Did Ukrainian forces blow up the Moskva, a Russian warship full of ammunition?

a reply to: carewemust

Paper Tiger springs to mind.

They have bitten off far more than they can chew.

Putin has set relations with the west back centuries with his little Ukrainian wet dream.

originally posted by: whywhynot
Russian military is showing itself to be very inept. a reply to: carewemust

Definitely!

a reply to: carewemust

Like 5 min ago there was some hippy dippy chick on fox news "We must arm Ukraine!" It was so weird to watch...Its the same fake outrage the left always displays with that hippy voice. Why in the # are so many people carelessly cheering on a potential WWIII?? And why is this hippy bitch on Fox news?? Lol.

Anyway, Russian state TV has said WWIII has already started. Doesn't matter how much propaganda they spew, this is now how the Russians think of this situation.

I think Russia allowed it to happen and scuttled it. Now they can stay in the fight after 'a great loss'....It is all about the media image at this point.

just to clarify
the Moskva was a Guided Missile Cruiser
Flagship of the Black Sea Fleet

originally posted by: matafuchs
I think Russia allowed it to happen and scuttled it. Now they can stay in the fight after 'a great loss'....It is all about the media image at this point.

I think not. I believe that Russia isn't the power that some have made it out to be. Pretty much the same as Iraq. Putin knows this and he knows that his only option is to rattle the nuclear sabre.

a reply to: matafuchs

We don't know how many times the vessel was attacked, nor if the Ukrainians learned from their previous attempts at sinking the ship. Also, scuttling the ship is at odds with the reports of fire setting off munitions. Moreover, the ship was constructed in Ukraine so that design weaknesses would have been known in advance.

a reply to: carewemust

We don't know if crew members "volunteered" to remain on board in firefighting and damage control roles. But if damage control, maintenance and firefighting skills/capabilities equal logistics on land, things would have gotten out of hand quickly.

originally posted by: xpert11
a reply to: carewemust

We don't know if crew members "volunteered" to remain on board in firefighting and damage control roles. But if damage control, maintenance and firefighting skills/capabilities equal logistics on land, things would have gotten out of hand quickly.

The Pentagon says 500 men (and women?) were aboard. Even though this article says it's describing the Neptune missile, it really doesn't. Interesting short read, nevertheless..

www.cbsnews.com...

a reply to: carewemust

An excellent read, and the presence of lifeboats suggest the crew had time to abandon the ship. So an out of control fire is more likely behind the sinking than a catastrophic incident related to the ship's magazine. (Although the fire eventually reached the ship's munitions).

I am not in a rush to read too much into the incident. However, beyond the absence of information, the geography of the Black Sea/surrounding areas, signals intel, radar detection measures, and years of contingency planning stacked the deck against Moskva.

First images of the sinking warship have emerged.

a reply to: gortex

www.bing.com... l=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.d0cbd730d945b6416e878709fa9b1074%3frik%3domWpZ6S3LfRgog%26riu%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fphotos.wikimapia.org%252f p%252f00%252f01%252f24%252f34%252f34_big.jpg%26ehk%3dg3hrb9UPRTRO2gDdjl8BXbZbxzwWccQ1D5VriRJWQs8%253d%26risl%3d%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=558&expw=7 00&q=hijms+mikuma&simid=608030656305983872&FORM=IRPRST&ck=928A822DB7332943FBDE3E34EAD42A6E&selectedIndex=0

World War II Japanese Heavy Cruiser MIKUMA - Battle of Midway

The ship had collided with its sister ship MOGAMI while evading an American submarine Then was subject to air attacks
and took 5 bomb hits which ignited the torpedoes fueled by Kerosene Fires detonated the torpedo warheads

Notice similarity of damage

Ukes claim two hits by Neptune cruise missile MOSKAVA had 16 large SSN-12 missiles in exposed launchers , missiles fueled by kerosene A hit here would ignited the missile fuel and cook off the missile warheads same as torpedo on MIKUMA

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: carewemust

Like 5 min ago there was some hippy dippy chick on fox news "We must arm Ukraine!" It was so weird to watch...Its the same fake outrage the left always displays with that hippy voice. Why in the # are so many people carelessly cheering on a potential WWIII?? And why is this hippy bitch on Fox news?? Lol.

Anyway, Russian state TV has said WWIII has already started. Doesn't matter how much propaganda they spew, this is now how the Russians think of this situation.

With heavier more deadly weapons arriving in Ukraine from the USA over the next week, we'll see if Russia is content with destroying them before they can be "unboxed" and transported to the South and East in Ukraine.

Hopefully they will be satisfied with doing that, instead of getting mad and damaging U.S. property somewhere on the planet.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: carewemust

Like 5 min ago there was some hippy dippy chick on fox news "We must arm Ukraine!" It was so weird to watch...Its the same fake outrage the left always displays with that hippy voice. Why in the # are so many people carelessly cheering on a potential WWIII?? And why is this hippy bitch on Fox news?? Lol.

Anyway, Russian state TV has said WWIII has already started. Doesn't matter how much propaganda they spew, this is now how the Russians think of this situation.

With heavier more deadly weapons arriving in Ukraine from the USA over the next week, we'll see if Russia is content with destroying them before they can be "unboxed" and transported to the South and East in Ukraine.

Hopefully they will be satisfied with doing that, instead of getting mad and damaging U.S. property somewhere on the planet.

It's not so much 'more deadly' that the russians should be worried about right now, it's the longer range and much more accurate artillery that should be a real concern for them.

russia has set up for an armored offensive led by artillery in the south and east, Ukraine can already match the russian armor, but they've been getting absolutely battered by russian artillery for a few weeks.

The systems and ammo we just sent them have a much longer range than the russian guns, along with a CEP of 5 meters for GPS guided rounds.

Basically the same bore size that Ukraine has already, but much longer range and much more precise.

This will be an absolute game changer in the East if Ukraine gets them deployed in time.