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Jacques Vallée Still Doesn’t Know What UFOs Are

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posted on Feb, 20 2022 @ 12:52 PM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I appreciate the further details. It was quite helpful.

I'm not seeking death, but I'm trying to figure how that might apply as a metaphor. Taoism is the lens that has best allowed me to fumble at esoteric spirituality. I think death is an apt metaphor for emptiness, wu forms. I need to flip and turn this puzzle piece for a while, see where it fits.

I appreciate the response.

posted on Feb, 20 2022 @ 12:59 PM
Vallee never claimed he knew what Ufos were so he’s off the hook on this one.

Even John Keel and his theory about ultra-dimensional entities from the electromagnetic spectrum he devised, didn’t prevent him from saying basically there are other possibilities he couldn’t figure out.

He like Vallee were IMO good researchers who did come up with some things, such as most ufos show up on Wednesday, whatever that’s worth.

To my friend mm, the point is we all know most or a vast majority of them are prosaic but the small percentage that is not is outside our range of understanding. Such as the many unexplained triangle ufos sighted in Belgium we all know and parts of the US, and many other brick and mortar or other type ufo phenomena.

posted on Feb, 20 2022 @ 01:19 PM
a reply to: Ksihkehe

Taoism is much safer than Kundalini Yoga. Kundalini yoga
iks like trying to disarm an atom bomb while the timer
is winding down, in the hope that if you defuse it,
you will get a prize!

If you simply refuse to ever maintain a mula bandha
lock, you probably won't die from any esoteric

For example moderns often like the micro orbit and macro
orbit practice forms.

But even if you do that, eventually the brain will
start to overheat in most cases, and your imagination
will flare up, and you will then have to contend
with what is real and what is not real.

One of the FEW things I admire about old yoga
practictioners, some sects anyway... is the
emphasis of strengthening the rational mind..
it's a real safeguard...

yes, perhaps your enhanced imagination might
cough up something very good.. I mean, it worked
for Einstein, Tesla, that Benzene ring guy.. all
sorts of people.

But ultimately the challenge is this:

is all your 'spirituality' worth anyting?

have you gone up the mountain and gotten
your brains fried and left it at that?

or have you made something of it, that is

Then you ride the oxen down the mountain
and chop wood and carry water like
before.. only now your mind is more



edit on 20-2-2022 by KellyPrettyBear because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 20 2022 @ 02:23 PM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I was being facetious, of course. But most UFO stories are ultimately worthless because of the lack of information and data provided. Although nowadays, technology has taken us to the point where we can identify aircraft flight paths, satellite orbits, rocket launches and most celestial bodies in our skies within minutes on the web. Plus of course the growth of CCTV, smartphones, sky cameras and even dashcams means more things than ever can be captured on camera.

I often point out how the Norway Spiral in 2009 was fairly rapidly explained as a failed Russian missile test.

Or the Chelyabinsk Meteorite in 2013. Which, despite going totally undetected until it entered the atmosphere we knew fairly rapidly what it was because it was captured on numerous dashcams and CCTV.

In the past, these cases might have remained mysterious to become classic UFO cases.

Ufology is supposedly the study of unidentified flying objects. JV's esteemed colleague and friend, J. Allen Hynek said many years ago before his death

I realised we don’t have UFOs.... .... only UFO reports.....

And nothing has changed in decades. Unless you believe Mr. LE Zondo and his chums tale that somehow the US military captured a real alien spacecraft, gave it away to private contractors and subsequently lost track of where it was.

Sometimes we should just admit "we don't know", like Mr. Vallee.

edit on 20/2/2022 by mirageman because: ...

posted on Feb, 20 2022 @ 04:11 PM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I never went to the mountain, but I think I know where you're going.

I don't think a hermitage is useful or practical. I always found it strange that certain sects of various religions discourage or prohibit interactions with those outside their sect. I think the universal truth should be the same on a secluded mountain or on a crowded subway.

I don't consider Taoism spiritual to be totally honest. It's worth is intrinsic, but only to me. I consider it an abstract map to find "the way", with "the way" being an ever moving target. I'm sure there are veins of this running through other esoteric texts. The Tao Te Ching was just the delivery system that worked for me.

Many people are looking for answers, but they've put the cart before the horse. We can't recognize an answer until we've discovered the right question. I'd be very happy to find the question before I die, but I'm not worried about the answer too much.

Thanks again. I enjoy hearing your take on these topics.

posted on Feb, 20 2022 @ 04:26 PM

I realised we don’t have UFOs.... .... only UFO reports.....

Is the single best quote of all time in UFOLOGY.

I swear by it.

There IS something ephermeral, impossible to chase down
wtih a crude butterfly net, and even then human perception
destroys it.

Just think if all this creative energy and focus could be redirected
to something that would actually help someone.. it would be

But these existential things hook us like trophy trout.. so yes,
it might just be better to yank the bandaid and get the
fuss all over with... if that's possible.

Then we can all get back to chopping wood and carrying water.

edit on 20-2-2022 by KellyPrettyBear because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 20 2022 @ 04:38 PM
a reply to: Ksihkehe

I was referring to the Ten Ox Herding pictures of course..
there is a vast wisdom there... a very human, common-sense,
grouding one, that's why a lot of people don't like it.

'Spirituality' is the augmentation of the intuition and imagination
through subtle changes in the biology of the human body.

Jut like with Ufology, 99% of it is pure crap.

It's my pleasure to communicate with others, I seldom do.


posted on Feb, 20 2022 @ 05:11 PM
You know not a whole pile about spirituality I'm sorry to say, though your terming suggests should one look in the mirror and trip on subtle changes of appearance due to feelings of euphoria then ignorance can quite easily send one off in a self indulgent trance of life as a mirror with a steady stare and a slip, yeah that's it, spirituality. And i, i may read on.
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

edit on 20-2-2022 by ONIONBAGMENACE because: know

posted on Feb, 20 2022 @ 05:23 PM

It's always nice to hear different people's experiences and views on ATS.


posted on Feb, 20 2022 @ 05:41 PM
Say hello to my little fwiend. Interesting thread and wholeheartedly agreeable on the noted ideas of the subject in topic.

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

posted on Feb, 20 2022 @ 05:47 PM
Agree all agreed lest we argue.
a reply to: Baablacksheep

posted on Feb, 20 2022 @ 05:54 PM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Why thank you, of course.
Above Top Secret is and always has been a wonderful place to endulge in a variety of opinions and opinionated standings.

posted on Feb, 20 2022 @ 06:10 PM
What would Cousteau say?

posted on Feb, 21 2022 @ 07:24 AM

originally posted by: mirageman
Most UFOs are hoaxes, misperceptions, illusions, hallucinations and mental aberrations.

No UFOs have been proven to be of other-worldly or extradimensional origin.

All other UFO cases lack sufficient data to prove anything conclusive.

Hey mirageman!!

Have you ever expressed your take on Roswell? Got a link to a really good synopsis here @ ATS?

Maybe too off-topic, but can you give us just your short version here in thread? Confounds me that professional soldiers from the late '40s, could be so far off-the-mark on something as mundane as a weather balloon.

posted on Feb, 21 2022 @ 09:47 AM
a reply to: mirageman

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

From MM post:

……” Ufology is supposedly the study of unidentified flying objects. JV's esteemed colleague and friend, J. Allen Hynek said many years ago before his death”…

“I realised we don’t have UFOs.... .... only UFO reports.....”

Is the single best quote of all time in UFOLOGY.

I swear by it.

I have a different slant on “we don’t have UFOs” ……..perhaps not aliens, but perhaps our own. A near future thread indeed.

edit on 21-2-2022 by Ophiuchus1 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 21 2022 @ 09:49 AM
I do like some of his hypotheses though, that whom or what isn't actually Extra Terrestrial, and also connecting the idea of alien encounters to Faeries.

He more or less tries to tie it to some grand psychic illusion of sorts, that it has intertwined with religions an historical events to an extent. And that it just picking our brains to the point of possible absolute insanity.

That is if it all from the same source whatever it might be, it cool theory, just leaves much to be desired though.

He did say that ufos are like looking into a windows of sorts.
edit on 21-2-2022 by Proto88 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-2-2022 by Proto88 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 21 2022 @ 10:24 AM
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Well, we do have members of a variety of cults
who participate in the UFO forum; one is all
about time travel; one is all about alien AI,
and some crowley cults used to be here..

Plenty of explanations other than 'alienz did it'.


posted on Feb, 21 2022 @ 11:03 AM
a reply to: anyone

Okay, so let's boil this down to a proposition:

There is an entity that manifests phenomena which appear to contravene the rules of reality as we understand them and which appears, from our point of view, to actively resist investigation in an intelligent, indeed perverse way.

Obviously the specific phenomena manifested are of limited relevance, since they are somehow manufactured to suit the occasion. It's the general proposition that neds to be investigated.


posted on Feb, 21 2022 @ 12:37 PM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I'm unfamiliar with Joshua Cutchin or the book you mentioned. The Trickster and the Paranormal seems familiar although I could be mistakenly associating this title with the works of Jaques Vallee.

Yes, all ideas you've presented here (and elsewhere) are understandable, making perfect sense. Much of the material is complicated by its very nature and difficult to mull internally, let alone discuss in open forums such as ATS. Yet, you've always managed to do just that with more or less uniform coherence.

I suspect that our species bears much greater responsibility for, or connection with, paranormal manifestations of all manners. I lack the ability to coherently detail my thoughts at length, at least to my overly-exacting standards. But, I do, absolutely, accept this connection as fact and have detected evidence thereof in nearly all fields of paranormal study.

Indications of this connection exist in cryptozoology, though I'm admittedly much less knowledgeable in this area to offer more substantial thoughts. For instance, the oft-mentioned mental sensations described in sasquatch encounters that create preconceptions in the witness from experience onset. Tenuous, this example, to be sure, but I did admit to relevant shortcomings...

In no other field of high strangeness, however, is this connective interplay better evidenced than that of UFOlogy. Herein exists overwhelming credible, objective data supporting a direct relation between the appearance and behavior of object(s) and witness(s). Per my research, this inferred causality intertwines all aspects of the encounter - from physical descriptions to motion characteristics - even the most mundane details offer greater insight into an apparent purposeful, and perhaps unavoidable, connection.

I must reign in my scattering thoughts while still easily managed. I could continue such thinnly supported yet passionate exposition ad nauseam, but, for sake of others hereabouts, I now the floor relinquish.

By all means though, KPB, carry on at will. Please...

edit on 21-2-2022 by ChayOphan because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 21 2022 @ 12:46 PM
a reply to: mirageman

I often wonder if this technological destruction of mystery is, itself, a significant component in a much more involved undertaking.

Put differently, maybe the Amish are onto something...

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