Ancient methods of dealing with Granite

… nothing from the experts on ‘over cutting ‘ hard stone with hand saws?!
Hmmm .
Maybe ignorance can only be denied when it meets selective criteria .

a reply to: Akragon

Nimrud Lens. Would have made a laser from it. They have found these lenses all over Ancient civilizations. Some archaeologists claim they could be eyeglasses but they aren’t found in pairs and they don’t do to much for seeing better. Rock crystal using a circular coil having (n) turns, the field produced is (n) times as large as that produced by a single turn. It happens because the current in each circular turn has same direction and the field due to each turn adds up, and this will produce a laser beam. Petroglyphs are found in every ancient site.

a reply to: Akragon

Oh and the reason for all the “scoop” cuts is because when you use ruby or crystal to produce lasers, they will emit short pulses and not a continuous pulse.

a reply to: mcsnacks77

interesting theory...

I'd buy that before stone hammering, but im no archeologist

I seem to recall reading something about very large saws... like 10+ feet in diameter, which would make sense considering they've found saw cuts in many of these places...

This is forensic evidence of a circular saw in action .
The arc between two points on this curve gives a calculation that this circular saw was 35ft in diameter.
I think this stone is found at Abu Ghirab .
Excuse wrong spelling of the name.
A 35ft saw would be an excellent and efficient way of cutting granite as a revolving blade of that size would give you an excellent, continuous , cutting face(blade/cutting edge) of 109.96 ft (the circumference of that circle) .
These people thought big, just look at what they made, my opinion is that they thought this way about their tooling when necessary . reply to: Akragon

a reply to: bluesfreak

totally agree... Theres one abandoned stone in Egypt that has a cut thats at least a foot long... its a clear mistake. Its a miscut that they obviously didn't notice because it continued along what was supposed to be a straight line for all that time

They had to be cutting this rock really fast and didn't notice the misalignment... couldn't possibly have been done with any slow technique... skilled masons wouldn't intentionally miscut a huge piece of rock that was clearly a labor intensive project

and as usual i can't find a picture of it when i need it... lol

a reply to: Akragon

Here’s a couple of shots of a cut that interests me as a machinist.
First pic shows the whole cut. It’s unfinished. Or barely started , whichever.
The person working on this piece was plainly trying to start a curved cut .
Question 1) would you try and bend a copper saw along this curve and try to cut with the saw blade bent into an arc?
Anyone who fabricated anything would know the answer to this question.
To me , it’s very much a ‘scoring out’ ‘roughing out’ of the curve to be cut before the real work began .
The second close-up picture of the ‘slit’ produced by the tool shows a ‘restart point . The higher ‘ledge ‘ is the first cut, the deeper cut is the second pass through the arc .

It’s interesting to me that the cut is more shallow in the centre of this rough arc , whereas the edges either side are plainly deeper.
You wouldn’t get this with a large two-man AE copper saw. The cut would be quite even throughout its depth . Why isn’t it?
Because it shows the work of a different tool. Not a chisel, or a copper saw, or a pounding stone.






a reply to: Akragon

Don’t you just love that ‘gatekeeper’ silence….

originally posted by: bluesfreak
Don’t you just love that ‘gatekeeper’ silence….

Because we don't come here very often. What are you concerned about now?

Looks to be a modern tool was used to cut a stone. What is the context of the stone? Is this astounding to you? How do you explain what it is? Those two images are not found on the internet so where did they come from? No ruins I'm aware of.

In the 'we think the ancients had powered tools' group, why don't you just find evidence of the development of powered tools, there invention, construction, and the infrastructure needed to make such machines and maintain them plus their abandonment and their disappearance?

I mean you have the example of how long the 'current' culture took to develop powered tools so why not look for those developments in ancient Egypt?

originally posted by: bluesfreak
Don’t you just love that ‘gatekeeper’ silence….

We've all learned that you're just not worth replying to.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: bluesfreak
Don’t you just love that ‘gatekeeper’ silence….

We've all learned that you're just not worth replying to.

Harte

In part but the comedic value of some of his pompous declarations are noteworthy. (note this isn't an insult it is an accurate description of many of his 'pronouncements or pontifications').

Odd he didn't want to discuss it when we asked him the context and provenance....I wonder what that means?

Looks to be a modern tool was used to cut a stone. What is the context of the stone? Is this astounding to you? How do you explain what it is? Those two images are not found on the internet so where did they come from? No ruins I'm aware of. In the 'we think the ancients had powered tools' group, why don't you just find evidence of the development of powered tools, there invention, construction, and the infrastructure needed to make such machines and maintain them plus their abandonment and their disappearance? I mean you have the example of how long the 'current' culture took to develop powered tools so why not look for those developments in ancient Egypt?

Yes Hans, it DOES look like power tools were used, as do many AE pieces of stone, hence many peoples queries on here.

But let’s just clear up my position on this for the -nth time with you: I do not believe the AE had ‘power’ tools. I believe they had developed hand wound VERSIONS of cutting tools.
A simple flywheel added to any spindle will generate and add significant torque.
In my profession you can cut steel at 300 rpm easily using either steel itself or today something harder. If the cutting tool shape is correct , it will ‘dig in ‘ and cut easily.300 rpm is easily achievable by hand winding . Easily .

The piece I showed is I believe also from Abu Ghirab but will double check .

There are many ‘over cuts ‘ at Giza already shown and mentioned , perhaps you could comment on them first, as they were posted first and oh so easy to find on the net - how and WHY one would overcut into Granite or Basalt with a copper hand saw?
Best answers please .

The ‘where are the tools ‘ question is always the most ignorant of all —
Perhaps you could show me ALL the tooling that created , say, the Eiffel Tower in France ?
I would like to see the casting moulds, the machines that made the rivets, the actual cranes used to hoist huge cast sections into place . The foundries too. I want to see any possible evidence of extrusion and I want to see the metal presses that helped this project .
Where are they now? I would like you to produce them for me. All of them. Each tool.
It was only completed in 1889, so not long ago really.
Where are they ?
There are many sections of this monument that could me made in several ways and retrospectively argued over.
I would like you to physically produce for me each tool.

a reply to: Hanslune

We've all learned that you're just not worth replying to.

Or it’s because you can’t converse with me on an engineering level because a) it’s my job (this job involves LOTS of thinking about OTHER WAYS to complete a task
B) your knowledge of engineering and fabrication falls WAY short of mine , so you would rather mock out of self protection .

Maybe you can answer WHY one would overcut with a copper handsaw into Granite or basalt, what with it being so time consuming and physical by your preferred method….
a reply to: Harte

originally posted by: bluesfreak

We've all learned that you're just not worth replying to.

Or it’s because you can’t converse with me on an engineering level because a) it’s my job (this job involves LOTS of thinking about OTHER WAYS to complete a task
B) your knowledge of engineering and fabrication falls WAY short of mine , so you would rather mock out of self protection .

Maybe you can answer WHY one would overcut with a copper handsaw into Granite or basalt, what with it being so time consuming and physical by your preferred method….
a reply to: Harte

Hundreds of reasons, the simplest being an inexperienced worker making the wrong cut.
Yet you can't bring yourself to consider other reasons.
Even though you say "this job involves LOTS of thinking about OTHER WAYS to complete a task," You can't allow yourself to even consider other possibilities. Ergo, not worth replying to.

Harte

Hundreds of reasons, the simplest being an inexperienced worker making the wrong cut. Yet you can't bring yourself to consider other reasons. Even though you say "this job involves LOTS of thinking about OTHER WAYS to complete a task," You can't allow yourself to even consider other possibilities. Ergo, not worth replying to.

Hundreds of reasons??!!!!!!! Hundreds eh?!!!
Dont make me laugh.
An ‘inexperienced ‘ worker sawing for a few more hours after a stone has been released ?
Codswallop.
Is that literally all you’ve got in response to my post?
I have tried to think of all the possibilities , but of course ,I don’t have to quantify that to you .
Harte , you always like to bang on about Stocks granite cutting ‘experiments’ as some sort of ‘benchmark’ of proof of concept.
Well , stocks’ video of granite sawing shows just how physical it was, and at that moment in time, one could argue that Stocks and his cohorts were ‘inexperienced ‘ at cutting granite.
Think they would have bothered, or made the mistake of , OVERCUTTING past the slab if they were to extract a slab?
No way.
I’d imagine that once you reached that critical point in the cut where the slab came free , you would stop right away, wipe your brow, take a deep breath and you and your sawing partner would smile at each other like “ phew , that’s done!”
No bloody way would you carry on. Not even for a laugh in that material.
A very unserious and unsatisfactory answer from someone who likes to come across as the ‘teacher ‘ for us dumb plebs.
Absolute nonsense .

You see , on the one hand, you say “cut” when we all know that the official line on this type of AE sawing is not a “cut “ but more of an abrasive ‘grind’.
A “ cut “ implies speed, which is not in your claim.
It is us, the ‘fringe’ ,to you, who are implying “ cuts” of a speed and ease beyond grinding .
The only reason that you would overcut that material is because you could , and that it was relatively easy.

I’m Not going to blunt further ,or possibly crack or knock teeth out of my presumably quite expensive 2man AE copper saw to just overcut this granite for the sake of it , or for a laugh .

a reply to: Harte

a reply to: bluesfreak

agreed... an overcut would have had to have been done while cutting quite fast...

No one makes a mistake in slow motion without realizing it... lol

I have often wondered if the AE used the human powered hamster wheel to supply the motive force for the cutting of stone at or near the building site .....
a large dia blade would have a good peripheral speed once spinning....one would just need a suitable in-feed for the stone into the blade....a happy combination of speed and feed.
because the machine is made of timber....once no longer needed the timber is repurposed ....or chopped up and burnt..
The Ancient Greeks had to get the idea from some where....Egypt seems to be a possible place...
just my fringe thoughts.......a reply to: bluesfreak

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: bluesfreak

We've all learned that you're just not worth replying to.

Or it’s because you can’t converse with me on an engineering level because a) it’s my job (this job involves LOTS of thinking about OTHER WAYS to complete a task
B) your knowledge of engineering and fabrication falls WAY short of mine , so you would rather mock out of self protection .

Maybe you can answer WHY one would overcut with a copper handsaw into Granite or basalt, what with it being so time consuming and physical by your preferred method….
a reply to: Harte

Hundreds of reasons, the simplest being an inexperienced worker making the wrong cut.
Yet you can't bring yourself to consider other reasons.
Even though you say "this job involves LOTS of thinking about OTHER WAYS to complete a task," You can't allow yourself to even consider other possibilities. Ergo, not worth replying to.

Harte

Have you ever used a handsaw to cut something, even wood?

agreed... an overcut would have had to have been done while cutting quite fast... No one makes a mistake in slow motion without realizing it... lol

Exactly . a reply to: Akragon