles and bulletins and the like all over about them, if you aren't seeing them, not my problem.

As far as voter fraud, not one person has been able to prove it, it's a dead horse, keeps gettin beaten as a rally cry now.

The "far left agenda" is another made up issue. While there are portions of some really off the wall Democrats that simply would never work in this country, and should never be tried, if you really really understood even 1/4 of what you're spewing, you would not be so judgmental.

Some ideas are simply common sense. Some have been twisted by whomever is reporting it to be the boogyman.

Some ideas are crud. Manchin had it right when he said that we need to balance exploring new and renewable energy with the Fossil fuels we currently have, and make a compromise between the two. AOC of course won't stand for that, and for that, the little bartender must be voted out. She is a problem.

On the right, the word "Groomer" has become a buzzword, y'all use it but don't know what it means. It's been pushed so hard, just like the election fraud lie that it's almost too big to die. But it needs to. 99.9% of this country are not what would be described as groomers, some people are what could be considered sick, but I don't think they go and take care of the hair and hygiene of others. That's what a "groomer" is by definition, someone that uses their talents to do hair, nails, etc.. Not making someone trans or gay.

While we are on the subject of things that don't really exist, but have now taken on a life of their own, Critical Race Theory. In it's original form CRT was a valuable training tool to show and figure out where in the society and institutions that blatant racism was being practiced. The basics of it are simple, teach that we used to have slaves, having slaves was bad, we have moved past that. Now CRT is somehow demonizing white people and making people ashamed of who they are, that's not CRT that's stupidity.

As far as your assertions about Asians being harassed, Congress had to pass a special hate crime law to deal with the problem, as such it exists, even if not number one item in the news. The Gateway Pundit will never talk about it, because they like to use terms like China Virus or Kung Flu on their site, racist terminology for a scientific item, in this case SARS-CoV-2.

Back to the "Squad" Ilihan Omar should be excused from Congress, if she wants to protect her racial and religious freedoms, she cannot make sweeping condemnations of others. Unfortunately she does, and therefore is part of the problem.

AOC again, the woman has no concept of basic economics but purports to try and pass laws dealing with it, this is part of her agenda that you are absolutely correct, needs to be stopped before she drives our currency into the toilet.

But I digress, again, just because you don't see things daily doesn't mean they don't exist or are not prevalent, just that you in your daily life are not exposed to them. I on the other hand deal with a 1st Amendment Moron running all over town filming everyone (especially kids for some reason) because "REASONS". He's been arrested, he's been warned, yet he keeps doing it, there are many more like him, YouTube is full of them.

Moorish Science Temple members are stealing houses in the SE USA by squatting in homes for sale or that are sitting there after a foreclosure, they believe, wrongly that the property belongs to them anyhow, so hey, I can just take this because again "REASONS".

Y'all are missing the finer point. It's not about Election Fraud Lies, or Critical Race Theory (An interesting aside, it wasn't until THIS YEAR that it became an issue, it's been in use since before I was born). or AOC or Bernie and his Democratic Socialism. It's the fact that no-one can hold a discussion anymore without the sort of attacking you just did in your post. If it isn't right in front of you it doesn't exist, and if there's no proof, keep screwing that this is and maybe someone else will believe you.

a reply to: vkey08

Wrong on groomer it has more than one meaning.

Groomer person who tries to normalize sexuality to preschoolers and kindergarteners when they have no concept of gays and trans.

Critical race theory isn't what it used to be now it is a tool teaching that whites are born racist oppressors of minorities.

Also minorities can never get ahead because of the white man it's all bull crap and should not be taught to anyone.

Hope that helps clear those 2 things up a bit.

originally posted by: Themaskedbeast
a reply to: vkey08

Wrong on groomer it has more than one meaning.

Groomer person who tries to normalize sexuality to preschoolers and kindergarteners when they have no concept of gays and trans.

Critical race theory isn't what it used to be now it is a tool teaching that whites are born racist oppressors of minorities.

Also minorities can never get ahead because of the white man it's all bull crap and should not be taught to anyone.

Hope that helps clear those 2 things up a bit.

No.. Groomer has been CORRUPTED to mean what you're saying. For thousands of years it did not mean that. Corrupting or co-opting a word does not change its initial meaning.

CRT has not changed, teaching hatred towards ones own race is not CRT, nor is the narrative that blacks can't get ahead.

Both are what is known as "talking points" scapegoats used to rile up a segment of the population

Something like a Democrat using the word "Fascist" to describe Trump.


Details are important as are words, if you cannot say what you mean, then y'all can't mean what you say.

a reply to: vkey08

Sooo, the boogieman isn't a tangible person or thing so much as you're for a static society in a fluid universe.

That's a bit like ramming the square peg through the round hole, in that a static society is really only achievable via force (Russia being a good current static society example)

Things will change, change goes on unabated in perpetuity as it is. Question is, can you live with changes you dislike that benefit others but not you, or the more palatable reverse? And I am asking a black & white question here for a reason, there is no grey zone -- your ideas, or theirs?


Sorry to get philosophical on folks, but IMO, it's really the originally unwritten, uncodified ideals of others' personal philisophy you have a beef with, not the coalesced, codifed government end result of it & agreeing like-minds.

Everyone favors those free-choice & free-to-choose-the-direction democractic tactics, until you get little RoI on a venture, maybe even after multiple tries.
Then the pendulum starts to shift, always has & always will in response.

I really don't see how you can prevent that, it's a natural progression for disliked outcomes. Self-direct & maybe attempt to shift opinions on a person-by-person basis is about all ya got here, because anything else is effectively opening yourself up to If You Can't Beat 'Em, Join 'Em controlling territory.

a reply to: vkey08

Yes both words have been corrupted by the political left they are trying to normalize pedophilia and they are trying to teach just what I said in CRT.

Plenty of threads on both subjects if you don't believe me.

Just like the political left calls the florida parental rights bill the don't say gay bill which is another complete lie.

Both sides lie bit only one side openly tries to divide and label.

It's all they do just like if Republicans win the midterms it will be the end of our democracy.

We don't live in a democracy we live in a constitutional Republic.

Words had meaning before now the left make up new meanings for words.

Can you define what being a woman is?

a reply to: vkey08


I agree with you there were times when a little tact, a little humility would've helped his cause immensely.

Calling out fake news I don't mind, they went full retard over him.

In terms of public opinion he could've won over more people if he weren't so brash at times, something I struggle with myself(lol).


However it comes from a very personal promise to yourself that nobody will # you over, ever again. I can be very gentle believe it or not but there's that flipswitch which brings out the junkyard dog.

When you're threatened this is exactly who you want to put in between you and whatever it is that has become problematic.

I do think America's enemies backed off during his tenure because of that but yeah, I do get your point.

The reason I enjoyed him so much was because he truly stood up for America, a quality sorely lacking in all the West with the current lame assed crop of 'leaders'.

a reply to: vkey08

I have over the years gotten myself into lots of trouble with my bosses for not being a "yes-person" (Girl here, proud of it too)

Well I respect that even more as I do think women have more of an uphill battle in certain environments than men. In my profession I've met a few woman that I would prefer having my back over (most) guys I have worked with. Battle tested and solid as a rock.


Let me ask you straight, do you see a way out of the boiling water?

Perhaps there will be factors at play that have not yet been introduced.

Most people will not go along with the madness of Klaus Schwab4th industrial revolution , we're too oldstubbornwise to the shenanigans to ever accept it except under the worst kind of duress.

Our values will never change.

How do you see this unstoppable force/ immovable object scenario playing out?

a reply to: vkey08

You are falling victim to the same affects you are talking about without even knowing it. Example: "They use sites that we here on ATS would have shunned just 10 years ago..." "We" is a word you need to be very careful in using. I don't shun any site providing information. I perform due diligence as well as I can and understand that truth can be found anywhere.

You make a point of saying that both sides are too blame. While I agree with that, our current position is not due to both sides equally. If truth is the goal here then I can say yes, both sides are to blame, but no, they are not equally to blame. The left is far and away the bigger part of the problems we are experiencing that are driving us apart. The hypocrisy from the left on so very many topics is just one factor driving a wedge between us. Trust the science! Science lies! The science has changed! Not everything is solved by science! Pick one and deal with the fact that it will not support each and every agenda bullet point you want to foment. But no, keep changing your view every time a new bullet point emerges and make it all about that, until the next pivot happens. Its a never ending dervish of insanity.

And lets not forget who are the ones being exclusive and aggressive. The party of tolerance and acceptance is the most intolerant and exclusive ever in the history of this nation. All you need do is whisper an opposing view to be branded an enemy of the state. And with the new Ministry of Truth (I cant say that without regurgitating a little in the back of my throat) a difference of opinion will result in fines and ultimately incarceration. And this being brought to us via the convenient excuse of protecting free speech!

The lies never end...

a reply to: vkey08

Cnn and fox were always fear mongerers....and the issues progressives protested about were always there you just never heard about it.

originally posted by: vkey08
Or is it just too late?

Too late.

When there is no minimal agreement on WHAT the core principles of the country should be, consensus is a pipe dream.

What comes next is anyone's guess, but it won't be good.

Sorry guys I think I broke her to much truth at one time