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Perhaps we do have a right to the Americas. An amateur historical speculation.

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posted on Apr, 10 2022 @ 07:59 AM
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originally posted by: ArMaPI'm not.
There are records of the first interactions between Europeans and the natives of the Americas, and in those there aren't any references (that I know) of them having previous knowledge of European words or objects. In the case of Christopher Columbus, that thought he had landed in Asia, that would have been an important clue, as Asia had previous contact with Europe.
There are records that fail to mention any loan words. That does not prove there were none. I doubt they did linguistic research because they were not a scientific mission.

Besides, if they were there to put a stop to the smuggling which was funding the invasion of Europe, they may have taken for granted that there would be a few signs of contact.

edit on 10-4-2022 by Solvedit because: added information



posted on Apr, 10 2022 @ 08:01 AM
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originally posted by: ArMaP

What kind of researchers, linguists?

Do you have a direct answer to this question?


See above.
Google it.
edit on 10-4-2022 by Solvedit because: clarity



posted on Apr, 10 2022 @ 10:21 AM
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originally posted by: Solvedit
There are records that fail to mention any loan words. That does not prove there were none.

True.


Besides, if they were there to put a stop to the smuggling which was funding the invasion of Europe, they may have taken for granted that there would be a few signs of contact.

The records specifically state they did not know the European weapons or clothes.



posted on Apr, 10 2022 @ 10:23 AM
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originally posted by: Solvedit
Google it.

You were the one saying that "some researchers think there are strong signs of Old World languages in the New", so I was expecting you would have an answer.

I am not going to waste my time looking for it.



posted on Apr, 10 2022 @ 10:43 AM
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originally posted by: ArMaPThe records specifically state they did not know the European weapons or clothes.
Maybe they would have known Berber or Ottoman weapons or clothes. Maybe the pirates or smugglers didn't dress like Europeans.



posted on Apr, 10 2022 @ 10:47 AM
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If the Ottoman empire had the money to stage an invasion of Europe then they had the money to send expeditions comparable to Columbus. If the gold they found was financing their invasion, then they surely kept it a secret in order to avoid having to devote some of their wealth to defending the ships going to and from the New World.



posted on Apr, 10 2022 @ 04:09 PM
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originally posted by: Solvedit
If the Ottoman empire had the money to stage an invasion of Europe then they had the money to send expeditions comparable to Columbus.

They would need money for both, which is not that easy.


If the gold they found was financing their invasion, then they surely kept it a secret in order to avoid having to devote some of their wealth to defending the ships going to and from the New World.

And how would the ships sail across the Atlantic, enter the Mediterranean and sail across the Mediterranean without anyone noticing them?



posted on Apr, 10 2022 @ 06:03 PM
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originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Solvedit
If the Ottoman empire had the money to stage an invasion of Europe then they had the money to send expeditions comparable to Columbus.

They would need money for both, which is not that easy.
The potential payoff might be worth it.


If the gold they found was financing their invasion, then they surely kept it a secret in order to avoid having to devote some of their wealth to defending the ships going to and from the New World.

And how would the ships sail across the Atlantic, enter the Mediterranean and sail across the Mediterranean without anyone noticing them?
I'll tell you if you tell me the formula for Coke.



posted on Apr, 12 2022 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: Solvedit
I'll tell you if you tell me the formula for Coke.

That doesn't make any sense.

edit on 12/4/2022 by ArMaP because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2022 @ 08:58 PM
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edit on 20-4-2022 by Solvedit because: Deleted post



posted on Aug, 16 2022 @ 09:27 PM
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originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Solvedit

originally posted by: ArMaPPhoenicians were a white people, like the other Semitic peoples. People from South America are clearly not Semitic.

Clearly, by what standard?

Anthropologists' standards.
As you didn't answer my question and by your comment above I suppose you never lived in the Iberian Peninsula, specially during the Summer, when most people go to the beach and become darker than Barack Obama, while remaining "white".
So why do you think that proves Central Americans could not be Phoenecian? It is sunnier there than your Iberian Peninsula. The Straits of Gibraltar are on approximately the same latitude line as San Jose, California, Oklahoma City, or Norfolk, Virginia. So I think it is sunnier in Central America.

So what does your point prove?



posted on Aug, 17 2022 @ 05:57 AM
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a reply to: Solvedit

That skin colour is not the best way of identifying humans, as it can have big changes in the same individual.

Anthropologists use other characteristics, like head shape, relative proportions of several body parts, etc.



posted on Aug, 18 2022 @ 06:15 AM
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originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: Solvedit

That skin colour is not the best way of identifying humans, as it can have big changes in the same individual.

Anthropologists use other characteristics, like head shape, relative proportions of several body parts, etc.
Well, you are the one who said they were white.

You have not said so, but sometimes it seems you are thinking of the natives of Amazonia. The rest of Latin America is not just like them. Maybe some of the people you thought were descendants of Conquistadors were actually from the Barbary Coast and their ancestors did not take the intermediate step of invading Spain with the Abbasids, then becoming Spanish after the Reconquista, then being shipped off to the New World perhaps due to some supposed resistance to tropical diseases because of their African heritage.

But even the pictures I have seen of Amazon natives don't look particularly Mongolian, like descendants of the Bering Land Bridge probably would.



posted on Aug, 18 2022 @ 06:58 AM
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originally posted by: Solvedit
Well, you are the one who said they were white.

White from a "racial" point of view, meaning with all the characteristics of what we call white (or Caucasian) people.


You have not said so, but sometimes it seems you are thinking of the natives of Amazonia.

I'm not.


Maybe some of the people you thought were descendants of Conquistadors were actually from the Barbary Coast and their ancestors did not take the intermediate step of invading Spain with the Abbasids, then becoming Spanish after the Reconquista, then being shipped off to the New World perhaps due to some supposed resistance to tropical diseases because of their African heritage.

They would have different characteristics.


But even the pictures I have seen of Amazon natives don't look particularly Mongolian, like descendants of the Bering Land Bridge probably would.

People adapt to their habitat, we can see that happened in just a couple of centuries with the people that moved to the US and Australia from Europe.



posted on Aug, 18 2022 @ 04:43 PM
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originally posted by: ArMaPThey would have different characteristics.
Why?


People adapt to their habitat, we can see that happened in just a couple of centuries with the people that moved to the US and Australia from Europe.
What happened? They no longer look European?



posted on Aug, 18 2022 @ 07:01 PM
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originally posted by: Solvedit
Why?

Because people from the Barbary Coast are not the same as people from Spain, there are differences.


What happened? They no longer look European?

They still look European, but the different environment and the mixes created variations that anthropologists can detect.

PS: I'm not an anthropologist.



posted on Aug, 18 2022 @ 07:16 PM
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originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Solvedit
Why?

Because people from the Barbary Coast are not the same as people from Spain, there are differences.
Sure, but what if they were also part European?




What happened? They no longer look European?

They still look European, but the different environment and the mixes created variations that anthropologists can detect.

PS: I'm not an anthropologist.
That means you suppose there are detectable differences, but how do you know the populations I reference were tested for these differences and had them ruled out, if you are not an anthropologist or a geneticist?
edit on 18-8-2022 by Solvedit because: fixed html tag



posted on Aug, 18 2022 @ 07:20 PM
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originally posted by: Solvedit
Sure, but what if they were also part European?

The differences would be smaller, naturally.


That means you suppose there are detectable differences, but how do you know the populations I reference were tested for these differences and had them ruled out, if you are not an anthropologist or a geneticist?

Could you clarify what populations you referenced?



posted on Aug, 18 2022 @ 08:11 PM
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The people everyone thinks are part Spanish part Native American. The people we've been talking about all this time.
edit on 18-8-2022 by Solvedit because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2022 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: Solvedit

Sorry for having asked, after 4 months I completely forgot about this thread. I had to read back some pages to be sure.

Today it's relatively easy to know, they just have to do a DNA test, but before that it was more difficult.
Anthropologists use things like nose length compared to head height, leg length compared to full height, head proportions (in all the three axes), jaw proportions, space between the eyes, etc.

For example, I took these two photos from an old anthropology book (not as old as myself, the original version is from 1965, the Portuguese version is from 1967).

European racial subgroups


African racial subgroups, with the Berber type highlighted in yellow.


Although similar to Europeans, we can see that there are several differences. For some people, a Berber can look more European than a Spanish or Portuguese, with their Mediterranean type.




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