Phase conjugation and its applications on finding stealth aircraft

here is a video of how this effect works, very odd indeed.


if we could get phase conjugated RADAR/LIDAR systems going no matter how the beams were scattered the system would be able to build a 3d representation of the target.

phase conjugation allows a scattered beam of EM energy from lasers to radar to instead of being reflected away and scatted into noise to be able to reconstitute the noise into a useable signal

i am obviously skipping over huge physics and optical mathematics but from that video and the references provided can send you down a mathmatical rabbit hole that i honestly JUST comprehend.

i wonder if this effect would work from the other way around from a aircraft using IR lasers or whatever beam source to track stealth aircraft and build holographic images of stuff on the ground.

a real hologram can but cut into a million slices and each slice will still show the entire image no matter how small you cut it up.

i think these esoteric effects are in use and seeing as a lot of people don't understand optics don't even ask about such things.


still at the very least i thought i would share a very cool and very unheard of effect with ATS

a reply to: noscopebacon

Um... Who exactly would let you put that mirror on their stealth aircraft? Kind of defeats the purpose of all the stealth technology to put a beacon on it. Might as well turn on the transponder while you are at it.

I don't think this is for the application you are thinking of. The video shows an interference within a contained device and not a beam absorbed and reflected away from the source at a distance.

I don't pretend to know all of how it works but I could make that same video using the technology of a hundred years or more ago..It was used for making a woman turn into a gorilla and back. It is called smoke and mirrors.

I am not saying this video is fake, I am saying I am less than convened it is not.

This is a similar set up from a different prospective.

a reply to: beyondknowledge

the point is you don't need a mirror,

they are just using that as a beam splitter

when they put the frosted glass over the mirror the image still appears even if the mirror is obscured

everything is reflective otherwise it would be invisible.

if you were going to use it FROM an aircraft you could scan the area sky and ground and build a 3d map of it, and because of the properties of phase conjugation even stealth aircraft would show up because even if it scattered the beam it would will come into focus like the face in the video.

you might need a ground station as the reference beam but maybe another aircraft could provide that.

its almost like revere holography

a reply to: noscopebacon

I don't see that. The video is trying to demonstrate that an interfeared with beam reflects back through the interference to produce the same image without the interference. Can you explain why they are using a reflector that you say is not needed for the atlffect when the whole video is a demonstration of the reflector?

Also how are you going to collect the dispersed reflection that is going in directions away from the radar station? Think of shing a flashlight at a darkly painted disco ball, many miles away, and looking through a straw to see if you hit it but you don't even know what direction to look in. That is what stealth is about, absorption and redirection of energy away from the source.

a reply to: noscopebacon

Correct.
They do it already.
Zeldovich's stimulated raman scattering is a fascinating story.

Wonder what happens if you expand beyond none optical wave fields?

a reply to: beyondknowledge

the other beam is absorbed by the frosted glass but still some how re constitutes a visible image of the mans face again.

it has to do with the quantum effects of the laser interacting with the crystal shown.


notice how the face takes a second to show back up, a laser is on or off, and there were no moving parts like a iris so why did it fade in when the other beam is blocked? it should reflect nothing as the image is scattered by the frosted glass.

its kind of hard to wrap your head around.


eta: math is the only real way to describe what is going on in that simple but impressive demo

originally posted by: Jukiodone
a reply to: noscopebacon

Correct.
They do it already.
Zeldovich's stimulated raman scattering is a fascinating story.

Wonder what happens if you expand beyond none optical wave fields?

Can you elaborate more on the technical detail? as much physics as possible

a reply to: mbkennel

what exactly are you looking for as far as math?

you can get all the maths from wiki or google search patents about it and you will have math problems for days.

a reply to: mbkennel

I only heard the "rumour" version which will almost certainly not meet your criteria.

A cursory search provides a paper from IEEE which was presented at the European radar conference in 2005.
ieeexplore.ieee.org...
There's also this from the same period which talks about a synthetic aperture radar with a Phase Conjugate "mirror" behind it which "automatically decorrelates other targets".
Note the interesting citation.

If you're interested enough to do a sanity check- I'll happily PM you the (now over a decade old) rumours (still publicly available on-line - but hard to find as they dont come up in Google searches)

I believe i was hinting at this sort of stuff 8 years ago. You guys are missing a few other even neater applications besides radar. But I'll watch to see where this conversation goes. Good to see mbk around.

Also as far as math goes mbk probably understands math better than anybody on ats. In fact he does.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

i recently came back to my hometown Rochester NY and i know someone working on mirrors and other optics for imaging systems.


I got to see a maser for the first time, very cool for such old tech.

also a sodium laser used as a fake star.

a reply to: noscopebacon


I like Raleigh guides. They look cool.

a reply to: mbkennel

here is a good paper in NATURE to get you started ass far as math and granted its not exactly what im talking about it gives the BASIC fundamentals and even one application along with the math for that as well

Nature journal on phase conjugation

Nature journal on phase conjugation


it is for sure an odd effect but once you get it you'll see where and what I'm talking about.


if you put phase conjugation in to google you don't really get a lot of info or at least info that is easily understood and thankfully there are a lot of academic papers on it and some patients

a reply to: noscopebacon


Bro. Mbk know what phase conjugation is. And believe me he doesnt need the maths. Trust me he's really good at that math stuff. I think he was goading you

a reply to: BASSPLYR

of course

but it does disserve an answer for others who are curious and have acumen to do the maths

and I'm by no stretch of the imagination a math wiz so sometimes things shake out of these types of conversations with others who have a better skill set than myself at certain facets of the topic.

Take me for instance i am more in the camp of using said tech and not the one imagining it up and busting out my graph paper to show my work.

Its like how we all use computers but couldnt fab our own i9 chips or even understand how they are made.

i have a very cursory and working knowledge of the facet of what i am working on and the observatory staff depending on the department have more or less. Compared to some people i work with i am a monkey pushing buttons and reading a manual how to do it lol.


maybe it was me who was fishing.

a reply to: Jukiodone

Please pm me above these rumors as I can not yet message. Reminds me of a song by Bob Marley. A *belly* full but we hungry, a hungry man is a hungry man.