Putin recognizes parts of Ukraine as independent (sends in "peacekeepers"), prompting initial US san

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: vNex92

Ukraine is Ukraine, Ukraine doesn't start and end at Kiev

Ummm…it doesn’t start at Crimea…either…

You do know that prior to 1918…Ukraine…was a part of Russia…

Context is key…



YouSir

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: ARM1968

Ukraine isn't part of NATO.

Ummm…erm…then why is NATO…arming Ukraine…?

Things that make you go…hmmm…



YouSir

Eyewitnesses told Radio Svoboda about the movement of a column of tanks and armored vehicles from Donetsk to the front line

www.radiosvoboda.org... LZ67vk_NAF9M2pAZ6SVPDncCm5Q

Residents of occupied Donetsk report the arrival of an extremely large column of tanks and armored vehicles from Donetsk in the north-western direction, to the line of contact, according to the project of Radio Liberty "Donbas. Realities".

According to several eyewitnesses at about 11 pm, the convoy passed about an hour ago right in the center of the city, University Street, and moved for an hour. People say they have not seen such a scale "in eight years".

Ukrainian TV out of Kyiv I believe,

a reply to: YouSir

Ummm…erm…then why is NATO…arming Ukraine…?

Only logical answer I can come up with is they're trying to find the most creative ways on how to waste my tax money.

I must say, they're getting incredibly better at it.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

Russian President Vladimir Putin is ordering the Russian military to help maintain peace in eastern Ukraine

www.foxnews.com...


For those who were fooled by Putin thinking this wasn't going to happen I hope you are willing to face reality now. Putin has invaded Ukraine.

On Jan 19th, President Biden gave Vladimir Put the "OK" for invading Ukraine a little bit.

Source: www.usatoday.com...

Vladimir doesn't have dementia. He remembered what Joe Biden said, and is doing what is allowed.

originally posted by: putnam6
Putin likely got indications from Macron, that the hold-outs were the UK and the US, and he knows neither Boris nor Joe will do anything militarily.

Commercial air traffic looks normal Poland, Hungary and Turkey all have had flights into Kyiv

Amazing little trackable military flights in Europe, almost like this was all expected and even perhaps negotiated

It does seem like it's all for show, like a distraction from or a prelude to something else.

Still, if this was negotiated, and I have no doubt they are all in communication about this, then why doesn't Russia just announce they support these states as independent and send in some troops without all the military muscle flexing?

Those rouge Ukraine states are ethnic Russian speaking people aligned with Russia and would welcome their comrades from across the border. Russia isn't annexing these rouge states and making them part of Russia, yet. I think they just want a buffer from from the west, a front guard, not that I think they need that if push comes to shove.

ETA: Big powerful countries like Russia and China don't need to expand, so it either about world dominance and control or it's just about controlling western expansion to the east.

One wonders what good yet more sanctions will do.

They don't seem to be stopping him, do they?

The bored Bond villain in the Kremlin just adjusts his monacle and strokes his cat.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

We are in this mess because of Biden. That's the point. And the next question is what happens if we keep allowing Russia to annex all their neighbors? Has peace ever been achieved by allowing a hostile nation more and more land?

a reply to: carewemust

Many members said over and over Putin said he won't invade so he won't and it's all anti-Russian propaganda to suggest he will. It was obvious a long time ago this was going to happen, Biden is the weakest president we have had in a long time, worse than Obama who was the weakest in my lifetime.

It's not a coincidence Russia made their move and invaded under Obama and now under Biden.

a reply to: YouSir

So your context is Ukraine was at one point in time part of Russia so it is fine to invade them now despite the fact they are a separate country now? Does England get back parts of America? Mexico? Do Spain and Portugal get back South American land?

Or is this 'logic' only good for Russia?

originally posted by: YouSir

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: ARM1968

Ukraine isn't part of NATO.

Ummm…erm…then why is NATO…arming Ukraine…?

Things that make you go…hmmm…

YouSir

To counter Russian aggression in the most ineffective way possible.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

We are in this mess because of Biden.

How do you figure?

I think Putin and Russia are the biggest decision makers in this.

We already brought their currency down by about half following Crimea via sanctions. Germany just halted the pipeline, so clearly Putin/Russia aren't dissuaded from economic impact.

What do you think we should do? Or what do you think we should have done to prevent this? I think it's pretty clear this was inevitable.

I'm not saying the US has zero involvement given NATO expansion further east... But again, it looks like this was something that was an intention all along from Putin.

What do you want to see?

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

Russian President Vladimir Putin is ordering the Russian military to help maintain peace in eastern Ukraine

www.foxnews.com...


For those who were fooled by Putin thinking this wasn't going to happen I hope you are willing to face reality now. Putin has invaded Ukraine.

On Jan 19th, President Biden gave Vladimir Put the "OK" for invading Ukraine a little bit.

Source: www.usatoday.com...

Vladimir doesn't have dementia. He remembered what Joe Biden said, and is doing what is allowed.

Just like Obama gave Putin permission to annex Crimea (which was part of Russia until the 1950's, BTW).
I'm starting to think that whenever the White House needs to get some minion to come on-air and say "Oh, he didn't really mean that", that in fact YES HE DAMN SURE MEANT IT, and the minion is just out there to obfuscate.

I think a history lesson would be helpful for everyone. The Soviet Union reorganized Eastern Europe for geographic convenience, with little concern as to whether the resulting nations really made any sense.

Czechoslovakia forced the Czechs and Slovaks together, and its telling that they went their separate ways as soon as it was possible to make that happen.

Yugoslavia was even worse, forcing together a bunch of ethnicities in the Adriatic that required full-on dictatorship to keep the country from dissolving.

Like it or not, the Donbass region has always been majority Russian, ever since Russia took the region from the Ottoman Empire in the 18th Century. It first saw major settlement under the reign of Catherine the Great. Still, the Soviet Union ended up including the region in Ukraine. In this vein, Crimea was re-assigned to Ukraine in the 1950's, even though it had been part of Russia since the late 18th Century.

The only real outlier is Kaliningrad, which the Soviet Union took after World War 2, and became part of Russia. I can't say why it didn't end up as part of either Poland or Lithuania. The majority of the post-WW2 population is Russian, but as I've demonstrated that sort of thing really didn't matter to the Soviets.

Putin is very sneaky...he is in the Ukraine now....what's next? I think we are observing the way he slithers.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Putin is taking advantage of having a weak President that he knows he can do whatever he want and get away with it. I want to see a proactive President that exudes the air of power and confidence and exerts pressure on Putin before he steals Ukraine, not after. Putin knows he got away with Crimea under Biden's watch and he knows he can do the same again.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

That doesn't really answer my question.

What would another president do aside from sanctions? War?

originally posted by: putnam6
Putin likely got indications from Macron, that the hold-outs were the UK and the US, and he knows neither Boris nor Joe will do anything militarily.

Commercial air traffic looks normal Poland, Hungary and Turkey all have had flights into Kyiv

Amazing little trackable military flights in Europe, almost like this was all expected and even perhaps negotiated

That's what my husband postulated, that this is all just a good show to camouflage a quiet, negotiated hand-off, likely made some time ago.

His reasoning being? Observe the Ukranian president.

He sure keeps brushing everything off like it's just pesty flies at the picnic, no?

That's certainly worth examining.

At this point there is no stopping him if he wants the rest of Ukraine, time to take steps was months ago when they started building up troops.

Any active resistance now would be feeding troops into a meat grinder, pretty much until the russians run out of pre-stocked supplies.

Of course while not getting actively involved on the ground would be the smart position right now I am not sure Biden is smart enough to set aside his ego once the world realizes what an incompetent tool he is and the world tells him that.