I'm really very sorry

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: rickymouse

I appreciate your response, however, I do have something to say.

First, if you use violence to train a dog, all you are creating is a violent dog. If you leave a dog in a car in the summer you should be arrested for cruelty - period. Even if the windows are cracked open. Why? Because in a car in the sun the temp inside can still reach fatal heights for dogs, even with the windows cracked. You wouldn't sit in that car under those conditions. Now imagine doing it in a fur coat and your only method of controlling you body heat is to breath harder. Sound like fun?

So yeah, take your dog for a walk on a hot summer day. Beat him when he pulls on the leash or doesn't follow you. Or maybe take your shoes off and walk on the same hot pavement you are making the dog walk on for a while and then let someone beat you when you try to step into the shade. Sound like fun?

I have sat in a car in the summer, not running, waiting for the wife in the store many times in my life. Having all the windows open a quarter way is enough to keep the car cool enough to stay in even in the hot sun around here. Now, maybe down south it is a different story, but around here it rarely gets over ninety outside in the heat of the summer. Now going into the store for twenty minutes is not going to hurt the dogs if the windows are down a little. It is not like leaving a baby in the car when you go into the store.

Slapping a dog on the nose when it snips at a kid is not beating the dog. It would be way worse if you couldn't trust the dog around kids. I won't even get a dog anymore since people are so weird about things. I have had dogs and they were friends, they liked going for a ride and I would go into the store to get groceries while the dog waited in the car or truck patiently, I usually got the animal a treat when I was in there. Would you rather I left the dog chained up at home than take it to the lake to swim? You cannot take a dog into the store with you, you cannot take it into the restaurant when you order take out either.

So, since people are now crazy about this kind of thing, it is better not to adopt a furry friend anymore. I have even been told that I need to take our cat to the vet when it is sick, we know how to take care of them....our cats usually live into their twenties except for two that got a blood clot in their backs from jumping off of things...they went to the vet and both times the vet said they are going to die because of the paralysis of the legs. They wanted to put them to sleep, we told them no, I spent the night on the couch with one of those till it died as I did with other cats that died of old age. One time the vet told us we should put our cat to sleep and it went down into the basement and licked the mildow off the walls of the basement and she lived two and a half years more...She died at twenty two years old...healthy until the last week and a half...again, I slept with her on the couch for a couple of days and she died in my arms and was purring up until the two minutes before she died.

I have seen so many busy bodies wrongly assess things in respect to animal cruelty lately it makes me sick. Some people love their animals but people start saying crap about how they treat their furry friends. Sure there are some jerks that do mistreat animals, but not all people who slap their dog when it does something dangerous is mistreating them. I have had to shoot some animals that got mean and we had to bring my father in laws dog to the vet to be put to sleep when it died because it would snap at the daughter, it was old and got tempermental. I felt bad about these things, but if a dog gets weird and you can't trust it to be civil, it needs to be put down. Old dogs get that way sometimes. Something goes bad in their brain. I haven't had to put down someone else's dog for forty years...been asked say no. I don't like shooting a dog, never did. Now if my own cat or dog was suffering, and it could not be fixed, I would feel it was my responsibility to put it out of it's misery. I would not want to bring it to a vet to have it done....it trusts me, it's friend to do what has to be done. That is the way I was brought up.

a reply to: rickymouse

Well, many states disagree with you and so do I. You can sit in a car with the temp rising and it will affect you less than it will affect your dog. You can sweat to regulate your body temperature, you dog cant. Of course the temp outside matters but the temp inside the car will rise more than most people think.

Studies have shown that even on a mild day with windows cracked the temp inside a car can rise 19 degrees in the first ten minutes. 35 degrees in 30 minutes. 45 degrees in just under an hour. If it was 90 degrees outside after 45 minutes the temp inside the car is around 130 degrees. That is way too hot for an animal that cannot perspire to regulate body temp.

Plus there are several other factors that come in to play. The size of the dog, the length and type of coat, the length of the muzzle, the age of the dog, the weight of the dog, all play a roll in how well it can withstand rising temps in a car. Remember, the dog can only pant to regulate its body temperature. If it is breathing in hot air then it has virtually no ability to regulate its internal temperature at all. That is cruel, even if the dog survives. Dogs are not people, they do not experience that event the same way we do.

As for smacking, slapping, whatever you want to call it, it is not the way to teach a dog anything. You smack him on the nose when he nips at someone. Along the top of the nose are two narrow canals made of cartilage that dogs breath through. They are not very strong and can easily be broken limiting the dogs ability to breath. Many people know this and instead give the dog a good smack on the rear end. Thats great, if you want to damage your dogs kidneys. A dogs kidneys are on top of its hips near the hind end. Kidneys are very sensitive organs and can develop bleeds very easily.

The reason parents used to give children a smack on their rear end is because that part of the body is all muscle and fatty tissue. Where is the equivalent on a dog? Answer: there isn't one. No matter where you hit a dog, you are hitting something that can be damaged or broken. The chest/shoulders are the best bet if you insist on striking the animal. But there are better ways to teach.

You used the example of the dog nipping at a child several times. Studies have shown that it is usually the child who is rough with the dog, poking, pulling, hitting, etc, that causes the dog to nip the child in response. Then the dog is smacked around by the owner for it. The child is the one who should be corrected in that situation since it was the child's behavior that caused it. If you wouldn't smack the child for that incident, you shouldn't smack the dog either. You cant blame a dog for being a dog nor can you punish that behavior out of them. Trying to is nothing but cruelty.

Of course there are times when the dog just nips at someone for reasons people will never understand. It is the owner's responsibility to take control of the situation before it happens. If you know you dog does that with strangers for example, you don't put the dog around strangers and wait for it to nip at someone so you can smack it. You don't put the dog in that situation at all. It is irresponsible on your part. If it is the first time the dog is meeting new people, do it correctly. When introduced the people should be seated and relaxed, leaning back a little if possible. the reason for this is when the dog approaches them the first time he is sizing them up just as they are sizing him up. If the dog moves towards them and they react by leaning back, that is a submissive gesture in dog language telling the dog to move closer and be the dominant one. You have just given that dog permission to be in charge of that person, which includes administering punishment for behavior it feels is wrong - a nip or more. If the dog approaches a person, then turns its back on them and sits, that is a submissive gesture from the dog. And most importantly animals know that other animals, when frightened, are the most dangerous. That includes people. Dogs aren't stupid. They understand behavior and body language better than most people ever will.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: rickymouse

What are you talking about, if you slap a dog on the snout, you don't hit it hard...You slap it just to show it is not supposed to do it, you would have to hit it hard to damage it. You also change your voice at the same time and the dog learns to equate the change of voice with it doing something wrong. Same with swatting at a dog when you want to get it to stop doing something, you just slap it, that is far from beating a dog. But people see you slap your dog because it did something wrong and they seem to think you are beating it. It is a way of getting their attention, then you say...stop it and point at them. When their attention is drawn by another dog going by, sometimes you have to remind them to be civil or to not act like a horndog in heat.

Usually all of the training is done when they are young. Never hit an animal too much, only when it is doing something wrong and always tell it what it is doing wrong...they learn to understand. If you hit your dog too much, they think it is normal, and they do not learn. Never hit it hard, or it can make them bad. The trouble is that people these days are too opinionated, they do not comprehend what you are doing.

I had around five dogs during my lifetime, they were good natured and well trained by the time they were about a year old, never had to punish them for doing wrong again...and once they got old and senile, a slap doesn't work anymore, they need to be kept away from people.

I have known quite a few people over the years that locked their dogs in a cage when others were around...they did not train them properly and locking them in a small cage in the living room is inhumane to me. They need to be trained to be friendly and civil so they can interact with others and have freedom. I had two dogs that walked about ten steps in front of you...you stop they stop...I had their leash in my hand, just in case the cops came around so I could hook it up. Both were friendly and civil, no risk of biting anyone or attacking another dog or trying to hump it. I even had a dog that I called off another dog from fifty feet away, I did not want the neighbor complaining of our dog getting it knocked up...it came right to me when I called it. Alex was a great dog. He even sat on side of me as I pulled out quills from his mouth when he got into a porcupine one time.

Animals should be our friends, we need to train them to be sociable. Same goes for kids, never spank a kid without telling them why they are getting punished and why they should not do that. I never had to spank any of my kids after they got over four, and like training a dog.....you change your voice so they know you are upset. My daughters are in their late thirties and early forties and they know that voice means I am not happy with them to this day. They will stop challenging me when I change my voice.

Your pet is a part of your family. I was a boss for many years, if your workers did things wrong you warned them and if they kept it up you canned them. You cannot fire your kids, you cannot fire your pet...they need to know who is in charge because they are your family, you cannot fire them. Family is family. I don't want to have to have a dog put to sleep or bring it to a shelter, they are lifetime friends.

I see so many people bringing their pets to the Humane society because they can't control them or got them when they could not afford to take care of them or they did not have access to a new apartment that allowed pets. Or the animals behavior was bad because it was not trained right. That is cruel, animals need companionship, relationships that last their whole life just like we desire.

A well trained dog will not nip at a kid or anyone, they are smart and can learn civility better than most of the people I know have learned.

USA is number one!!

a reply to: Vroomfondel

All my life I have held the belief that the USA was a step ahead of the rest of the world in all the things that really mattered.

Why?

It's a mystery to me how anyone can think this, when the truth is so evident. When you look at Europe, and the 'happiest countries', you can notice MANY things they have done better, that USA is struggling with, like city infrastructures that are CAR-centric in USA, but PEOPLE-centric (or bicycle-centric) in some European countries.

USA and Canada have lots of 'Stroads' (the worst thing ever invented), Europe has much fewer of them. Look for a youtube channel 'Not Just Bikes' for very interesting and well-done explanation videos about this type of stuff.

American 'healthcare system' is also very inhuman and capitalistic, instead of being common-sensical, like it is in Europe. No matter what happens to you, the first priority is in 'healing/treating you', and the monetary stuff comes in second, if it happens at all. I have had several treatments done for me in the recent years, completely free. I am sure it would all have cost in USA.

I have lived in other countries, but I have visited USA and some asian countries a couple of times, and besides weird things like not taking off your shoes inside (don't your floors get dirty?) and wasting a lot of water when it comes to a toilet bowl (having your feces floating RIGHT under to your buttocks, almost touching, is disgusting to me, but whatever) and even more of a waste when it comes to food (you are not supposed to eat ALL that's on your plate, which is sickeningly crazy to me), I don't see much of what would be different enough to be so proud about it.

The roads don't seem to be in as good a condition as they're in Europe and Japan, the money is actually worse, because someone blind can't easily tell what bills they're holding (in Europe, you have been able to do this for decades, as there's braille and the bills are of different sizes), you can't drive your car very fast in USA, but look at German's Autobahn and over 200 km/h is the norm, the Imperial system is much more confusing than metric, which is logical (0 °C is freezing point of water, 1000 meters is a kilometer, measuring how tall someone is is so easy with just centimeters or meters - and meter is 100 cm of course)..

I mean, when I compare USA to Europe, Japan and some other places, I don't see why USA would be considered 'number one', except in the international phone book; yes, you have to dial ONE to get to USA!

So as I said earlier, USA is number one! But only in the phone book..

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing THAT bad about USA, it seems pretty 'normal, civilized place' to live, but its social culture is based on lying to each other ('Hi, HOW ARE YOU' never means 'Greetings, I wish to inquire about your wellbeing at the moment', but it just means 'Hello, whatever' or even 'F off, I don't want to talk to you' depending on the case), because you have to 'protect everyone's feelings' instead of 'everyone being strong enough to be able to handle the truth'.

It's the land of the free, but you're expected to become a wage slave for all your life, unless you're super rich, then you're expected to just be a worshipped idol.

There are good things about USA, of course - the constitution, the bill of rights and other similar, very sensible things that some ingenious people actually bothered to write down. The old American architecture is amazing, USA has produced some really wonderful movies and music, technology and even 'cultural icons'.

We must remember that Nikola Tesla moved to USA and became an American inventor as well.

I could mention great computer games and such as well, of course, but I think I made my point.

USA is not special in my opinion; it has good sides and bad sides, just like about every other country. To me, it's just an ordinary country among other ordinary countries, its buildings and people are ultimately the same as European buildings and people, generally speaking. Sure, USA has skyscrapers and such, but it also has ordinary living quarters, apartments, suburbian homes and same type of personalities you can find in Europe easily.

USA is number one, but it also has many things it could improve, but so does every country in the world. I think Japan is actually ahead of the curve, when it comes to 'cleanliness of big cities' and 'trains arriving in time' and other such things, Japan's social structure seems a bit more conformist, but for that reason, maybe a bit more functional as well. There are many comparisons that can be made between all kinds of countries, that would be way beyond the scope of this post, but I just wanted to give a bit of my perspective to USA compared to other countries.

a reply to: Shoujikina

A step ahead in the things that really mattered... not everything. I think we got the idea of freedom right. At least the idea is right, whether it works in real life is still being tested. But we have only been at it about 250 years. Give us as much time as other nations have had and I think we will be better off. But, we do have our own 'Let them eat cake' thing happening right now and it sucks just as much here as it did in France.

Europe has a much larger bicycle culture than the US. Is that because of a conscious effort on the part of all Europeans to use bicycles instead of cars? No. Its because the cities are old and are buildings are wagon-widths apart. Modern cars don't fit in a lot of European streets. Only very small cars could make it quite a few. So it wasn't as much a choice as it was a necessity.

In the US the roads are basically built on standard rail gage dimensions, which will fit a rail car, and as such are perfectly suited for automobile traffic. But, auto traffic does more damage than foot traffic or bicycles, so yes, European roads are generally in better condition more often than US roads.

I have travelled also. You find sitting on a bowl with your feces floating below you disgusting? One of the most sickening things I had to endure was a public toilet that was nothing more than a reeking hole in the pavement, a stub of pipe sticking up out of the ground, and nothing more. Yeah, that is so much better. Yay Asia.

No, we don't usually take our shoes off inside. Why do Asians insist on smelling feet when they dine? Foot odor isn't that appealing to me. Body odor is pretty sick making as well, so do us all a favor, try some deodorant once in a while... Dowsing yourself in perfume doesn't fix it. Neither does pretending everybody stinks as bad as you do. There are a whole lot of countries out there where people are walking around with body odor that could knock a buzzard off a sh!t wagon at 40 paces. That isn't better... And when there they are in large groups or cities...its just plain nasty.

I agree with you on the healthcare system. Its disgusting. Its all about money. The patient is just an ATM. It needs to change.

We grew up being told to clean our plates. Wasting food was as close to a sin as you could get without bringing religion into it. But then food quality dropped and portions went unmanaged so cleaning your plate became an undesirable thing to do in many cases. If portions were proper and the food was better cleaning our plates and feeling good about it would not be a problem. For many people it isn't a problem. For some it will always be difficult.

I cant think of a single country that does everything right. On a subjective wellness scale most countries rate about the same. Its hard to imagine, but its true. On a subjective wellness scale, a guy living in the midwest in the USA middle class is no more or less happy than a guy living in a grass hut in a village on the edge of a jungle with no electricity or running water. They seem like they should be lifetimes apart yet they are both relatively happy in their day to day lives.

When I think of other countries as potential homes, several things keep popping up. One is taxes. Some countries are downright crazy with the taxes. Its like they are all run by democrats or something. Wars popping up all the time is another downside in my humble opinion. I also like to have some room to move, room to relax. Many countries have very little personal space compared to the US. I get uncomfortable in enclosed spaces. Not quite claustrophobic, but close enough to make me stay out of old fashioned phone booths unless the call is really really important. I like a yard with grass and some room for a grill. I like a two car garage with two cars in it. Big cars. I like the American way of life, except for American politics and some dumb a$$ people who cant keep their hands off other peoples stuff. But I also like the right to have a gun to defend my family and our stuff.

Is the US a step ahead of the rest of the world? I think that depends on your priorities. For some that answer is yes. For others its no. I think most people probably believe the land they call home is a little better than most other places. To believe otherwise is to admit you are living beneath your expectations, unless you feel you should not be allowed to have something better...

a reply to: rickymouse

What are you talking about, if you slap a dog on the snout, you don't hit it hard...You slap it just to show it is not supposed to do it, you would have to hit it hard to damage it.

Absolutely wrong!

How hard would you slap a child's adams apple to get them to stop misbehaving? For that matter, exactly how hard do you have to hit an adams apple to damage it? Is it the same for everyone at every age? The answer is: you have no idea. Most people don't. Hitting a kid in the adams apple would be a real attention getter, wouldn't it? So why don't we do that? Too many dead or permanently damaged kids? That would be the reason. So why risk it?

For a dog the canals along the top of the nose are very similar. And yes, they can be damaged fairly easily, some much more so than others. For this reason, you just don't do it unless you are willing to take the chance at severely injuring your pet. What if you took a swipe at your dogs snout and he leaned his head at the last second. Instead of swatting flat-handed, which is bad enough, you knife edged the animal. Yeah, it was an accident. Do you think the dog cares?

Hitting dogs is not training them. Hitting is violence, usually done in anger at what you see as misbehavior on the dogs part. Dogs do not understand anger or violence. It doesn't exist in their world the way it does in ours. Chances are the dog does not associate the behavior with the rebuke anyway, even if you discipline the dog while it is doing whatever it is you want to stop. There are so many better, safer, more productive ways to train a pet. The best rule I ever heard was also the most simple: if you wouldn't do it to your child, don't do it to your dog. If you wouldn't rub your child's nose in his own poop don't do it to your dog. They both have to learn where and when to poop. If you wouldn't smack your kid for having an accident, don't smack your dog either. Would you deny your child water so you don't have to change his diaper as often? Some a$$holes actually deny their dogs water so they don't have to walk them as often. They call this training too...

a reply to: Shoujikina

Its because we dont care about people. We have too many as it is already.

Add to that our total separation and balkanization, it will only get worse.

We USED to be better than the rest, but not any more. Europe is a step way ahead, even many parts of the ME and SA are passing us up. Lies, doubletalk and hypocrisy...its the American way

Liberalism is a cancer that got us from within. Should be fun to see where our nukes fly when we collapse though. Or who is lucky enough to control them to hold the world hostage.

The left was never going to lead the US. Whether by hook or crook, threat or actual violence, coup or democracy we dont care! Even if you won with a real majority instead of a razor thin margin, we wouldnt let you govern. We dont see you as legitimate or (mostly) people.

We will burn the country down, sell it out to its enemies or be internal threats. The option that can never come to pass is actually letting the left govern or exercise actual power vs theoretical power.

I sincerely hope 2024 is the last and final election. Ban every party that has supported slavery and sedition and it will leave only Is and Rs but no Ds.

a reply to: JBurns

I honestly think the only chance the US has to come out of all this with any semblance of sovereign rights is to take control of the both congress and the White House. Even then it will be an uphill battle but at least we will have a chance. Anything less than that and this country is pretty much screwed. Failure to take control of government means we are destined to become the new face of socialism, which is and has always been fascism masquerading as a legitimate form of government. You think the shortages are bad now? Just wait...

a reply to: Vroomfondel

It hasn't been good for a long time....

Not really sure what age you are but I'm in my 50's and when I was young politicians were still corrupt, rape/child molestation cases were almost never prosecuted, consenting adults had their private lives made illegal, the poor went to fight foreign wars while the rich were able to get exemptions, plenty of people were wrongly convicted because they couldn't afford a defense. I could go on and on.

Maybe it's a case where it's your turn for them to come for you. But I bet your personal life didn't change that much. The only thing that probably changed is you have less MSM sucking up to you. Maybe in the last 10-20 years they ramped up the plan to make everyone poor but they were still screwing you over.