18,000 Russians dead in Ukraine War .

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

I'm willing to bet you couldn't even point to the continent Ukraine was on three months ago.

I could make the same bet with bio-labs... Everyone is an expert now...the US has bio-weapon labs all over Ukraine, ya right...

As to your bet, got beck to 2014+ and you should remember all the posts about Crimea. That is around when you started on ATS, so you should remember. Those posts were about the same as today with the rest of Ukraine under attack. How people forget this isn't our first rodeo with Russia and Ukraine...lol geez

So now that I won what do you and ISeekTruth101 owe me?

a reply to: ISeekTruth101


I was aiming for something you 'might' actually understand.

Do you need crayon drawings?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101

Care to elaborate on your comparison?

In general capabilities. The F-117 was just a one dimensional aircraft that of to fly pretty straight to a way point and drop a bomb, so it had a ton of limitations, but did have the stealth. The stealth of a F-22 is extremely more advance and capable to that first gen stealth of the F-117. The F-117 can basically only fly from point A to point B and drop a bomb, slow, not very maneuverable, A true sitting duck if spotted.

Now talking about an F-22... Crazy levels of capabilities....So yes its like comparing a 172 to a F-117 in just about every way.

I retired from the Air Force in 2008, and the last 5 years in I worked under a 2 star. He came back from Red Flag pissed off one year as he was a F-15 driver, and 4 of them went up against 2 F-22 and all he said was the F-22 cheated. Basically wiped the 4 F-15s before they could hardly start. 1 F-22 could most likely take out 6 F-15s with its capabilities and we are just talking electronics and stealth, and not also thrust vectoring, speed etc.

Ok so just for context, in my original conversation with PatriotGames there was no discussion about comparing the F-22. To the F-117.

There was no discussion about the manoeuvrability of the F-117. Though I do note on a documentary by the US airforce and F-117 pilots that the F-117 plane was more manoeuvrable than you think and akin to flying an fighter jet I’ll share this with you later and timestamp those comments.

Furthermore, I think its obvious that the F-22 would have stealth improvement over F-117 being a later generation aircraft, however the KEY note here is that the F-22 is stealth capable and the F-117 is primarily a stealth aircraft. There is a BIG difference between those distinctions.

Going back to the original conversation, I was discussing how an F-117 1980s tech was downed by a soviet 1960s missile platform.

No mention of an F-22 or the acrobatics of the F-117. Just talking about the stealth capability of the F-117for its time 1999 the incident it took place.

In light of the original conversation No one should care about what we have today or since as that is out of scope.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Sure there was, you just didn't want to hear it due to some kind of fascination with ancient technology that isn't even used anymore.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

I'm willing to bet you couldn't even point to the continent Ukraine was on three months ago.

I could make the same bet with bio-labs... Everyone is an expert now...the US has bio-weapon labs all over Ukraine, ya right...

As to your bet, got beck to 2014+ and you should remember all the posts about Crimea. That is around when you started on ATS, so you should remember. Those posts were about the same as today with the rest of Ukraine under attack. How people forget this isn't our first rodeo with Russia and Ukraine...lol geez

So now that I won what do you and ISeekTruth101 owe me?

If you explain how you won you get your dignity back.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Sure there was, you just didn't want to hear it due to some kind of fascination with ancient technology that isn't even used anymore.

The only thing ancient was the missile system that smashed USAs multibillion dollar F-117 stealth bomber program to the ground by a third world country.

Joke of the century.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101


Why are you so fascinated with your false story about technology that hasn't been used in decades and won't be used in Ukraine?

A lot of reading comprehension problems and slow learners, so I’ll repeat again to help the mentally challenged.

The F-117 was downed by a 1960s missile platform. That plane was designed primarily for stealth and failed against and old ancient soviet missile platform operated by a third rate military.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101

No mention of an F-22 or the acrobatics of the F-117. Just talking about the stealth capability of the F-117for its time 1999 the incident it took place.

In light of the original conversation No one should care about what we have today or since as that is out of scope.

I just saw your question about the Wobbly Goblin and answered it without going back X number of pages. I use to fly to Tonopah in the mid 80s.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101

The F-117 was downed by a 1960s missile platform. That plane was designed primarily for stealth and failed against and old ancient soviet missile platform operated by a third rate military.

So 70s technology was downed by 60s technology, got it.

The F-117 can also be downed by 1600 technology called a bullet. For context we can also look at the gulf war where it had over 1300 sorties and 1600+ accurate high target hits without a loss, so we can see a lot more went into that failure in Yugoslavia outside just the soviet missile capabilities.

I think it was the movie The Great Santini when he was shot down by one shot from an antiquated rifle... Can happen to the best of them.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101


The 117s are no longer being used by anyone.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: ISeekTruth101


Why are you so fascinated with your false story about technology that hasn't been used in decades and won't be used in Ukraine?

Oh you forgot already?

It was to shutdown super uber patriotic USA folk such as yourself touting USA technology as being the best in the world always, and how Russia is so backwards and dumb they can’t building anything useful, as you claimed.

Well I’m here to deny ignorance and keep the lies at bay. Here is another historical FACT, USA werent the first ones in space despite the superiority over mankind that you push all the time.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: ISeekTruth101


The 117s are no longer being used by anyone.

Quote me where I said they are still being used.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101

The F-117 was downed by a 1960s missile platform. That plane was designed primarily for stealth and failed against and old ancient soviet missile platform operated by a third rate military.

So 70s technology was downed by 60s technology, got it.

The F-117 can also be downed by 1600 technology called a bullet. For context we can also look at the gulf war where it had over 1300 sorties and 1600+ accurate high target hits without a loss, so we can see a lot more went into that failure in Yugoslavia outside just the soviet missile capabilities.

I think it was the movie The Great Santini when he was shot down by one shot from an antiquated rifle... Can happen to the best of them.

1983 tech to be exactly was downed by 1960s tech.
And no I dont believe the F-117 can be downed by a bullet from the 1600s

And finally, its less about then ability to shootdown the plane using munitions and more about the ability to track it and lock onto it being the stealth is the F-117 PRIMARY weapon/advantage-feature-benefit

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

No 117s have been in use for decades.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: ISeekTruth101


The 117s are no longer being used by anyone.

Quote me where I said they are still being used.

This is a thread about certain current events, why do you keep bringing up a plane that hasn't been used for decades.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101

If you explain how you won you get your dignity back.

Come on, why does onside always need to go to personal attacks and degrading comments lol

I think I did by saying that we have been talking about that area since 2014 and so looking at my calendar that is over 3 moths ago.

As I said, this isn't our first rodeo with Russia and Ukraine. We already know the ending of this book... spoiler alert... look at Crimea.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

No 117s have been in use for decades.

Quote me where I said F-117. Has been used in the last few decades?

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: ISeekTruth101


The 117s are no longer being used by anyone.

Quote me where I said they are still being used.

This is a thread about certain current events, why do you keep bringing up a plane that hasn't been used for decades.

I think you brought it up, otherwise quote where I started it.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Then why keep bringing it up in a thread about current events in Ukraine?