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Why are atheist so angry with God?

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posted on Apr, 2 2022 @ 07:29 AM
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originally posted by: Joecroft


If that’s what you believe, then why would you be bringing up “Pascals Wager” in this post…it makes zero sense…


Remember when I said I simplified Pascal's Wager to atheism and theism? It's either people looking for God or not. Someone brought up in a Muslim country can find the Most High God if they are looking for Him (Muslims even believe Jesus is Al Masih [Messiah]). There's honestly just too much to go over if you're just playing devil's advocate and solely want to catch me in my word rather than have a conversation.

The first person that Jesus openly admitted He was the Messiah was to a Samaritan woman... essentially a new ager. Jesus hates man-made labels, and sees right to the heart.



You do realize that by believing in re-incarnation and what you’ve stated above… that most Christians wont even classify you as a Christian…they might even view you as the Atheist! lol

- JC


Jesus specifically says John the Baptist is Elijah's reincarnated soul. Like I said earlier, it is the exception, and not the norm. This is Biblical, not me making it up. Maybe most don't read their Bibles as extensively as I do, I have dedicated my life to it.


originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: GoShredAK

There are holes. I will poke them.

I will play with them like the scabs they are.

Conclusions made from diving deeper depend on the person.

Been there, tried that. You know what I got? Silence.



When did you ever silence anyone? Nowhere in the Bible does it say that humans don't have free will.

“Father, if you are willing, take this cup away from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours be done.”

We see here that doing God's will is the ultimate benefactor for our own souls and humankind. But we do have a choice in the matter. Mostly all people would not have been willing to go through what Jesus did. Jesus was so zealous He was willing to do anything for God.
edit on 2-4-2022 by cooperton because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2022 @ 07:46 AM
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originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: cooperton
I did that on purpose to show that unless something is highlighted you gloss over it. What could have Jesus said to Thomas, which by the way is said to be his twin brother, didn't see that in the bible, that would cause the others to try to stone him?


"For whoever does the will of my father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” Matthew 12:50

See where I am going with this? From Thomas the Contender:

"Now, since it has been said that you are my twin and true companion, examine yourself, and learn who you are, in what way you exist, and how you will come to be. Since you will be called my brother, it is not fitting that you be ignorant of yourself. And I know that you have understood, because you had already understood that I am the knowledge of the truth."

He will be called His brother because Thomas will eventually enter the brotherhood of the Light in Christ's Kingdom (also see John 12:36). Not to mention 'Thomas' means "twin". So look, I know you've just started reading these and went superficially trying to catch me in my word, but this would be much more beneficial to both of us if you just had a normal conversation. Are you always knife-to-throat with everyone you converse with, trying to prove them wrong?




ETA: Oh yeah, and the thing missing from the requirements to get into the kingdom of heaven is accepting Jesus as your savior, while the NT says over and over it is the only way.



No that's not true. He specifically says this is not the case:

“Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of Heaven”

He says multiple things that are a must for entering the kingdom of Heaven:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

“Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."


The verse you are likely referring to is when He says "no one comes to the Father except through Me". Which is true. Abraham saw God through Jesus (John 8:56). Why wouldn't someone else in the wilderness in modern day with no books or TV be able to come to know God in the same way? Jesus is the metaphysical gate into the next stages of conscious development.
edit on 2-4-2022 by cooperton because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-4-2022 by cooperton because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2022 @ 01:04 PM
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originally posted by: cooperton
See where I am going with this?

Yeah, you are making the same type of excuses christians always make: but over here it says something similar, even if not really the same.


No that's not true. He specifically says this is not the case:

Are saying that you don't have to accept jesus as your savior to enter heaven?


Jesus is the metaphysical gate into the next stages of conscious development.

That sounds like something other than christianity.
edit on 2-4-2022 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2022 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: cooperton
When did you ever silence anyone?

Maybe re-read that.



posted on Apr, 2 2022 @ 01:20 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik

"Jesus is the metaphysical gate into the next stages of conscious development."

That sounds like something other than christianity.


No its out of the Bible:

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture."



posted on Apr, 2 2022 @ 01:24 PM
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Shall not worship any other God - I've always wondered if that statement admited that there are indeed more Gods and then why the generic name God is that to hide it's true Identity if there are in fact God or Gods .



posted on Apr, 2 2022 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: cooperton
No its out of the Bible:

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture."

Not seeing the "next stages of conscious development" that you added to that in your previous post.



edit on 2-4-2022 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2022 @ 01:45 PM
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Can't be angry with something/someone you don't believe in. Silly thread.



posted on Apr, 2 2022 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: cooperton



Originally posted by Joecroft
If that’s what you believe, then why would you be bringing up “Pascals Wager” in this post…it makes zero sense…




Originally posted by cooperton
Remember when I said I simplified Pascal's Wager to atheism and theism? It's either people looking for God or not.


Yes I remember what you said…but it still doesn’t make any sense because “Pascals Wager” is a persuasive argument to specifically avoid punishment in Hell; the Hell that’s talked about in Christianity…

So how is that in any way about finding God…as ”Pascals Wager” is only about finding the Christian God of the Bible through threats and fear…



Originally posted by cooperton
Nah I think it should be normal among Christians to consider that people's souls can peacefully transcend into the impending extra-dimensional existence without ever having read the Bible.




Originally posted by cooperton
Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" knows Christ. Instead, it is the pure of heart that will see God. That includes people in the far reaches of the African wilderness who have never read a Bible.


In your 2 posts above…you mentioned something that Christians don’t believe in…i.e. Souls peacefully transcending without ever have read the Bible…And people in far off lands finding God without ever having read the Bible…

“Pascals Wager” is about people taking the chance that the Bible is true…which means people have to at least have read it!…



Originally posted by Joecroft
You do realize that by believing in re-incarnation and what you’ve stated above… that most Christians wont even classify you as a Christian…they might even view you as the Atheist! lol




Originally posted by cooperton
Jesus specifically says John the Baptist is Elijah's reincarnated soul. Like I said earlier, it is the exception, and not the norm. This is Biblical, not me making it up. Maybe most don't read their Bibles as extensively as I do, I have dedicated my life to it.


If it’s the exception (and taking into account your other believes above) then how do people get saved…? When you believe people don’t even need to read the Bible…?

I think you need to explain what denomination of Christianity you belong too…especially considering the topic of this thread…because for most of this thread you’ve been taking the theistic Christian position. While secretly holding a completely unique “Christian” view…which I’m pretty sure most Christians on this thread, wouldn’t even classify as Christian…

- JC



posted on Apr, 2 2022 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik

Not seeing the "next stages of conscious development" that you added to that in your previous post.




Heaven is the place our consciousness goes to next after here on earth.



posted on Apr, 2 2022 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: cooperton
Heaven is the place our consciousness goes to next after here on earth.

I see you dodged the question about having to accept jesus as your savior in order to do that, as well as what Jesus could have told Thomas that would have made the others want to stone him. Simple logic says it must have been something heretical.

It is these little things that you gloss over.

Getting back to:

(22) Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, "These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom."
They said to him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom."


First bolded part, you responded with “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." but here they ask if they must be like children to enter heaven. He doesn't say yes, contradicting what you posted, but instead gives a bunch of other things that also don't include accepting him as their savior.

What do you make of the second bolded part?

To me it sounds like he is talking about the astral body or the double, as it is called in Castaneda's books. I'm sure your mileage will vary.


edit on 2-4-2022 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2022 @ 03:26 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik

I see you dodged the..


Lol I gotta just dodge this whole conversation... total waste of time.


originally posted by: Joecroft

Yes I remember what you said…but it still doesn’t make any sense because “Pascals Wager” is a persuasive argument to specifically avoid punishment in Hell; the Hell that’s talked about in Christianity…


Like I said before, the difference is that the theist begins to develop an awareness of God, whereas the atheist is ignorant.




So how is that in any way about finding God…as ”Pascals Wager” is only about finding the Christian God of the Bible through threats and fear…


You and daskakik are the same. Painful in conversation... you guys don't always have to try to scrutinize and nitpick every detail of the person you're talking to. Do you speak this way to people in real life haha?

I'm out. No more wasting my time speaking to a defense lawyer.
edit on 2-4-2022 by cooperton because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2022 @ 03:35 PM
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originally posted by: cooperton
Lol I gotta just dodge this whole conversation... total waste of time.

Of course because you have nothing to counter with.

Those holes are there and you can't explain them away without mental gymnastics that some of us are not willing to perform.

ETA:

...you guys don't always have to try to scrutinize and nitpick every detail...

That is exactly what has to be done when someone claims a piece of text is perfect and beyond reproach.

It isn't about you, per se, but about what you seem to be doing to convince yourself when the text itself is right there and doesn't support what you are saying.
edit on 2-4-2022 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2022 @ 04:39 PM
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a reply to: cooperton



Originally posted by Joecroft
So how is that in any way about finding God…as ”Pascals Wager” is only about finding the Christian God of the Bible through threats and fear…




Originally posted by cooperton
You and daskakik are the same. Painful in conversation...


Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary evidence lol



Originally posted by cooperton
you guys don't always have to try to scrutinize and nitpick every detail of the person you're talking to. Do you speak this way to people in real life haha?


It was that “you guys” comment that dragged me back into this thread in the first place…

Plus, it’s not really a “nitpick” when the 2 things don’t go hand in hand…



Originally posted by Joecroft
Yes I remember what you said…but it still doesn’t make any sense because “Pascals Wager” is a persuasive argument to specifically avoid punishment in Hell; the Hell that’s talked about in Christianity…




Originally posted by cooperton
Like I said before, the difference is that the theist begins to develop an awareness of God, whereas the atheist is ignorant.


But the “theist” (and we’d have to take into account what theistic religion they even belonged too) would only begin to develop an awareness of God based on the Christian understanding (when using Pascal Wager) but your beliefs that you’ve mentioned so far, aren’t the typical Christian ones…

Btw – I’m not attacking your beliefs here…I’m just finding it strange for you to be bringing up “Pascals Wager”…considering your beliefs etc…

I think anyone on this thread could have rightly questioned why you brought up “Pascals Wager” …considering your beliefs that have recently come to light…


- JC



edit on 2-4-2022 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2022 @ 07:05 PM
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a reply to: GoShredAK

I'm not reading your post. (past the first portion)

You clearly didn't read any of mine. (or something)

I'm sorry, I really am not trying to be rude.

But it is, what it is. So, cheers. Sincerely.

Peace.



edit on 4-3-2022 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2022 @ 07:12 PM
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a reply to: cooperton

I meant that when I was questioning my faith, and prayed my heart out, I got silence. I got absolutely nothing. When I genuinely needed something, I got nothing. I wasn't asking for a miracle or demanding proof, or whatever. I just needed anything... And got nothing.

I threw out all my "evil" music, stopped vices, went totally pathetically straight lace in every way. Even prayed to be forgiven for my fathers sins, and my grandfathers sins. Sat and prayed for hours at a time. All pathetic like.

Nothing.

I'm an atheist now. And believe it or not, I do think there is "something more" out there. But it sure as # isn't Jesus, or any of the others from other religions.

edit on 4-3-2022 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2022 @ 11:05 PM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: cooperton



Originally posted by cooperton
I think it is more than just Jews/Christians that have historically, and currently, worship the Most High God. Christ so happens to be the firstborn of that Apex God.


That’s a pretty unique Christian view…as most Christians don’t accept that Muslim’s or even Jews are following the God of Christianity…not sure what other belief systems you have in mind… Zoroastrianism perhaps…



Originally posted by cooperton
I think reincarnation is the exception rather than the norm. So many self-righteous spiritualists suppose they're the reincarnation of some iconic figure, but it is probably their soul's first go. Consider how small the population in the past was... even if reincarnation is the norm, there wouldn't be enough historic Souls to accommodate the number of living humans at the current time.


Well yes, if you just limit Souls to reincarnation, then the numbers won’t add up…but there is incarnation…where Souls could come from many other worlds and spiritual planes etc…in that case the numbers could potentially be infinite…



Originally posted by cooperton
Yeah I would bet that the only Souls that can reincarnate are the ones that ascended into heaven.


But then they too could run the risk themselves of going to Hell…

Preexisting Souls would either just stay where they are or go to another world or plane of experience…I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t even try to run the risk of coming here and being potentially condemned to hell...

Considering your unique “Christian” beliefs…it doesn’t make much sense for you to be bringing up “Pascals Wager”, as all preexisting Souls who come from Heaven would just stay put, or incarnate somewhere else…they certainly wouldn’t risk venturing down here to Earth…

Although having said the above, a lot depends on how you are viewing Hell… but even if your view of Hell is different from the Traditional one…then again it doesn’t make much sense for you to be bringing up “Pascals Wager”…which is an argument about avoiding eternal punishment in Hell…

- JC


If we were aware of the outcome and the purpose for reincarnating back on earth before we made the decision then it would make sense to risk condemnation again as you say.....

You know it's going to suck and be painful and miserable and scary but you know you're going back to your Abba Father....even though you won't know that once back on earth.

I believe the things souls can do are infinite because my God is just that awesome.



posted on Apr, 7 2022 @ 11:12 PM
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originally posted by: GoShredAK
If we were aware of the outcome and the purpose for reincarnating back on earth before we made the decision then it would make sense to risk condemnation again as you say.....

Are you willing to consider that the outcome might be that there really is no risk of condemnation?

Which just happens to contradict the bible.

Can you give an example of a purpose that would make risking condemnation worth it?



posted on Apr, 7 2022 @ 11:37 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: GoShredAK
He says my people perish from a lack of knowledge......makes a lot of sense......

Does it?

The bible says Adam and Eve sought that knowledge and it was their damnation.

You contradicted yourself while trying to argue the opposite.

You are not coming from a position of knowledge but from one of blindly believing what you have been led to believe. Even the agnostics are one up on you because they admit they don't know the intent of god, while you take to heart what some men have said his intent is.


Also we gotta remember....God's ways are not our ways........

Why not?

You just said in your last post "that knowledge is built into our DNA" so why wouldn't our ways be similar to your god's, if that is even remotely true?





It does say that....

It means knowledge and wisdom pertaining to the free gift of Grace promised in the new covenant.....

The more you study the word and in prayer, seeking God the more secure you are in your faith, thus less likely to perish.

Adam and Even and what happened in the garden is Old Testament stuff that took place even before the law was given....

It was knowledge of the law that brought sin and death into this world....

It says in the book of Isaiah, God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts not our thoughts......He is Holy and speaking of heavenly things that we do not have the capacity to understand..

Everything I said earlier was based in scripture. I'm coming from a position of over 2 decades of faith and reading and listening...

I don't know a whole lot about atheism, what is your belief? Do we just turn back into dirt and it's basically lights out at that point?
edit on 7-4-2022 by GoShredAK because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2022 @ 11:50 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: GoShredAK
If we were aware of the outcome and the purpose for reincarnating back on earth before we made the decision then it would make sense to risk condemnation again as you say.....

Are you willing to consider that the outcome might be that there really is no risk of condemnation?

Which just happens to contradict the bible.

Can you give an example of a purpose that would make risking condemnation worth it?


To save somebody special to you?

To do something great...

To fulfill a mission.....

I'm not sure? I don't know any of the details or logistics in heaven or how the unseen things work.
edit on 8-4-2022 by GoShredAK because: (no reason given)



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