Student, 20, who repeatedly raped girl, 12, he met on Tinder avoids jail

originally posted by: Ghostsdogood
a reply to: AaarghZombies


But she WAS 12, right?

Is anyone claiming she wasn't?

Then it makes no difference what the guy says.

It makes all the difference in the world.

Being an idiot who believed a girl when she said she was older is lightyears away from being a predatory sex offender who knowingly groomed an underage girl.

For one thing idiots tend not to do things like this again, while pedophiles tend to escalate and become a greater danger.

This is the difference between someone who accidentally does 30 in a 20 zone because a sign was obscured by bushes and someone who knowingly does 40 in a 20 zone because they get a thrill out of going fast.

a reply to: dandandat2

She must have had very tolerant parents, it goes a long way in not creating relationship dramas while in your teens.

Say you meet a girl in a club that is marked 21 drinking a beer and then later after going home with her you find out she is 13. Still guilty?

a reply to: dragonridr

I agree, with you in part

The boy was 20, when I was 20 girls at 16 were in my range, 15 no, however when I was 20 girls at 12 looked 12, in todays age if i was 20 I'd be finding it hard to tell the ages of young girls, they model themselves on Gaga and the likes, the boy and let's remember he is a boy, and if you say he isn't then ask yourself were you man at 20

The point is at 20 if a girl say she is 16 and you think you Coukd be lying but you go for it anyway and it turns out she is under age should you be put in prison

No, you shouldn't. The girls parents should be held accountable, and investigated to see how far that accountability goes, she learned these things from somewhere remember, and the first place to look is in the family

a reply to: Terpene

20 year old Men should not be having sex with 12 year old girls no matter whither he's slightly retarded, good-looking or sexually experienced.

This entire incident seems covered in yuk imho from the wee lassie being on "Tinder" which i find deplorable, to the 20 year old that claims he had no idea she was 12!

And then there is the judges decision which for the life of me i cant get my head around or even seems lawful.

The legal age of sexual consent for people in the UK is 16.

Having sex with a minor is considered to be statutory rape.

A crime that can carry with it a sentence of maximum life imprisonment if the victim is aged 12!

This is just wrong from all angles!

So what did they talk about that made him think she wasn't 12 over all the times the hung out? Teletubbies? The latest boy band? Her dolly collection?

a reply to: BrokenCircles

Defense attorneys always portray the suspect as a pillar of the community and the victim as the devil incarnate. That is a given.

The judge saying she had no reason to believe the girl was a victim to me is unfathomable. She was a minor. By definition of law that alone makes her a victim. Even if she acted like she was willing to take part in the act. The reason we have age of consent laws is because children don't make the best decisions. The onus is upon the adults to make up for the lack of discretion on the part of the children.

An adult can talk a child into just about anything if they try hard enough. Adults represent authority figures to children, whom are generally taught to obey their elders and respect authority. That is one of the things that make crimes like this so vile and disgusting. It is a violation of everything moral and ethical in the treatment of children.

As for the girl claiming she was raped or not, she doesn't have to. Again, she is a minor. It is not legally necessary for her to make the allegation. Her age does that for her. This is, at the very least, statutory rape.

This is a statutory offence created by section 5 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003.

(1) A person commits an offence if—

(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person with his penis, and
(b) the other person is under 13.
Any consent of the complainant is of no relevance if he or she is under the age of thirteen.

(emphasis added)

Her willingness to comply is irrelevant. Clearly the law is not being followed in this case.

a reply to: TrollMagnet

It's rape to have sex with anyone under 16 whether there's consent or not. In this case there was obviously consent and the girl done multiple things to suggest she was an adult.

If I saw a female driving I'd suggest her minimum age was 17, if I saw a female living alone in her own home I'd suspect she's 18.

Driving and living alone at 13 is actually serious in itself, she's legally under guardianship of her parents still, she can apply for a provisional licens at 15 years and 9 months old and then she can legally learn to drive. You cannot live independently legally until you are 16, lawfully you're the duty of your parents until 18. I've known 16 year olds who lived independently bit they were in care and were on a fast track program to independence. The only other option would be parents who could afford to accommodate a 16-18 year old seperately from their own house hold. She and her parents broke the law that helped create a facade of maturity of age for this girl.

I'd say it's crazy to pass judgement when ill-infomed, seems a lot of people grabbed the wrong end of the stick with this.

When I was 12 I dated a 13 year old who looked 20, it was also quite common for 13-16 year olds who looked older to go out drinking on the town at weekends, I can't imagine this trend has stopped, quite the opposite actually since kids never want to be kids. This is a rare case in that it even hit the court room.

I'll go out on a limb here and say she has a "privileged" background

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: UpThenDown

From my limited knowledge of this case it seems that the girl propositioned the man, and tricked him into a relationship by building up a convincing lie that she was much older than she really was.

It doesn't seem that he groomed her into it

His crime was being a moron. Not sure why this case went to court, usually they're not taken so far as prosecuting idiots who can't keep their pants on doesn't act as a detergent to others or protect other people.

The age of consent in the UK is 16, and it's quite common for people to start much younger as there isn't much of a religious or a social taboo against it. In many cases the police won't prosecute unless the girl alledges rape.

This was actually the crux of those grooming gang trials. Everyone knew that the girls were sleeping around under age, but it was considered to be by their own choice, so social services just let them get on with it

Well said. As for the underage grooming, I saw people I knew when I was around 18 doing exactly what you say in the manner you say it. They were both in care and nobody really cared because it was all apparently consensual. It wasn't just happening at the prolific case locations and it wasn't just "Asian men" from what I saw.

A while since I was at school but when I was it was somewhat common for girls in the last 2 years to be picked up by boys in cars. That's 18+ year olds hanging around with 14-16 year olds. Similar age groups and they intermingle, many are technically committing crimes too... In the UK the age of consent isn't the be all and end all of the legality of consent. I bet kids still smoke at school too and I'd say the teachers will let them as long as they don't take the piss.

originally posted by: Ghostsdogood

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: UpThenDown

After reading it id say the judge made the right call. The guy thought she was an adult after all she had her car and claimed to have her own place. They met on Tinder where she claimed she was an adult. He had no indications she was underage the only thing I can think he could have done was to check her ID but I don't know anyone that does that on a date.

12.


I don't give a rat's a$$ what he says.


12

If you think 12 is egregious, you would probably completely lose it to know that I have know children as young as 9 years old, do this same thing.

I have fought for years to try to get parents to keep smart phones out the hands of their children. All a child needs is a basic send and receive phone. And all internet activity should be supervised.

I don't care how responsible and mature you think your child is, erase from your mind, right now, the "My child would "never" do that", response. Your child is a child, and they are helpless against the skilled, experienced, wolf that is just outside your door waiting to devour your perfect, innocent child. That child only exists in your on mind. You will never allow yourself to see what others see. I think parents are fitted with a special pair of blinders once they have children. Those blinders seem to exaggerate all the imperfections of other people's children, while blocking out the imperfections of their own.


It is nauseating to watch children vying for attention, all over the internet, assuming a virtual persona, and trying to find acceptance and value in themselves through others.

Our society has taught children that the only things of value, is money and sex. When you provide a child with the tools to obtain these things, in their immature minds, they are going to use them. The internet is the gateway to Hell. Almost every, single case, I have had in the last four years has involved the internet in some way.

So I agree it is disgusting, reprehensible, and evil. But blame our society, the destruction of the family unit, and the destruction of a moral value system for this evil.

You can go online and you can find pictures of 30 year old women that push themselves as 12 year olds, and 9 years old that push themselves off as 20 years olds.

It is almost impossible for a person to tell the actual age of a person over the internet, and if that child is the seducer, I think the case may well have to be seen in a different light.

Where are the protections for the men that have been deceived? When it is you, your son, or grandson, sitting in that prison, you may also see it differently.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn


Demanding ID is their only protection.

That or stop looking for the youngest looking 'dates' possible.

She was 12.

The fact that an 11 year old has also been abused doesn't change the fact that this girl was 12.

originally posted by: Ghostsdogood
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn


Demanding ID is their only protection.

That or stop looking for the youngest looking 'dates' possible.

She was 12.

The fact that an 11 year old has also been abused doesn't change the fact that this girl was 12.

I think you misunderstood my post. IDs are worthless. People have been using fake IDs since before my time, and I have been around a long time.

When a child is a victim of this type of crime, is a socially and mentally impaired child, and the aggressor., the crime of sexual assault may not be present. This does not change the fact that it is a crime to have sex with an minor, but it does leave room for investigation of whether the alleged perpetrator knew that he was engaging in sex with a child.

I was not using the fact that children of even younger ages have been known to fall victim to this activity as as excuse, for what happened in this event. It was just to shed light on the fact that this occurs far more often than most people are aware.

It is a serious problem that needs to be addressed more seriously, but little is being done to stop it, because many want to do talk about it, but few want to do do anything about it. That also is a common trend in our world today.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn


I agree with that last part completely.

This is only the tip of the iceberg.

But we have to put out foot down somewhere.

I start at 12.

Zero excuses for sexually assaulting 12.

Ever.


I 'might' listen to what the rapist has to say after assaulting older children, but will NEVER care to hear why they raped a 12 year old.

Because NOTHING the rapist has to say on the matter matters at all.

So Tinder states you must be 18. I would think anyone's assumption of people they meet there are at least 18. Besides asking for a license, which can also be falsified, how would the man know? She drove also, correct? Didn't have a curfew or have to go home, etc.

This is not the usual man knowingly picks up an underage girl.

ETA: As a mother of daughters the thought of this is horrible, however because of my relationship with my girls, I know none of them would portray being older, set up a Tinder, disappear for days, etc. When we were young though, yeah I was in local bars watching bands play at 16. We didn't pick up older guys though and were usually with males our own age.

originally posted by: frogs453
So Tinder states you must be 18. I would think anyone's assumption of people they meet there are at least 18. Besides asking for a license, which can also be falsified, how would the man know? She drove also, correct? Didn't have a curfew or have to go home, etc.

This is not the usual man knowingly picks up an underage girl.

12.

Men are responsible for their actions.

Just like you are responsible for you posts here.

12.

a reply to: Ghostsdogood

I'm not a lawyer. They have access to wayyy more information than I do. I asked a question. How was the person to know. It's a horrible situation.

originally posted by: frogs453
So Tinder states you must be 18. I would think anyone's assumption of people they meet there are at least 18. Besides asking for a license, which can also be falsified, how would the man know? She drove also, correct? Didn't have a curfew or have to go home, etc.

This is not the usual man knowingly picks up an underage girl.

ETA: As a mother of daughters the thought of this is horrible, however because of my relationship with my girls, I know none of them would portray being older, set up a Tinder, disappear for days, etc. When we were young though, yeah I was in local bars watching bands play at 16. We didn't pick up older guys though and were usually with males our own age.

We always think that we "know" what our children will or will not do. Unfortunately, children do not have the ability to think as maturely as we teach, and wish for them to do. We all are guilty of using poor or faulty judgment. As adults, we are expected to know better. Children cannot always process thoughts and behavior past what their adolescent mind can handle.

I am not suggesting that you are wrong, or that you should not trust your children. I will suggest that you understand that children can, and will often use poor judgement. It is truly a rare occasion when one of the parents of my adolescent patients, have ever "not" said those time worn words. "My child would never do that."

Almost every single time, the parents utter those word, even though their child did do that.

The three times that I did not hear those words, were the three times, that the parent was the one that brought their child in, after suspecting or finding out what their child had been doing, and was trying to be proactive in stopping it, and getting them help.

In all those other cases, over seven years, were cases were the parents had been blindsided.

originally posted by: frogs453
So Tinder states you must be 18. I would think anyone's assumption of people they meet there are at least 18. Besides asking for a license, which can also be falsified, how would the man know? She drove also, correct? Didn't have a curfew or have to go home, etc.

This is not the usual man knowingly picks up an underage girl.

ETA: As a mother of daughters the thought of this is horrible, however because of my relationship with my girls, I know none of them would portray being older, set up a Tinder, disappear for days, etc. When we were young though, yeah I was in local bars watching bands play at 16. We didn't pick up older guys though and were usually with males our own age.

The original article said she lived in a car but made no mention of driving it. As for checking her ID, a bartender who gets fooled by a fake ID is still responsible for serving alcohol to a minor. The law in London says if the girl in under 13 it doesn't matter if she lied, or willingly participated. She is 12 years old. Children do dumb things and lie about their age. That is why it is up to the adult to make the right decisions. I think it is also highly suspect that the perpetrator in this case was intentionally looking for "barely legal" age girls. I believe in innocent until proven guilty, but by London law, this guy is guilty.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
The original article said she lived in a car but made no mention of driving it.

It does not say that, it says that the guy was living in his car.

originally posted by: frogs453
a reply to: Ghostsdogood

I'm not a lawyer. They have access to wayyy more information than I do. I asked a question. How was the person to know. It's a horrible situation.

By asking for ID.