Should I say something? Dogs

originally posted by: Peeple
That must be this inflation I keep hearing so much about. For a drink I should get more than that

That's just the appetizer.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Peeple
No it's more that I get along with everybody...

LOL. I'm a people person too!!!!!

and I just spit my sip of water with my Tylenol in it on the floor...that's an ATS HOF nominee quote at the very least.

a reply to: Peeple

Usually the problem is the owner, not the Dog. Scratch the idea about keeping things harmonious when obviously they already aren't.

Maybe broach the problem first with a small gift for the Dog?
That way it at least reinforces the idea you genuinely like the Dog & makes it harder for the owner to deflect into getting overprotective instead of hearing you.

Have the same problem when visiting a family member.
Twice a day is a neighborhood group dog walk beginning at family members home. At least three owners have major behavioral issues with their pups. Who are large adult dogs.
It's been my experience saying anything is absolutely pointless since to address the problem they have to look at themselves and why they think their dogs knocking them, other people, tables over or insane barking is acceptable behavior. The owners constant yelling for them to behave is just as obnoxious.

Sigh...It's taken all my self restraint to not just grab up the leashes and pull a "Cesar Milan Pack Walk" to prove it's the owner, not the dog! One of these owners is actually a dog trainer. My family member is a bit snarky with trying to keep me from injecting any common sense into these encounters. But eventually I'm gonna snap.

originally posted by: putnam6
and I just spit my sip of water with my Tylenol in it on the floor...that's an ATS HOF nominee quote at the very least.

Not believable, huh?

a reply to: Caver78
I think it comes down to a misunderstanding and humanizing of the dog.

A dog needs an alpha dog, a pack leader. If that dog isn't put in it's place, as cruel and inhuman (the irony) it sounds, it will challenge that pack leader position. Dog signals are very subtle.

Like, a dog that sniffs on someones butt all of the sudden and directly, that's a huge red flag in two ways:

One, the dog has no restraints and is not properly socialized. Because in dog world, if a dog does that out of the blue and has not done "the dance" before, the other dog will feel disrespected and lash back. It's a domination thing who is first doing this.

So a dog that has no restraint in that matter, was never put in it's place. And how you do it is you show them who's boss. That means, in early pub life, if the dog does something absolutely disrespecting in a domination kind of way, the owner needs to react in that second and turn the dog on it's back and get over it.

If the dog starts, among the common known signs like the tail curled in, to lick it's mouth and lowers the ears, it's a sign that the dog got the message. This behavior is called pacifying. The fine line is to catch the moment it happens, because if the punishment comes too late, the dog does not connect it with the false behavior.

If the dog bites you, you were too late, because it's done in puppy life, when the full bite reflex isn't there. Dog puppies have a bite reflex that will keep it down for playing and testing. It might be the puppy "knibbles" on the arm and that will hurt a lot, but won't be bloody. So it's crucial to do this in early stage and then keep asserting dominance.

In animal kingdom, punishment is delivered instantly. That all above does not mean a dog can not be a loved family member. But the owner needs to be just that, the owner and there has to be dominance.

Kind of like Cesar Milan, who I only have to look at and see the dominance he can assert. Dogs are pack animals and most dogs will accept the subordination, as long as their needs are covered. There is a Rottweiler that just doesn't like me, from the neighbors. It will growl and flash teeth at me behind the fence. One day I went into my garage and there it was. Was up to something and I opened the door, the dog got afraid and gnarled at me.

I would be lying if my heart rate didn't double that moment. If I'd run, the hunting drive would kick in and Rottweilers are ass cheek biters anyways... So instead I started to scream, look stern and got myself a shovel and banged it on the tiles in front of it. I saw it goes back so I followed through and let it scramble around the car out of the garage.

That dog learned that day that I am the more dominant one and that I will, despite what it thought, go into offensive. It barked only one more time behind the fence and I screamed "AUS" ("out" or "let go") and that was it. Since then, it will make a wide circle around me, with tail between the legs, pacifying behavior.

It will try the same # with a different human though, I am pretty sure.

a reply to: Peeple
First, I know who the guy is and he has a lot of truth to share, but I am not a "Cesar Milan folk".

Turning a dog on it's back isn't getting extreme physical, if you observe dogs playing, this happens all the time.

All that does is show you're a person who'd rule by fear and surpression.

You got it wrong. I grew up with dogs, owned a Malinois and trained with her through several layers. I never hit her or anything, the only thing I did was assert dominance. And that isn't a cruel act, it's normal in the dog world.

What it is is simply holding the dog down until it accepts the position, NOT beating it or anything. Not ruling with fear. Not out of the blue. A typical dog will most of the times accept you as alpha without it. I only showed the way to do it if that does not happen.

Dogs are pack animals. Period. And they need an alpha dog. Just because the concept of domination is strange to you, it doesn't mean I am wrong or cruel or whatever you think I am. Your romantic thoughts and humanizing of dogs isn't doing them a favor.

My god... Contrary to your aversion to this, what you call "healthy family dog" is often an insecure ticking time bomb. Don't be silly.

That made you horny I bet seeing that dog afraid of you. That's just #ed up.

Excuse me? That you even connect hornyness with anything dog like is the #ed up thing here. There is no joy or glee doing this, it is a necessary thing and ends with the establishing. After that this isn't necessary if you guide your dog.

Currently, YOU are guided by your dog, that's why you're here asking for advice. And frankly, real honest... You come here, onto a conspiracy board to ask for advice about human and dog behavior, maybe your lack of knowledge and false ideas are the reason for you even having to ask?

But suddenly you know it all better...mhm. So let's see... I answered your sick and twisted "horny" comment, so now I am out of here.

Seriously...and obviously you can't handle dogs correctly but you think you got it all.. Why are you asking for help then?


Something I skipped and need to clarify

There's no such thing as punishment in the animal kingdom. There's a response, an immediate reaction. But the concept of punishment is way too complicated for even the smartest animal.

Yes, that's why I wrote it has to happen instantly. You can semantic all day if it's punishment or reaction, the dog knows if you do it instantly what's wrong.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

Are you #ing kidding me? I didn't ask for advice with my dog, but if or how I should talk with other dog owners.

Dominance equals violence. That's just a fact. That's the same abuse as bullying. Most people get off on their power trip. That's just another fact.
And entirely unnecessary.
I can call my dog when she's in hot pursuit of a bird or whatever and she'll turn instantly. I have to send her to go play with other dogs. I certainly don't need your advice in that regards thank you.
Especially not if it involves punishment and rolling her on her back. Sorry that seems extremely perverse to me.

a reply to: Peeple

Dominance does not equal violence.

Especially not if it involves punishment and rolling her on her back. Sorry that seems extremely perverse to me.

Of course it does to you because you have no clues about dogs. Let me explain you very slowly:

A dog on it's back, or a dog laying on it's back is a sign of submission, not all the time but it is one of the signs

It is not something sexual. That's in YOUR head

That's #ing twisted what you think but shows you have no idea.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

Yeah if they do it on their own and pee themselves a little it is.
If you tackle them down and hold them in a headlock it's abuse.

I definitely know more than you. You know the new research and not disproven bull# from 70 years ago.

a reply to: Peeple

"Headlock"

There is no headlock, you have no idea what you are talking about.

You just accused me of being into sodomy, are you aware of that? Yeah ciao..

Okay that's enough.

Cesar Milan seems to be a bit of a lightening rod.
However he's trying to teach absolute idiots how to handle their animals, no small feat! To his credit he uses whatever works to get thru to the owners no matter how "wtf??" we might think it is while watching.

I spent an entire summer walking our big dog cause while he was convinced he was smarter & knew better than me his habit of dragging people on their faces down the street for "walkies" didn't fly. ENTIRE SUMMER tied to him with a rope so every single time he charged off I could hit the dirt on my butt & be his unmovable boulder. Everyday.

By the end of August he finally got the point humans have one speed. Theirs, and his place was to pup alongside or behind and just enjoy the damn walk. No yelling, no drama, just waited for him to "get it". By year two (he'd been a abandoned adult dog) I accidentally "reverted" at home and used hand signals with him like I did at work around machinery & co-workers. God love him he grasped it FAST and did an absolute stellar imitation of the UK sheep-herding dogs at trials. Just quiet communication as needed. After the learning curve he was overjoyed to get his new collar and leash. He also thought his choke chain was jewelry and wore it prancing. Because of that had to get the other two dogs one. Jewelry for everybody!!!
BTW we never needed to use them.

It's not always a dominance thing with pack leaders. It's also making sure in any situation your dog is convinced YOU can deal with it so they don't need to step in. If you don't give them a job, they'll pick their own.

a reply to: Caver78

Yeah that comes down to dominance again, you don't need to be over dominant if the dog get's it. If the dog feels it you can deal with situations, it knows because you can deal with it too. From experience.

With dominance I do not mean hitting or being rude or heartless, cold or brutal. One can be dominant without screaming or violence. The sweetest words expressed in the right way assert more dominance than screaming.

But a dog does not understand words, it can only go by the sound of the words. With humans that's different.

a reply to: Caver78

I'm totally fine with that. Patience and consistency. And after you got him over that bump you gave him opportunity to show off how smart he is.

It's also making sure in any situation your dog is convinced YOU can deal with it so they don't need to step in. If you don't give them a job, they'll pick their own.

I love it


But that's really a far cry from dominance and punishment. And as I said the guy himself knows what he's doing. It's just people who watch it and think that makes them experts, but are lacking the empathy and miss the nuances, that annoy me.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

Is that before or after you throw'em on their back and break their spirit into fearful submission?

OK, people, that will be quite enough of this nonsense.

If you can't discuss the issue without resorting to disgusting accusations, then perhaps you need to move on to a differing one.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

Is that before or after you throw'em on their back and break their spirit into fearful submission?

You are having a misunderstanding of what "dominating" a dog is.
It's leadership essentially. Not abuse. Abuse breaks a dogs respect towards humans and makes them fearful.

Always leading while walking and always leading through doorways are the main training behaviors here.
Leading down stairs is also a big one, so people don't get knocked down them.
"Leading" as in physically walking in front of.
Training the dog to wait before tasks...eating, going outside, treats etc...

a reply to: Mandroid7

I understood perfectly fine what she said.

And how you do it is you show them who's boss. That means, in early pub life, if the dog does something absolutely disrespecting in a domination kind of way, the owner needs to react in that second and turn the dog on it's back and get over it. ..
What it is is simply holding the dog down until it accepts the position,

It was all just talk about submission and punishment. Physically. That's abuse.
Because especially with a puppy it works perfectly fine if you just clap or make a sharp 'ba-bap'
I don't need to show who's boss in a wrestling match. I am the human it is the dog.
Period.