Perhaps we do have a right to the Americas. An amateur historical speculation.

I don't see the differences. May I ask whom you are comparing them to? It is confusing what you think your book shows.

It is almost as if you learned this long ago, and the books you read and teachers you listened to never mentioned the possibility I suggested. You assume the anthropologists detect differences because you assume they vetted and rejected the idea I have, because they did not positively teach it to you.

Maybe they just never thought of it.

Besides, anthropologists probably took for granted they'd find a little North Africa in the New World even if they bought the conventional explanation of the European discovery and settlement of the New World. They would have just assumed not all the Abbasids and their Berber allies evacuated the Iberian peninsula and were recruited to go to the colonies where they could make little trouble and would be resistant to tropical diseases.

For that reason, they may simply not have mentioned it.

a reply to: Solvedit

Comparing Mediterranean people with Berber people on those I see differences in the general shape of the head, the shape of the jaw, the height/width proportion of the head and nose shape.

Anthropologist use several characteristics that can be confirmed or not, unlike other sciences related to human societies, they work with more specific data and less theory.

But it's true that I have never seen a study about the possibility you mention, it would be interesting to see if anyone tried to make a modern analysis (with or without DNA) of the different possibilities.

But we're not comparing them to Europeans.

a reply to: Solvedit

I thought the text below meant they were similar.

Maybe some of the people you thought were descendants of Conquistadors were actually from the Barbary Coast

On the possibility of pre-Columbian contact:

One site on the Mary Celeste claimed it was not all that unusual to find a ship drifting without its crew in the 19th century.

Presumably, sailing was even more dangerous in the Middle Ages.

Also, pirates or mutineers could have taken a ship they didn't know how to handle.

It is possible that due to the loss of the captain and navigator, every so often a ship lost the ability to sail back to port where it belonged.

Or a freak storm could have blown it off course.

If there were any crew remaining, they may not have been able to competently find their way but still could have made the ship sail and might have reached the Americas for it.

It probably happened very rarely, and when it did, it probably often resulted in them getting lost, running out of water, and dying, but maybe one out of every ten or one out of every hundred wound up in the Americas.

a reply to: Solvedit

I agree, it's possible, but I find it highly unlikely for a ship prepared for a short voyage to be able to support a crew on a longer, more erratic voyage.

During the Middle Ages, navigation was made along the coast, they usually only lost sight of the coast when they knew they would find it again if they keep sailing on that same direction, as they didn't have any means of knowing their position with enough accuracy.

Even the first voyages that resulted in the "discovery" of the African coast were mostly done with the coast in sight.

originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: Solvedit

I agree, it's possible, but I find it highly unlikely for a ship prepared for a short voyage to be able to support a crew on a longer, more erratic voyage.

Suppose the crew lost numbers from whatever wiped out the captain and navigator.

Besides, people have lived for months on rafts on only the fish they caught.

a reply to: Solvedit

The biggest problem is not food, it's drinking water.

Fascinating summary.

www.msn.com... fde50e30

I just noticed a famous painting of Cherokee chief Sequoyah looks just like famous investor Kevin O'Leary from the TV show Shark Tank. He is famously half Lebanese.

Sequoyah's father is thought to have been from Swabia in what is now SW Germany but not Lebanon.

It tends to support the idea that the Ottoman empire was somehow importing gold and goods from the New World in order to pay for their conquest of Europe.

Besides, there is a river in Florida which may be named after their farthest pilgrimage, Al-Aqsa Hadji. The Al-Aqsa Hadji river.

Wikipedia claimed Sequoyah was self-taught in several fields including blacksmithing and silversmithing and invented an alphabet for the Cherokee language.

originally posted by: Solvedit
Besides, there is a river in Florida which may be named after their farthest pilgrimage, Al-Aqsa Hadji. The Al-Aqsa Hadji river.

Where is it? I couldn't find any reference to that river.

a reply to: ArMaP

en.wikipedia.org...

I am hypothesizing without much basis that the Ottoman tactic was to protect their gold sources with secrecy. They put the bulk of their resources into the invasion of Europe.

At some point, they may have had to evacuate and the place names may have only lived on in the memory of the Native American tribes.

a reply to: Solvedit

OK, thanks.

What's the connection between "Loxahatchee" and "Al-Aqsa Hadji"?

a reply to: ArMaP
You've shown us many times that you have a massive stake in denying the possibilit of pre-Columbian Old World contact I am positing.

How about you tell us your angle?

a reply to: Solvedit

What about you answering my question?

Read your question out loud to yourself. a reply to: ArMaP

a reply to: Solvedit

I already did. As English is not my natural language I always re-read my posts before posting. This time I even read both names aloud to see if the was any similarity, and there isn't.

I have seen the face you outlined in the American South.

The Country Music star LeeAnn Rimes looks a lot like Moammar Qadaffi.

The obsolete U.S. Indian Head Nickel (5 cent coin) looks to me a lot more like the Lebanese actor Jamie Farr who played Cpl. Will Klinger on the TV show M.A.S.H. than anyone from Northeast Asia, where the Beringians are thought to have originated. The designers of the coin must have been documenting something.

The painting of Chief Sequoyah on his Wikipedia page looks quite Lebanese as well.

If Barbary Pirates were competing with Spain for South and Central America, or perhaps if they had been there first, there is a way they might look Spanish. It is possible they had purchased slaves from the Ottomans who in turn had taken them from the land of the Goths who invaded Iberia 1600 years ago. I have the same hairline as Mexican men. I vaguely resemble them. Is Spain really that dark? Could some of them be part Barbary Pirate, part Goth?

These points all suggest that various pirate groups might have made a massive move on the New World before its "official" discovery by Columbus.
Then, the Spanish, Portuguese, French, English, and Dutch navies cut them off and stranded them whereupon they had to join native tribes. Perhaps when the US "expelled the Cherokee" in 1846, the lighter ones decided to stay and resume speaking English and drop Cherokee. The overall point is when knowledge of the New World became widespread, it was only a question of who was going to take it from the natives.

originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: Solvedit

...I took these two photos from an old anthropology book (not as old as myself, the original version is from 1965, the Portuguese version is from 1967).

European racial subgroups

African racial subgroups, with the Berber type highlighted in yellow.

Although similar to Europeans, we can see that there are several differences. For some people, a Berber can look more European than a Spanish or Portuguese, with their Mediterranean type.