What was the purpose of creation?

I don't have an answer. I don't even think we know the right questons to ask. We have the wrong perspective.

I can tell you however that I have had some truly peaceful moments in my life. I hold on to those dearly. I live to quiet that voice that never shuts up. Some years the voice is quiet, some years it is louder. Finding peace in moments of simple action and non action is my reason of living.

a reply to: TerraLiga

What I like to focus on is 'why?'.

Terra,
Why do we create?
Not trying to be glib, it is a serious question.
Why do humans create things?
I am not speaking of procreation. I mean our drive/need to invent, to produce and create new things?
I think we may be like God in that way.
Quad

a reply to: TerraLiga

My assumption is that life cannot exist in the spiritual or higher realms without first existing or being born into the physical, but I may be wrong.

a reply to: Raggedyman

My point is that God can't be all loving, as some describe, based on many of his rules, regulations, and actions. Especially with some of that Old Testament stuff. That is my opinion.

originally posted by: TerraLiga
We've had several topics on specific subjects on the biology and chemistry of life, but not many on the biggest question.

So, let's assume creation happened. The 'when' question is not important for this topic, nor 'how'. What I like to focus on is 'why?'. What prompted whichever god it was to get up from its comfy but slightly threadbare wingback chair in the ether and decide to go create a universe and all the life in it.

Ultimately, what purpose do we serve?

First off, why ask the question in such a condescending way? It always amazes me that people who claim not to believe in God always try to belittle God they say doesn't exist. So you couldn't just simply ask the question, you had to say:

What prompted whichever god it was to get up from its comfy but slightly threadbare wingback chair in the ether and decide to go create a universe and all the life in it.

Now, to the question.

There's been some good answers but the real answer is:

WE DON'T KNOW.

The Bible tells us, there's no searching of His Understanding. So how can we humans with limited knowledge and understanding know why God who's outside of space and time did something or even if the question why even makes sense in this context.

The Bible says:

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

In the book of Job chapter 38 it says:

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

So how can humans with our limited wisdom, knowledge and understanding know why or even if there's a why to why God who's outside of space and time Created us?

God's Love is limitless and we love within limits.

Let me ask you a question. Do you think human knowledge, understanding and wisdom is the sum of all knowledge, wisdom and understanding in the universe? If not, why can't you believe in God?

The fact is, we don't even fully understand the planets in our own backyard but we're going to limit and question God as to why He Created us as if we can understand or comprehend why if there's even a why?

I also think everyone believes there's a God. Sadly, many people use their carnal minds to supress their spiritual nature. The Bible says this:

Romans 1:20 “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”

So, you need to ask yourself, why do you ignore and supress your spiritual nature?

When your spritual mind questions the illogical, why do you supress those questions with your carnal mind?

The Bible say, many are called but few are chosen. Why are you ignoring the call of your spiritual nature when your spiritual mind asks questions about evolution and atheism and your non belief?

On that day, you will not be able to lie to God. You can lie to yourself but you will not be able to say you didn't know God exists because you do. You made the choice to deny and supress your spiritual nature.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: incoserv

See the Old Testament for examples of this loving Godhead you describe.

I do. Often.

I also see example of the same living God as a zealously righteous hater of wickedness and sin and a destructive force against it.

If you saw me with my children, you would see a loving father. If someone tried to violate my daughter, you would see another side of this living father that you might have not imagined existed. That doesn't eradicate the living father; as a matter of fact, it reinforces it.

God. Hates. Wickedness.

And he judges it accordingly.

a reply to: incoserv

And I get that, but you're a human, not a deity. Let alone a deity that is supposedly all loving, forgiving, and merciful. I too would feel vengeful if someone violated the ones I love. Does that vengeance make it okay? Is wrath acceptable then? What happened to turn the other cheek? Where did the love and forgiveness go, out the window? Zealous righteous hater of wickedness... That is understandable. But it doesn't jive. The argument has been made that the genocides, commandments etc. of the Old Testament are acceptable, because God can see into the heart of a man and know if they are truly wicked. Forces of corruption. So thus, they deserved it. On the other hand this God is all powerful and could have just cut out wickedness altogether. Oh but, then that would violate free will? So which is it? He is clearly a do as I say, not as I do type of guy. One who, as the Bible shows, has no issues with manipulating free will, speaking lies through prophets, hardening the hearts of those he deems unworthy...

You're just a person who would kick some ass or more, if you and yours were to be violated. You have no omniscience or omnipotence. You are not all loving, all forgiving, or merciful. A god that supposedly is though, is doing a great job at showing very human emotions. I wonder why that is?

It appears you are dragging the 'god works in mysterious ways' catch-all front and centre.

If god is eternal, I assume it was perfectly content for the vast majority of its existence, so why 14.7Bn years ago did it start this project?

After creating our universe, why did this god build it so it is continually expanding? If humanity lived indefinitely we couldn't see or explore any more than an infinitesimally small portion of it. What is the rest of it for? Within this universe, why create a planet like 55 Cancri e or HD 106906 b? In this truly vast expanse, why choose only one planet for complex life?

Creation is more about just human beings.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
The argument has been made that the genocides, commandments etc. of the Old Testament are acceptable, because God can see into the heart of a man and know if they are truly wicked.

Then why not do something about the people who do wicked things in the name of their god? Surely their heart betrays their motives and, metaphorically speaking, standing right next to their god it should be able to spot their wicked hearts, no?

a reply to: incoserv

My only point here is that actions speak louder than words. And theologians the world over will make a variety of arguments as to why God's character is divine, and beyond our understanding. I wouldn't expect to be able to fully comprehend the mind of such an entity. However, I can better understand the minds of men and woman. To me, it seems like a lot of mental gymnastics (Stockholm syndrome) are being exercised in trying to validate the character of God. Paint him in a perfect light. Who are we to judge and understand God, eh bud? But as I said, actions speak louder than words. And I'm not going to just accept double standards as part of some divine plan (or is there a plan - rhetorical)?

Sounds more like an abusive relationship, hence my first post in this thread.

Who are you to say that the hypothetical person that violates your daughter knows something you don't? Something deeper. Maybe God spoke to them? Maybe she deserved it, perhaps it was fate? God works in mysterious ways. What could she have done to deserve something horrendous? Who knows. But God would. So, just like in the OT when he told Moses to have his armies take the wives of fallen enemy soldiers, and their virgin daughters as their wives, it wasn't a violation. It was righteous. Strikes a nerve? What if in your relationship with God, he told you to sacrifice her? What then? Would you? It's not like he hasn't done that before. Would you prepare an alter in hopes he'd call it off at the last minute?

Would he call it off? I mean, he sacrificed his own son, after all.

a reply to: TerraLiga

Assumption: Creation is defined as "being here today".

Sometimes I think the purpose of creation is no more than to experience the pleasure of existence. Like, creation was never meant to be as big of a deal as we think it is when we observe it today, and maybe it isn't as big of a deal as we observe it to be.

Regardless of whether it's a big deal, I think the opposite of creation, being non-creation, is boring, like REALLY boring; just - dead in comparison. The flare of enthusiasm that channels through someone's veins while alive and taking a breath is insurmountable, let alone all the other experiences only those alive in creation are privy to.

So, that could be at least one of the reasons for creation.

But as far as what purpose we serve, see the signature line below.

a reply to: TerraLiga

If I was a divine being with the power to create and destroy, quite frankly, I would run experiments. A little love here, a little chaos there. Tests and achievements. Judgement. Not just on the evil, but on everyone. For anything and everything. For good or ill. Get to like some of the cast of my creations, dislike others. I'd probably want them to love me, even though I wouldn't need or care about their love. I'd just want to see what I could get them to do with what I gave them. Like a big sandbox game, or grand simulation.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

That is interesting - the sandbox universe.

If I were a god, where time is irrelevant, I would start several universes to see what happened in each. No interference, no influence, no favouritism.

If a deity did start this universe it has had no further influence in it. It doesn't protect its 'brand', it allows the most vile and evil to walk freely among the virtuous, innocence means nothing at all to this all-powerful god. Death and destruction is positively encouraged in this world and others.

There is no love in this god, just indifference and wilful impotence.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: Raggedyman

My point is that God can't be all loving, as some describe, based on many of his rules, regulations, and actions. Especially with some of that Old Testament stuff. That is my opinion.

God offered redemption/forgiveness for those who choose and try and be a better person, it’s an open invitation
Justice is love

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: TerraLiga

If I was a divine being with the power to create and destroy, quite frankly, I would run experiments. A little love here, a little chaos there. Tests and achievements. Judgement. Not just on the evil, but on everyone. For anything and everything. For good or ill. Get to like some of the cast of my creations, dislike others. I'd probably want them to love me, even though I wouldn't need or care about their love. I'd just want to see what I could get them to do with what I gave them. Like a big sandbox game, or grand simulation.

But what you described is not love, it’s childish control
Humans are created in God’s image, freewill, choice, equal almost,

It’s not a simulation, real souls and spirit, real people are suffering, real people who are loved and cared for

God only has one rule for Christ followers, love others

a reply to: Raggedyman

My point has nothing to do with what the peons do.

It's about management.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Never claimed that if I was the source of all creation, that I would be all loving.

But what you described is not love, it’s childish control
Humans are created in God’s image, freewill, choice, equal almost,

So, God.

To know love and serve God

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Wasn’t suggesting you were wrong in your game
Just that God has a greater plan than a game as relating to why we were created

Management should be individual, responsibility

originally posted by: colonel655
To know love and serve God

So how do we serve God
Some say it’s to worship God but

Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.
14 Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals
I hate with all my being.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening.
Your hands are full of blood!
16 Wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds out of my sight;
stop doing wrong.
17 Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.[a]
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
plead the case of the widow

God says it’s about loving others

A sect of hinduism, I think it is, has this idea we’re all a piece of one god who is dreaming and wanted to piece himself out and love all the wonderful things this mind and the universe had to offer. It was pleasurable yet boring so there was a second age the following night and he wanted to live everything good and bad and he did so every life every experience but it was still boring so the next night which is the third age, our age, he went to sleep and wanted to live every experience good and bad but this time, he willed himself to also forget that he was just dreaming. So that’s we. Souls of the divine without the knowledge of who we really are. Kinda beautiful if you ask me.