Inside A White Supremacist Militia in Ukraine

a reply to: Justoneman

Both sides are guilty

No. The old trick of equating victims to aggresors won't work. Humans have ways to clearly discern what's good and what's evil. Who is a good-doer and who is a wrong-doer. Otherwise coexistence would be impossible. In this case we know who is on the evil side, we know where he lives, and we are awaiting him to be captured, judged, found guilty, and sentenced. The Hague Trial Court is waiting for him.

a reply to: Justoneman

Yes I agree. This is a good place to stand. Both sides are guilty. Both sides will suffer. It does need to end, and I am guessing Putin will not withdraw too far back if at all.

Thank you -- yes!

What we need are Statesmen... not politicians.

We need good people to stand up with viable compromises and negotiating points -- at least for a start, to bring about a ceasefire. I'm loathe to offer any comprehensive plan or offer, but I would think it would be simple enough and fair enough to start with Putin's talking points --

1 -- Guarantee no (further) aggression from Ukranian neo-Nazi factions -- not matter how many or how much. (This should be especially easy if it ain't happening, right?)

2 -- Take the possibility of both NATO and EU membership off the table -- at least temporarily.

3 -- Recommit to the original promise of NATO "not one mile further east."

Address the stated immediate concerns to foster a ceasefire and the beginnings of further negotiations. And stop the saver-rattling and propaganda!

a reply to: Direne

No. The old trick of equating victims to aggresors won't work. Humans have ways to clearly discern what's good and what's evil. Who is a good-doer and who is a wrong-doer. Otherwise coexistence would be impossible. In this case we know who is on the evil side, we know where he lives, and we are awaiting him to be captured, judged, found guilty, and sentenced. The Hague Trial Court is waiting for him.

LOL!!! Says the person who can only see "evil" and aggression on one side...

Everyone's hands are dirty. Everyone needs to do better.

a reply to: Boadicea

Your comment still doesn't change the fact that Russia is using Ukraine Nazis as propaganda to try to sway public opinion when it comes to their invasion and doesn't really change what's happening. People are going to fight back when you invade their homeland Nazi or not. When it comes to shutting down discussion I believe you should be more upset with Russia and their supporters on that issue since they have a very well documented history of shutting down speech they disagree with.

a reply to: Boadicea


Of course there are fetish nazis in Ukraine.

NOBODY has ever said different.

Also - NOBODY on the planet thinks that a handful of Ukrainian nazis is justification for a russian invasion in ANY way.

Except Russia.

Note: we probably have more of those nazis than Ukraine does, though most of ours are in prison.



Stopped reading RIGHT there.

Just no need.

originally posted by: nancyliedersdeaddog
a reply to: Boadicea

Your comment still doesn't change the fact that Russia is using Ukraine Nazi's as propaganda to try to sway public opinion when it comes to their invasion and doesn't really change what's happening.

Of course my comment doesn't change anything! Yes, Russia is exploiting the neo-Nazis in Ukraine, and Putin can absolutely maximize it, because there is truth at the root of it all.

People are going to fight back when you invade their homeland Nazi or not.

And water is wet.

When it comes to shutting down discussion I believe you should be more upset with Russia and their supporters on that issue since they have a very well documented history of shutting down speech they disagree with.

I have plenty of outrage to go around. No need for me to be stingy with it.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: Boadicea


Of course there are fetish nazis in Ukraine.

NOBODY has ever said different.

Yes, actually, it has been said. We were told it was Russian propaganda and that we're Putin lovers. And then the undeniable reports from near and far, old and new, were posted. And we're still told... ad nauseum... that it's just Russian propaganda and that we're Putin lovers. And it's still not working.

Also - NOBODY on the planet thinks that a handful of Ukrainian nazis is justification for a russian invasion in ANY way.

And no one has said otherwise. Not one person. Putin has cited it as one of his reasons. But no one here has said it was reason to invade Ukraine. I don't think anyone here has expressed approval at all. I haven't seen it at least. There's been plenty of talk of who all is responsible for what all, but no one has excused Putin.

Except Russia.

Yup -- but it's not the only reason Putin's given.

Note: we probably have more of those nazis than Ukraine does, though most of ours are in prison.

Yup -- And better in prison than in the army.

originally posted by: Direne
a reply to: Justoneman

Both sides are guilty

No. The old trick of equating victims to aggresors won't work. Humans have ways to clearly discern what's good and what's evil. Who is a good-doer and who is a wrong-doer. Otherwise coexistence would be impossible. In this case we know who is on the evil side, we know where he lives, and we are awaiting him to be captured, judged, found guilty, and sentenced. The Hague Trial Court is waiting for him.

NO, i suspect putin leaves office with prejudice soon.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Direne
a reply to: Justoneman

Both sides are guilty

No. The old trick of equating victims to aggresors won't work. Humans have ways to clearly discern what's good and what's evil. Who is a good-doer and who is a wrong-doer. Otherwise coexistence would be impossible. In this case we know who is on the evil side, we know where he lives, and we are awaiting him to be captured, judged, found guilty, and sentenced. The Hague Trial Court is waiting for him.

NO, i suspect putin leaves office with prejudice soon.

Extreme Prejudice.

He just destroyed his own country

a reply to: Boadicea


Yeah, he also stated those secret U.S. bio weapon labs that all the nazis were gonna attack russia with as the primary justifications for invading Ukraine.

So you can't defend your country from invasion in your opinion if you espouse far right politics?

a reply to: EvanB


Even worse.

Just having a few folks expressing far right opinions is justification for russia to invade, destroy, and then steal your country.

While threatening global nuclear annihilation.




Crazy world, this.

How did nobody see this coming?

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: MapMistress

Not even gonna read any of that nonsense.

Cuz while it might be interesting, none of it has anything at all to do with what russia just did.

Actually it has EVERYTHING to do with why Putin invaded. If you don't know basic historical facts about the Ukraine, Jews, Russians and Nazis, then you really shouldn't be talking about the country.

Zelensky is Jewish. Putin claims he is invading the Ukraine "because it is run by Nazis" yet Zelensky is Jewish. You don't accuse a Jewish leader of being a Nazi or a Jewish leader of having a Nazi country.

And if you had bothered to read SIMPLE UKRAINIAN HISTORICAL FACTS then you would understand what's really going on.

Stop farting in the wind barking about a country that you know nothing about and take the time to do a little historical research.

In antiquity, Greek historians mention red headed Levantine Jews living in Crimea and the coast of Ukraine along the Dneiper. During the Roman Empire, historians mention that there were "Jews with Red Hair" living in Crimea and along the Dneiper.

The Ashkenazi spread inland along the Dneiper River. Some crossed over to Poland and Germany. Others moved into Russia.

After Russia's annexation of the Ukraine in the 1700s, Russia began deporting all their Jews back to the Ukraine from which they came. Mind you, the Russians viewed Ukraine as Jewish land since all Russian Jews were deported there.

Historically it's called The Pale of Settlement.

Russian Jews Deported to Ukraine: Pale of Settlement

All kinds of restrictions were put on the Jews BY RUSSIANS who deported them 1791 to WWII, a deportation back to the lands they came from (Ashkenaz) in the Ukraine. So prior to WWI and prior to WWII, Russia was very anti-Semitic for 300 years.

The Nazis got their ideas of what to do to the Jews FROM THE RUSSIANS. The Pale of Settlement drawn up by the Russians was the Nazi charter in WWII.

a reply to: MapMistress


It has nothing to do with JUSTIFYING that invasion.

There IS no justification.

Nobody cares what putin's 'reasons' were.

They were absurd.

And imaginary.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: EvanB

Even worse.

Just having a few folks expressing far right opinions is justification for russia to invade, destroy, and then steal your country.

While threatening global nuclear annihilation.

Oh my... what a piece of work you are. The same brand spanking new poster who first threatened me for daring to state the facts because you don't like them... now outright lying about what others are saying because you don't like it...

No one -- NO ONE -- has in any way justified Putin's actions. NO ONE in ANY WAY.

We're just not turning a blind eye to the actions of everyone else involved. You obviously think their presence is a pretty big thing, because YOU are the one who is so freaked out about it that you don't even want to admit it yourself, and don't want anyone else to either, and will talk bogus trash about those other posters. (Which, by the way, is not only not cool, it's against the T&Cs. Did you bother to read them?)

Good to know. It's always good to know when another poster is a lying liar that will threaten other posters to defend and protect neo-Nazis. (I told you it was duly noted and would not be forgotten...)

a reply to: Boadicea


PUTIN is using those exact words as 'justification' for invading Ukraine.



Point to a single lie.

I'll wait.

I always wait for ragey folks, just can't wait to see what they say next.

Usually pretty amusing.



Invading a country cuz they have racists?

Not so amusing.

EVERY country has some.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Lies... lies... and more lies... by YOU.

I never said it. No one here has said it. The only person saying it is YOU putting words in others mouths. You won't even address the truth. Just creating strawman arguments to prop up your pathetic crap.

Why are you so worried about the truth? Why are you so worried about the truth that you're here lying about it, lying about other posters, and making threats?

We're denying ignorance. Why aren't you?

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Lies... lies... and more lies... by YOU.

I never said it. No one here has said it. The only person saying it is YOU putting words in others mouths. You won't even address the truth. Just creating strawman arguments to prop up your pathetic crap.

Why are you so worried about the truth? Why are you so worried about the truth that you're here lying about it, lying about other posters, and making threats?

We're denying ignorance. Why aren't you?

Stopped reading after the "Lies".

I already slapped you (gently) with my best challenge glove and you still haven't provided a SINGLE example.

Still waiting.



Then we can get back to your russian invasion justification nonsense.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: nancyliedersdeaddog
"Do Russian propagandist really think bringing up a group of Nazis is going to change public opinion when it comes to Russia's invasion of Ukraine?"
Yes.
Putin 100% believed that it would, and was working.
Not too clever, this putin fellow eh?
He's STILL using it in every speech as 'justification' for invading Ukraine.

Let me put some things in perspective.

The most active Neonazi scene in Eastern Europe is in ... surprise, surprise ... in RUSSIA! The scene is considered to consist of about 150 groups with 10,000+ members. They mainly act aganst non-russians, and especially against gay, homeless and Antifa. Their operation areas are Causcasus and Central Asia.

In this regard, the argument about de-nazifying is a weak one - and Putin knows that very well. Yes, there is an (one) army group in Ukraine that like to pose on pictures with supremacy/nazi flags and all that, but that's about it for Nazis in Ukraine.

BTW, there are Neonazis from Germany, who went and joined the war in the recent days - but they are joining the Russian side, not the Ukrainian, which might tell something. :-)

Then, in Europe, people have mostly a clear idea of how big the Nazi risk is, because they do (or, in 99% of the cases, do NOT) see them on the streets or hear about them (usually NOT) in talks with their friends and colleagues. There, is, however, a very different view in the published opinion in newspapers - newspapers see them on every corner and like to report about them (whenever they managed to find one, which is not too easy).

Anyway, nobody who not just rely on newspapers, will see a real threat. There are some "wanna-be-Nazis" here and here, some more in this region and country, some more in that, but mostly they are just crackpots, some washed-away ones and mainly young people, who follow this year this and next year another stream as part of their process of growing up. They simply do not play any prominent rule anywhere.

However, the media likes, in recent years, to brand everyone who is not mainstream (which is currently middle to left), to be "right", and with some people, this lead to mix up right groups and nazis, and "Nazi" has often become a synonym for "right" (even though historically, they were left...). So even Trump has become a "Nazi" in some media. :-)

De-nazyfiying a country is nothing that anyone would really believe, not even the Russians, because many of them live or work in west european countries and travel between Russia and Western Europe is a normal occurence. And Russians are, by experience, used to being lied to and state media being doctored.

No, this is not the main argument, it is an argument for the media only - and I am sure, Putin knows that very well. :-)

Here is an interesting dossier about Russia in this regard (german language, use Translator), although issued by a german state institution: www.bpb.de...

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

LOL! I don't take my marching orders from the likes of you!!!

I've provided all the links I intend to provide. Don't like 'em? Tough.

You want to prove me wrong, give it your best shot. But we both know you can't, or you would have already. Instead you resort to lies and threats.

And now, I'm done with you.