Russia evacuating diplomatic staff from Ukraine

a reply to: gortex

spot-on gortex, NATO deceived Russia with deals and promises.

I remember the predictions from back in the day, that NATO will end up on Russia's doorstep... and now here we are.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: dollukka

This was a sign I was hoping I wouldn't see any time soon.

Look for interruptions in communications. When you see that - its starting.

US-UK-Israel all telling their diplomats/citizens to leave NOW, because the Biden Admin is convinced the Russians are coming.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: dollukka

I'm no defender of Tsar Putin and have watched over the years as he's flouted International laws time and again but Russia was told at the end of the Cold War that NATO had no intention of pushing Eastwards , since then NATO has pushed Eastwards to a point that they are on Russia's doorstep , if the roles were reversed I don't see NATO accepting the situation.

NATO should give Russia the security assurances it needs to avert this coming crisis , lest we all fall victim to an escalation that goes beyond anyone's control.

quoted because the truth needs to be read again and again.

It's gonna be ironic if we shut down for 2 years to save lives and as soon as we get some relief we go hot and are at war with Russia and China.

Just more brinkmanship...for now. "You cross this line, you die". Steps back. "You cross this line, you die".

Very soon someone will run out of red lines. That's when it can get a bit sticky. Putin either hopes he calls the West's bluff before he invades or hopes to call the West's bluff after.

He knows he'll now look a fool if he calls the whole thing off. He might have to create a distraction away from Ukraine.?

Any bets on a domestic Terror attack?

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: dollukka

I'm no defender of Tsar Putin and have watched over the years as he's flouted International laws time and again but Russia was told at the end of the Cold War that NATO had no intention of pushing Eastwards , since then NATO has pushed Eastwards to a point that they are on Russia's doorstep , if the roles were reversed I don't see NATO accepting the situation.

NATO should give Russia the security assurances it needs to avert this coming crisis , lest we all fall victim to an escalation that goes beyond anyone's control.

quoted because the truth needs to be read again and again.

It's gonna be ironic if we shut down for 2 years to save lives and as soon as we get some relief we go hot and are at war with Russia and China.

Who's We?. I ain't fighting no Bear, man.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: dollukka

I'm no defender of Tsar Putin and have watched over the years as he's flouted International laws time and again but Russia was told at the end of the Cold War that NATO had no intention of pushing Eastwards , since then NATO has pushed Eastwards to a point that they are on Russia's doorstep , if the roles were reversed I don't see NATO accepting the situation.

NATO should give Russia the security assurances it needs to avert this coming crisis , lest we all fall victim to an escalation that goes beyond anyone's control.

quoted because the truth needs to be read again and again.

It's gonna be ironic if we shut down for 2 years to save lives and as soon as we get some relief we go hot and are at war with Russia and China.

Who's We?. I ain't fighting no Bear, man.

Me either or a dragon for that matter, but I do have nephews and nieces, cousins, and friends in the military. Lost too many friends and classmates in Iraq and Afghanistan already.

Hell, all we do is war, and mostly it's for extremely dubious reasons.

Im 58 years old and there have only been 16 years in my life where America wasn't at war with someone, and even those years are peppered with the Iranian hostage saving failure, Reagan and the Sandinistas, and Oliver North, Grenada, and Panama. All on top of the 'COLD" war stuff during that time that was supposed to keep us safe from a future hot war with Russia and China.

And Im probably missing some other stuff, but it's obvious the MIC needs to be fed, and in the US the MIC is da baby, and whatever baby wants our leaders and politicians make sure the baby gets.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

We would have to change or waiver the rules for Ukraine to even join.

The charter has prerequisites that require a country to be stable and not have conflict before joining.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Xcalibur254

We would have to change or waiver the rules for Ukraine to even join.

The charter has prerequisites that require a country to be stable and not have conflict before joining.

"Ukraine has extremely rich and complimentary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. The country has abundant reserves of coal, iron ore, natural gas, manganese, salt, oil, graphite, sulfur, kaolin, titanium, nickel, magnesium, timber, and mercury".

Ukraine will be welcome with open arms for the above reasons.

We are screwed now ...

Biden-Putin phone call underway
President Biden's secure call with Russian President Putin started at 11:04 a.m. EST, the White House said.

a reply to: gortex

It's respecting spheres of influence.

We flipped out when Russia got cozy with Cuba... This is no different.

NATO in its directive is pretty straight forward. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization. It's for western European countries and North America. We all have aligning interests and trade. We wanted to keep those channels open and protect each other. Hell, Australia isn't even in NATO. So it's odd to me that Ukraine, a nation who's more aligned with the Slavic region to all of a sudden integrate into the west.

The timing makes it pretty apparent a bid to join would just mean we subsidize their protection from a known threat and the west picks up the bill both in money and blood. No thanks.

Sadly, at least in the US, we refuse to view this as a broader geopolitical issue and instead, like everything, try to force it in the lens of domestic politics.

The UK and the US want a war with Russia, it's as simple as that.

originally posted by: Ravenwatcher
Whats the chances Ukraine kept some of those nukes ?

...or sold some to Iran and has a secret Treaty ????? !!!!! 😵

originally posted by: Smigg
The UK and the US want a war with Russia, it's as simple as that.

That would be the silliest war of all Wars.

One thing that is a certainty, if we go hot they will clamp down like there is no tomorrow

Reports of a small explosion in Ukraine.
It doesn't sound serious at all.
Possibly something accidental.

www.rt.com...

For some reason I feel like this would not be happening if Mr Biden didn't have the difficult history he has with the place. I find that I am in a conflicted position, almost hoping "evil" Putin goes straight for Burisma. If NATO bombs anything it may just be Burisma prior to it falling to Russian troops.

Listening to Mark Levin calling Putin "evil" last night, my reaction is "evil as compared to who exactly? Biden? Pelosi? "???????????
KGB roots make him evil? GHWB was HEAD of the arguably just as evil CIA. Just think, we almost had Hillary Clinton. And we would be in this mess with her as well, I'm pretty sure one of her goals was "start s##t with Russia", and we'd have the talking heads calling Putin "Evil", all while Hillary's kill list dwarfs his.

Maybe we don't have to worry they haven't called him raycist yet.

Amazing how people can just opine that Ukraine should be given up like a morsel to Russia.

Two things wrong with that notion.

One, being "sovereign" means other countries don't get to decide their fate without ...

Two, ... a fight.

So here is the bottom line: there WILL be a war. There is no avoiding war by appeasing Putin. The Ukrainians will fight. And the responsibility for Russia's aggressive war against Ukraine will be completely on Putin and the rest of his kleptocratic oligarchy.

Cheers

a reply to: putnam6

As living in Scandinavia i was stunned when Estonia joined NATO ( didn´t see that coming and thought they were very brave doing that ). I have visited Estonia three times in my life, first one was during Soviet rule and i was shocked by the poverity and how bad things were there, i found it so depressing that i left before i planned. Independent Estonia was totally different, how they build up their economy and living standards in such a short time and Tallinn has such a long history as Hansa town and long history by their own rights. I can see why they are "fighting" to keep their freedom and their history. They had no other choice...

If you could put yourself in same situation as these people in those countries were during USSR era, i wonder what would be your choice ? Living in a fear or make something to secure your future ?

Curious. Ukraine has fifth largest population of Jews in Europe, and the Jewish Ukranian history goes back a thousand years. Israels hands were tied concerning Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe this will be a 'dog off leash' moment in that respect. Politically, why is Israel keeping so quiet?

Didn't the factions start in Ukraine when their former leader(maybe) called on all of the citizens to fight and these are the people that make up what are being called nazis and far right? The ones that fought but not directly under military leadership? So will the existence of these factions keep Israel from helping because it might create further separation in Ukraine??..(that's the best way I could put that)

Does Putin think he can gain support from the factions and oust the Jews in Ukraine?

And I do find it odd that Russia evacuated diplomatic staff..Guaranteed it was NOT out of concern for their lives. I haven't figured out the real reason Putin would do this. Its almost funny.

Putin is quoted as saying that Russia and Israel are unconditional partners in the war on terror. So why would he cause the economic devastation that will come to Israel if he infact does invade. Ukraine has the worlds best soil..black soil its called..Israel gets tons of food and steel from Ukraine, as well as Ukraine recently becoming a major player in world agriculture..If Putin does consider Israel an ally, he sure has a funny way of showing it.

Figured it out. Putin is actually going in to rid the Ukraine of the nazi element so they don't take over and screw up commerce with Israel.
Hes a hero! Just a misunderstood little guy. He's doing Israel a solid and doesn't think he needs to explain it to the rest of the world. Good for him. You go Vlad. Keep sticking it to the man…If Russia attacks Turkey from the rear..Will Greece help?

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Amazing how people can just opine that Ukraine should be given up like a morsel to Russia.

I think the debate is more along the lines of if it has anything to do with our respective countries.