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Jacques Vallée Still Doesn’t Know What UFOs Are

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posted on Feb, 23 2022 @ 08:58 PM

originally posted by: 38181
KPB, the trickster might use our “feelings” from the gut, for its own purposes right? It depends on our “feelings” more than we know, if so, is there a way to use that to benefit us, use it to our advantage. Or is my thoughts bunk.

Good question.

What happens to 'experiencers' is not intended to be of any benefit
to them. That's why 5000 years of yoga says to ignore the flashy lights
and visual and other sensory BS..

Some people can eventually make something positive out of it,
but it's not innately positive for humans at any rate.

It's 'neutral'. And damn difficult to deal with.


edit on 23-2-2022 by KellyPrettyBear because: typo

posted on Feb, 23 2022 @ 09:00 PM
a reply to: peaceinoutz

I've never cared for that model of his either.

I mean, it makes some valid points...

It was a start I guess ...


posted on Feb, 23 2022 @ 09:13 PM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Anything that only operates externally, at best works on the imagination and may be about something material, not the heart which is the seat of spiritual experience. So, experiencers beware. Since they know our imaginations are subject to error.

It’s like watching workmen going to their worksite carrying tools. Is that at all spiritual? No. But does tell us someone is building something. And since we are blind to most of what they do it's only our imaginations that reach for meaning.

posted on Feb, 23 2022 @ 09:24 PM
a reply to: peaceinoutz


But the utter sweet gist of it, that you could put on a T-shirt,
is that whatever else we are.. or can become.. we are
an organic, analog creativity subsystem for something else
that also has characteristics of a computer.

(the short would be: We are a creativity computing subsystem,
or "We Dream for the Universe"). Something like that.

Our brain seems mostly off limits, unless we form a link, between
our lower body and the brain, via hormomes).

The same things yoga can do, seeing faeries or UFOs or god or jesus
can do too..

It causes a complex biochemical response, that temporarily gives
us that spiritual high, linking the stomach and the brain in a
manner of speaking.

We like the high.. that's the bait.

When it first all came together, it seemed awful to me.. but
there's not necessarily anyting wrong with symbiosis.

It's really just 'the universe knowing itself through us' just like
even Carl Sagain might have said.

It can be truly beautiful.

But some people 'summon' blue orbs that kill them, etc..

we are babes in toyland at present, and may never figure
this stuff out completely.

That's my take.


posted on Feb, 23 2022 @ 10:55 PM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

But some people 'summon' blue orbs that kill them, etc..

we are babes in toyland at present, and may never figure
this stuff out completely.

I like Gurdjieff’s, were broken machine, analogy

And those who seek God are actually going against God!

Now please, don’t misinterpret that.

It is similar to the gnostic demiurge theory: As above so below as cosmic law informs us what is above is also below and what is above then for a time is God, but that God now is a demiurge, highly imperfect but by the same cosmic law we have to reflect by nature that imperfection until that entity itself is transformed into the right state of The above, so the below can have it easy naturally.

Then as above so below becomes perfection reflecting perfection, the broken machine becomes fixed

But all that is a secret...

...shhh...don't tell anybody

one day I will tell


When He says

Ana Amir El Islam

I am the Prince of Peace!
edit on 23-2-2022 by peaceinoutz because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 23 2022 @ 11:28 PM
a reply to: peaceinoutz

Naw we are good..

I went 9 rounds out of the 10 with the demiurge concept
and came back with an interesting result.

The "right hand path" -ers, always talk about becoming
one with god and piffle like that.

Well, as science has shown, 'god' went to a hell of a big
bother, to detonate that low entropy 'heaven',
and now us stupid humans try and overcome
all that hard work?

I don't buy the cyclic answer for that either...
more of an eternal now guy.

I've swum with angels and bunnies and the great work,
and the work of gurdjieff.. pretty much all the sick,
creative minds.. eastern and western both..

your thoughts and concepts probaby cannot bother
me.. maybe we should discuss divine cannibalism
sometime, or soul maggots.

But I digress.

I spent like 30 years, discarding all concepts from
others, to experience things for myself.

That doesn't mean that I'm right, but what it does
mean, is that concepts from others are like barnacles
I haven't managed to scrape off, and I only keep
them around as wrong approximations of what's
actually there, and so that I can attempt communication
about all this.

I guess, I do have a final response on your order/disorder

It's obvious that things are 'broken by design' and not
meant to be 'fixed'. spiritual evolution is the worst
sham/scam of all.

Every quanta must someday take a turn as the most
unpleasant set of possibilities in Hilbert Space..
I was 8 years old, when I first saw the shape
of emergent spacetime.. and I called it,
"the kaleidoscope".. though the concept of a rotating
engine that stamps out all the possibilities of Hilbert
space in conjunction with an 'eternal now' is rather
difficult to communciate.

Though I suppose this post should be removed by a
mod, as it has little to do with Jacques Vallee.

Nice chatting!



As old RB said it, on the last page..

"Everything in this book is wrong"


edit on 23-2-2022 by KellyPrettyBear because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 23 2022 @ 11:47 PM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

This is apple’s and orange’s I suppose…..but JV used the word Kaleidoscope In describing

…..”In his book Science Interdite, Vallée wrote: “UFO phenomenon looks like a kaleidoscope, which has three distinct levels: physical level and technological; sociological level and ultimately a personal level, subliminal, which causes subtle nuances of the human psyche.”….


posted on Feb, 24 2022 @ 12:15 AM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

And at the end of the beginning, all we want is freedom from the pains and what we seek is what we are---seekers after that bliss.
The station state of the all--post demiurge (negative energy broken machine) so to reflect that energy machine in perfection-bliss.
Our cries of ouch are but the pain of separation…
Deny we seek nothing but the bliss, deny we seek to flee from nothing but the anti-bliss
My first teacher told me, man fears one thing, pain, and the fear of pain
And he seeks one thing, the bliss and the expectation of it.

All the intellectuals and we brokenhearted can't deny the above.

and we know how impossible it is because (as above so below) tells us right now the above is pretty dam low...!
So as Gurdjieff says, he who seeks God is actually going against God.

posted on Feb, 24 2022 @ 07:27 AM

originally posted by: idusmartias

originally posted by: chunder

originally posted by: idusmartias
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

He's not a contributor.

Really, then who on earth is ?

No human. No one knows anything about the mystery. No one including Vallee has had any interaction with alleged "craft occupants" regardless of what has been claimed by anyone. I have never lowered my standards for irrefutable evidence. So claims by abductees get ignored. This is my private opinion to which I'm entitled.

It's your personal opinion to which you are entitled, it's hardly private when stated on a public forum and is then obviously there to be discussed, although also obviously there is no point in doing so.

posted on Feb, 24 2022 @ 08:32 AM

originally posted by: mirageman
I'd say it's unlikely any alien spacecraft crashed in 1947 because ...

Thanks, mirageman!! A single star from me feels so inadequate.

You are an ATS Giant!! Much respect.

posted on Feb, 24 2022 @ 09:49 AM
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

I honetly don't like just going all 'reality mouth spewing'.

Anyone can do that.

I prefer to show my work, step by step, to show how I came
to various conclusions.

Yes, likely apples and oranges..

But you know, people 'infected by the phenomenon' to use
the modern, wretched terminology,

can and often do 'feed off each other' via this link that

I've NEVER experienced 'telepathy'-ish type stuff, except
with another person experiencing the same house
guest, and even then, it tends to be at such a cognitively
deep level, you never sense it.

Was there a link between a word I used in 1969 and
what he wrote then... 'possible'.


posted on Feb, 24 2022 @ 09:54 AM
a reply to: peaceinoutz

There's no question that Gurdjieff was an experiencer.

Avoiding pain and seeking bliss is a dead end.

However, quite comically, even the 'unvierse' does that..
we are a contact high, our imaginations.. our bliss...
our cognitive subsystems are a haven for the seeming
cognitivie dissonance of living outside of the certainty
caused by entropy and the false arrow of time.

Anyway.. it's usually better to chop wood and carry
water than to expose this kind of stuff.


posted on Feb, 24 2022 @ 10:16 AM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Avoiding pain and seeking bliss is a dead end.

Its human's nature, dead-end or not.

We do that as we breathe. Sure it's usually a failed endeavor ( cause of the demiurgic-- as above so below present state)but we did it naturally. And will always do it. No one seeks pain or suffering and all seek those blissful stimulants, its existential reality. Built into our DNA. When we factor this into the ufo equation then we will find out its root, its reality, its meaning...!

posted on Feb, 24 2022 @ 10:21 AM
a reply to: peaceinoutz

you want meaning?

here you go; all sentient beings share this same fate,
even 'demiurges':

from The Magus by John Fowles

Once upon a time there was a young prince, who believed in all things but three. He did not believe in princesses, he did not believe in islands, he did not believe in God. His father, the king, told him that such things did not exist. As there were no princesses or islands in his father's domaines, and no sign of God, the young prince believed his father.

But then, one day, the prince ran away from his palace. He came to the next land. There, to his astonishment, from every coast he saw islands, and on these islands, strange and troubling creatures whom he dared not name. As he was searching for a boat, a man in full evening dress approached him along the shore.

"Are those real islands?" asked the young prince.

"Of course they are real islands," said the man in evening dress.

"And those strange and troubling creatures?"

"They are all genuine and authentic princesses."

"Then God also must exist!" cried the prince.

"I am God," replied the man in full evening dress, with a bow.

The young prince returned home as quickly as he could.

"So you are back," said his father, the king.

"I have seen islands, I have seen princesses, I have seen God," said the prince reproachfully.

The king was unmoved. "Neither real islands, nor real princesses, nor a real God, exist."

"I saw them!"

"Tell me how God was dressed."

"God was in full evening dress."

"Were the sleeves of his coat rolled back?"

The prince remembered that they had been. The king smiled. "That is the uniform of a magician. You have been deceived."

At this, the prince returned to the next land, and went to the same shore, where once again he came upon the man in full evening dress. "My father the king has told me who you are," said the young prince indignantly. "You deceived me last time, but not again. Now I know that those are not real islands and real princesses, because you are a magician."

The man on the shore smiled. "It is you who are deceived, my boy. In your father's kingdom there are many islands and many princesses. But you are under your father’s spell, so you cannot see them."

The prince returned pensively home. When he saw his father, he looked him in the eyes. "Father, is it true that you are not a real king, but only a magician?"

The king smiled, and rolled back his sleeves. "Yes, my son, I am only a magician."

"Then the man on the shore was God."

"The man on the shore was another magician."

"I must know the real truth, the truth beyond magic."

"There is no truth beyond magic," said the king.

The prince was full of sadness. He said, "I will kill myself."

The king by magic caused death to appear. Death stood in the door and beckoned to the prince. The prince shuddered. He remembered the beautiful but unreal islands and the unreal but beautiful princesses "Very well," he said. "I can bear it."

"You see, my son," said the king, "you too now begin to be a magician."

I don't think I made my point properly...yes.. it's 'human nature'.

You've never heard the phrase 'yogi's do everything backwards and upside down'?

But even that misses the mark..

posted on Feb, 24 2022 @ 10:57 AM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Nasiruddin lost his keys and was bent down in a corner inspecting the area around the left side of the room.
His buddy saw him and asked. “What are you looking for?

He said, my keys, I lost yesterday

Where did you lose them?
"Outside in the garden" answered Nasiruddin

What!? "Then why are you looking over there?" shouted his buddy

“Oh, because there’s more light over here"


His buddy= everybody else

edit on 24-2-2022 by peaceinoutz because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 24 2022 @ 11:12 AM
a reply to: peaceinoutz


There is safety in studying multiple approaches of thought..
science (primarily), but occultism, spiriutality, ufology..
that increases your light sources.. and then you can look
for correlations.

Some would say that some of those are 'dark sources' I
understand, but gaining more understanding of how the
human works, how self-deception works.... negative
learning is still learning.


posted on Feb, 26 2022 @ 05:04 PM
Still watching golden girls.

posted on Mar, 2 2022 @ 09:31 AM
Wow, this is quite a thread. Filled with opinions; some wise, some petty, some reasoned, some flailing. And that's what debate is all about, although speculation is more than a hobby to some, to some it's an obsession. But hey, if your going to get obsessive about something, this is probably the best topic to obsess over.

My honest reaction to the debate in this thread is one of profound sympathy, and for many, heartfelt pity. Someone mentioned dying without ever knowing if UFOs and alien contact is real, and how so many do, despite seeking answers all their lives. That is overwhelmingly sad to me.

But at the same time, it's fairly a self-imposed decision. Nobody knows everything about the extent and nature of aliens or even our alien contact, but there's a century of documented sightings and contact, and that's plenty of evidence to draw some reasonable conclusions.

I guess the sheer number of opinions are where a lot of you get bogged down, like arguing angels dancing on a pin. But you're arguing with other people that don't know, so what do you expect to accomplish? You're playing tennis without a net. Or racquets. Or lines on the court. Just watching a ball bounce until it runs out of momentum and rolls to a stop.

So I have deep pity for you. It's the most important subject there is and all you can do is speculate from the time you're born until the time you die. Like reading a great unfinished novel. Or more accurately, an unfinished reference book.

I've never had to speculate. I've been a participant, starting over half a century ago. But seeing the type of woo and confusion, and contention I see in this thread, I'm almost glad I know as much as I do. But only almost. So enjoy the debate for now. Carry on, thanks.
edit on 2-3-2022 by OneWhoKnowsSaidBudd because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 6 2022 @ 10:40 PM
a reply to: OneWhoKnowsSaidBudd

"But at the same time, it's fairly a self-imposed decision. Nobody knows everything about the extent and nature of aliens or even our alien contact, but there's a century of documented sightings and contact, and that's plenty of evidence to draw some reasonable conclusions."

idusmartias: Nobody knows anything about the "nature of aliens or even our alien contact". All you are doing is spewing about a topic where your comments are questionable as if we're not intelligent to see behind the curtain of truth.

"I've never had to speculate. I've been a participant, starting over half a century ago. But seeing the type of woo and confusion, and contention I see in this thread, I'm almost glad I know as much as I do. But only almost. So enjoy the debate for now. Carry on, thanks."

idusmartias: A participant in what, dreaming, self-created fantasies, wishful thinking? What is it that you know? Elucidate us, the ignorant. Tell us something we don't know or could not imagine also.

edit on 3 6 2022 by idusmartias because: To correct my grammar.

posted on Mar, 11 2022 @ 06:17 PM
J Vallee and Uri Geller are going to be on Coast to Coast 4/16/22

Uri Geller / UFO Investigations

Uri Geller / UFO Investigations
Wednesday - March 16 2022

George Noory

Uri Geller, Jacques F. Vallee, Paola Harris

First Half: Uri Geller is the world's most investigated and celebrated paranormalist. He is famous around the globe for his mind bending psychic powers and has led a very unique life shrouded in debate, controversy, and mystery. Uri has been studied by scientists who worked with Albert Einstein, worked with the FBI and CIA, has been a pupil of Salvador Dali, and he is also related to Sigmund Freud. He will discuss his perspective on world affairs as well as his latest work in areas of the paranormal.

Second Half: One of the most prolific, best-selling, and most quoted authors ever in the field of ufology, Silicon Valley entrepreneur Jacques F. Vallee and Italo-American photojournalist and investigative reporter in the field of UFOs Paola Harris will discuss their work on UFO phenomenon, as well as the government's handling of UFO investigations and disclosure.

edit on 11-3-2022 by ColoradoTemplar because: (no reason given)

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