Rust set footage further indication Alec Baldwin is lying about shooting

originally posted by: LastFirst
Partially pulling the hammer back before the half cock click, can cause a fire if the spring had enough joules..

Without touching the trigger.. especially in cowboy colt types.

But isn't the cylinder rotating at that point?

a reply to: smurfy

Who operated the firearm? Alec Baldwin or the woman he shot?

Who operates a plane? The pilot or the passengers?

It is the legal responsibility of anyone operating a potentially dangerous device to take reasonable precautions to ensure safety of those around them. It is not the legal responsibility of those around the operator to take such precautions.

"NEVER discharge a firearm when the barrel is clogged. The Property Master
(or, in his/her absence, the weapons handler and/or other appropriate
personnel determined by the locality or the needs of the production) should
inspect the firearm and barrel before and after every firing sequence"

Firstly, that is from a guild, not the law.

But it also specifies before and after every firing sequence. That is not every time the trigger is pulled. When preparing to use (or even to potentially use) a firearm I will inspect it; every time I finish using a firearm I will inspect and clean it. That's common sense. But while firing it? No, unless there is some indication of a malfunction.

I had a barrel blockage once. I was firing a S&W Model 66 .357 Magnum with reloads. The powder was apparently old; I fired the gun, the shell went off, and I heard the bullet hit the ground probably 30 feet in front of me. The sound of the round was also muffled. I fired another round, thinking maybe I had accidentally loaded a dud. This time I did not hear the bullet hit the ground, but the sound was still muffled. At that point, I inspected the barrel and saw it was blocked.

I immediately stopped using the gun until I was able to dislodge the bullet from the barrel. I also immediately unloaded and then destroyed the batch of rounds I had loaded and disposed of the powder.

A firearm with a clogged barrel is quite dangerous. If fired a second time, the new bullet will have nowhere to go, so the exhaust cannot exit the barrel. That means it will exit somewhere else, possibly resulting in burns to the shooter from wayward hot gases or even breaking the barrel open. Yes, I know, we see it in cartoons... but it can and has happened. When it does, it can send shrapnel back to the user.

I mentioned that for completeness in my post, and wanted to include some indication of how immensely dangerous a clogged barrel can be. There is a lot of misinformation about firearms and firearm safety going around, and some people will try very dangerous things if not specifically cautioned first.

The law does not recognize movie sets as any sort of special circumstance. Some individuals who work in the law may do so, but they are not following the law.

TheRedneck

a reply to: vonclod

But isn't the cylinder rotating at that point?

The cylinder rotates from the hammer, not the trigger. On double-action, the trigger can also cock the hammer, but it is still the hammer which spins the cylinder. The cylinder also stops rotating before the hammer is completely pulled back, just to ensure that the gun does not fire between rounds.

Many have mentioned in other threads about the different clicks a hammer makes when pulling it back. The very first click is the cylinder locking into place.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: face23785

I really hope not. if Alec Baldwin is that... inhuman... he should not be allowed to walk around free, much less be admired as a celebrity.

I admit despising the man, but I can't imagine anyone being that cold-hearted. To see the life drain from an innocent person's eyes and to know that you pulled the trigger that ended them... that's the stuff nightmares are made from!

Worse, she had a daughter if I remember correctly... now an orphan. All over a single careless omission of a minute's time.

TheRedneck

The only thing Alec Baldwin cares about is ... Alec Baldwin.

This is the outcome he's looking for: Ca itlyn Jenner - Vehicular Homicide (no charges filed)

a reply to: Snarl

Let's be fair here... no one is looking to go to jail for manslaughter. If it were you or I, I still doubt we would walk up to a judge and plead guilty. We would both hire an attorney to try and keep us from being locked up. That's why we have courts in the first place.

We were discussing personal guilt, as in what a person typically feels after such an event. That's different from legal guilt.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
Let's be fair here... no one is looking to go to jail for manslaughter. If it were you or I, I still doubt we would walk up to a judge and plead guilty. We would both hire an attorney to try and keep us from being locked up. That's why we have courts in the first place.

We were discussing personal guilt, as in what a person typically feels after such an event. That's different from legal guilt.

Never walked in those shoes, so I can't say. But, I'd have a hard to declaring myself 'innocent' after taking someone's life. Accident ... or not.

Baldwin's interview. Do you remember him talking about his interaction with the director? Do this? Is this better? Like this? Bang!! I think he knew the gun was loaded. That he drew no sympathy was where his action backfired.

If his case winds up in front of a jury ... he'll likely go to jail for a long long time. He shot her. There's no question of that. Blaming the gun is just a front.

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: LastFirst
Partially pulling the hammer back before the half cock click, can cause a fire if the spring had enough joules..

Without touching the trigger.. especially in cowboy colt types.

But isn't the cylinder rotating at that point?

If you only pull hammer back partially it won't travel the cylinder.

All those little click g sounds inside are actions.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Thanks for the info fellas. I know more today than I did yesterday. That's the goal, right?

a reply to: TheRedneck

I have to disagree a bit. While rare, people do sometimes plead guilty without a plea deal. They just have to have the integrity to own the fact that their personal guilt translates into legal guilt. They know they broke the law and are responsible for their actions, so they plead guilty.

That kind of character is unfortunately rare in our society. It's always someone else's fault.

originally posted by: Gyo01
a reply to: TheRedneck

Thanks for the info fellas. I know more today than I did yesterday. That's the goal, right?

Gun discussions on here are particularly frustrating because we often have people who come in with zero clue what they're talking about espousing uninformed views that they got from the media or gun control advocacy groups. There are people here who are very knowledgeable and can set the record straight, but most aren't willing to listen.


Kudos to you for not being one of those people, for being open-minded and willing to learn.

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: TheRedneck

I have to disagree a bit. While rare, people do sometimes plead guilty without a plea deal. They just have to have the integrity to own the fact that their personal guilt translates into legal guilt. They know they broke the law and are responsible for their actions, so they plead guilty.

That kind of character is unfortunately rare in our society. It's always someone else's fault.

Seen this happen.. Judges have vast influential power and sway with juries. I have jaw dropped at times when an offender comes clean, and throws their selves openly at the mercy.. I have seen judges basically lobby to the jury throughout the entire trial about forgiveness, mistakes, humanity etc.. and the VERDICTS and SENTENCES show a seriously reduced punishment.

originally posted by: LastFirst

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: TheRedneck

I have to disagree a bit. While rare, people do sometimes plead guilty without a plea deal. They just have to have the integrity to own the fact that their personal guilt translates into legal guilt. They know they broke the law and are responsible for their actions, so they plead guilty.

That kind of character is unfortunately rare in our society. It's always someone else's fault.

Seen this happen.. Judges have vast influential power and sway with juries. I have jaw dropped at times when an offender comes clean, and throws their selves openly at the mercy.. I have seen judges basically lobby to the jury throughout the entire trial about forgiveness, mistakes, humanity etc.. and the VERDICTS and SENTENCES show a seriously reduced punishment.

People value honesty and contrition.

Obviously a totally different situation, but when I was in the Air Force, if I screwed something up, I came clean with it. I always found that my superiors appreciated that and consequences were usually less than I observed when people tried to lie about their mistakes.

a reply to: Snarl

I haven't walked in those shoes either. I just think that if I did shoot someone accidentally, I would be riddled with personal guilt... and still want to stay out of jail.

That's all I am saying: there is a wide difference between feeling guilty and admitting guilt.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Gyo01

That's my goal: educate when I can, learn when I can't. That's why I only participate in a small minority of threads... I'm reading and trying to learn.


TheRedneck

a reply to: face23785

I have to disagree a bit. While rare, people do sometimes plead guilty without a plea deal. They just have to have the integrity to own the fact that their personal guilt translates into legal guilt. They know they broke the law and are responsible for their actions, so they plead guilty.

Oh, I agree! I just wouldn't put Alec Baldwin in the short list of those with sufficient personal integrity to plead guilty.

I would hope he at least feels guilty. If not, that is the mark of a true psychopath.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Fair enough. And thanks for all your input on this thread. It's good you actually got to enlighten some open-minded people, even if some others had no interest in learning.

I always look at these threads if we even reach one person, it's worth it. Even if no one posting sees reason, you never know how many lurkers are learning.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: vonclod

But isn't the cylinder rotating at that point?

The cylinder rotates from the hammer, not the trigger. On double-action, the trigger can also cock the hammer, but it is still the hammer which spins the cylinder. The cylinder also stops rotating before the hammer is completely pulled back, just to ensure that the gun does not fire between rounds.

Many have mentioned in other threads about the different clicks a hammer makes when pulling it back. The very first click is the cylinder locking into place.

TheRedneck

Sure, my thought is, once you start pulling the hammer back, the cylinder starts to rotate, I think at half cock it ends up up between two loads, and at that point, it will spin free. My point is, once you start pulling the hammer back, is the primer even lined up?

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Snarl

I haven't walked in those shoes either. I just think that if I did shoot someone accidentally, I would be riddled with personal guilt... and still want to stay out of jail.

That's all I am saying: there is a wide difference between feeling guilty and admitting guilt.

TheRedneck

My biggest problem with Baldwin, has been his complete denial of even feeling any guilt..thats some sociopath kinda stuff.

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: vonclod

But isn't the cylinder rotating at that point?

The cylinder rotates from the hammer, not the trigger. On double-action, the trigger can also cock the hammer, but it is still the hammer which spins the cylinder. The cylinder also stops rotating before the hammer is completely pulled back, just to ensure that the gun does not fire between rounds.

Many have mentioned in other threads about the different clicks a hammer makes when pulling it back. The very first click is the cylinder locking into place.

TheRedneck

Sure, my thought is, once you start pulling the hammer back, the cylinder starts to rotate, I think at half cock it ends up up between two loads, and at that point, it will spin free. My point is, once you start pulling the hammer back, is the primer even lined up?

I only own one revolver, it's a Ruger Redhawk in .44 Magnum. I got it for hiking when I lived in Alaska.

I haven't shot it in a while, but as I recall, if I pull the hammer partway back and then release it, the cylinder returns to its previous position and there is still a round under the hammer.

originally posted by: TheRedneck

Firstly, that is from a guild, not the law.
TheRedneck

That's why I said those articles were advisories, I also linked to them.

I still think though that people should wait to see what the investigation throws up, then argue the toss afterwards...with whatever takes they have in mind.