Don't use Bitcoin... or any crypto that relies on mining, actually.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: tanstaafl

Do you accept payments from Bill Gates?

I would if I had something he wanted and he offered me cash for it - but that is totally irrelevant to my response to your point...

No? There you go. The topic is therefore different.

No, actually, it is the very essence of your point.

You claimed that if 'China' - aka, some unnamed person or group of people - has more bitcoin than me, that they 'have purchasing powers over me', just by virtue of their having more bitcoin than me.

All I did was provide an example that illustrates just how ridiculous your assertion is.

a reply to: tanstaafl

So what? Or are you suggesting that it was the CCP that mined them? It wasn't, it was private miners, and as proof, if all of these mining operations were CCP owned/operated, they would not be shutting them all down.

Why would they shut them down ?
The Chinese government , by law , takes at least 51% of all business.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein

And then?...

Is that all?...

Apologies, Here is a clearer example to start with.

The last word ...
Mining is foolishness for the average person .

originally posted by: strongfp
The real value in crypto is that is uses Blockchain technology, not the crypto itself. Eventually the world needs to agree upon a gold like standard or something like the USD, but even that will become centralized one day, that's just how value or currencies and their placeholders work.

It's already in the process, initially FedCoin will be required via FedPay if you want to transact with the United States Federal Government in any capacity. Eventually it will be rolled out into the public sector.

originally posted by: tanstaafl
You claimed that if 'China' - aka, some unnamed person or group of people - has more bitcoin than me, that they 'have purchasing powers over me', just by virtue of their having more bitcoin than me.

No, I claimed that you are essentially executing work to obtain bitcoin. It's called mining, or other tasks. Since no one can ever earn more than 35% of all bitcoin, then the entity that does have more bitcoins than yo will have more power than you. This could translate to serious political implications. One entity is always poor. The other is always rich.

a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein

How does that deny my point?

It even actually confirms it. The more he mines, the more he essentially gains purchasing power. He makes 186 bucks a day.

Now think about what happened over in China.

As a collective entity, China just made 600 trillions using this strategy but on steroids.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: tanstaafl

Inflation only applies to a currency ...

Really? You're going to jump in now and not let swanne have all of the fun displaying their ignorance to the world?

Ok, lets go...

Bitcoin isn't a currency.

Correct - although it can be used in the same way that currencies are used between consenting adults.

It's a place holder for a wide variety of currencies,

No. It is an asset. It is digital property - property whose valueis measured in terms of different currencies, just like any other asset (building, land, house, car, etc).

which means those currencies can fluctuate and bloat the 'value' of a Bitcoin.

No, what it means is, when those other currencies are inflated - and all nations currencies are being inflated all the time, as has been done since the dawn of the concept of money - and most importantly, this is the problem that bitcoin was designed and is perfectly suited to solve, once and for all.

But, just like gold, it only has value because people want it.

Just like gold, just like anything else, yes...

If one day Bitcoins go out of fashion and people start using, I don't know tulips as a place holder for their money, Bitcoin crashes, a tulip is now worth more than one Bitcoin.

Yes, this is true, and the same goes for gold, or USDs, or anything else.

So... freaking... what?

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: tanstaafl

Why would they shut them down ?
The Chinese government , by law , takes at least 51% of all business.

Because they cannot control them. How do they know who mines what?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: strongfp
The real value in crypto is that is uses Blockchain technology, not the crypto itself. Eventually the world needs to agree upon a gold like standard or something like the USD, but even that will become centralized one day, that's just how value or currencies and their placeholders work.

It's already in the process, initially FedCoin will be required via FedPay if you want to transact with the United States Federal Government in any capacity. Eventually it will be rolled out into the public sector.

You have any links to info on the FedCoin?

I believe you, and have heard similar rumors about it, just wondering if you have different sources than I do about it.

originally posted by: swanne
in reply to: tanstaafl

No, I claimed that you are essentially executing work to obtain bitcoin.

You said, and I quote:

"The moment you begin accepting Bitcoin, Ethereum, or any "crypto" that can be mined, as a form of payment, then you will be giving China tremendous purchasing power over you."

This could translate to serious political implications. One entity is always poor. The other is always rich.

You mean... like things are now?

Rotflmao!!!

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
in reply to: strongfp

It's already in the process, initially FedCoin will be required via FedPay if you want to transact with the United States Federal Government in any capacity. Eventually it will be rolled out into the public sector.

Yes, and this will be a great thing for bitcoin.

a reply to: tanstaafl

No. It is an asset. It is digital property - property whose valueis measured in terms of different currencies, just like any other asset (building, land, house, car, etc).

Place holder and asset mean the same thing...

No, what it means is, when those other currencies are inflated - and all nations currencies are being inflated all the time, as has been done since the dawn of the concept of money - and most importantly, this is the problem that bitcoin was designed and is perfectly suited to solve, once and for all.

If the USD inflates, the Canadian dollar doesn't inflate with it. That's not how currencies work.
Canada and the US both have completely separate central banks and interest rates, both tend to follow each other for stability, but they aren't tied to each other's economic GPD growth. Same goes with say Mexico or China.

The USD only tends to be a standard at which assets and resources and such are pinned in 'value', because it is the worlds reserve currency, it's worth more than gold and bitcoin as it stands, because it's backed by the 'petro dollar'.

Money has never been this linear history, human societies have used everything from sticks, sea shells, leather tokens, etc. as currency but what I think you're thinking of is how kings and world leaders of nations and empires etc, have tried their best to centralize a 'standard' currency to keep them in power and to keep people from making their own currencies all over the kingdom or what ever. The Mormons are a prime example and they are basically one of the main factors why the Green back was put into circulation.

Yes, this is true, and the same goes for gold, or USDs, or anything else.

So... freaking... what?

Bubble goes pop?

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: swanne
in reply to: tanstaafl

No, I claimed that you are essentially executing work to obtain bitcoin.

You said, and I quote:

"The moment you begin accepting Bitcoin, Ethereum, or any "crypto" that can be mined, as a form of payment, then you will be giving China tremendous purchasing power over you."

Rotflmao!!!

Yes, because when you do, then folks in China do not even need to bother converting Bitcoin into any currency any longer - they can just straight up buy you butt off. 600 trillions worth of any nation's assets. Of any companies. Of any politicians.

Do you realise how much money that is? How even the richest shadow Bank, BlackRock in the USA can barely compare?

a reply to: swanne

yeah, but China is just the cheap energy hut that we're using.

and the whole bitcoin is mined and transferred. One day it will dry up and all bitcoins will be here. and it won't matter.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

So the game is already lost for the whole "it's decentralized" crowed? That was fast.

originally posted by: swanne
... then you will be giving China tremendous purchasing power over you... again.

I'm just saying. We need to stick to currencies that cannot be mined, only earned.

I don't think that using Federal Reserve / Central Bank issues currencies is any better in terms of whom we give power to. Central Banks are just as nefarious as the CCP; maybe moreso. At any rate, they're all in bed together, but we're the ones getting screwed.

As to sticking to "currencies that can only be earned," good luck with that. Much income generated in USD is not earned; i e., investments, playing the market with hedge funds and such. That kind of income is not "earned," and really isn't so different from mining from an ethical point of view. Maybe it's worse.

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein
One day it will dry up and all bitcoins will be here. and it won't matter.

Why won't it matter? Because we'll all be speaking Mandarin?

originally posted by: incoserv

originally posted by: swanne
... then you will be giving China tremendous purchasing power over you... again.

I'm just saying. We need to stick to currencies that cannot be mined, only earned.

I don't think that using Federal Reserve / Central Bank issues currencies is any better in terms of whom we give power to. Central Banks are just as nefarious as the CCP; maybe moreso. At any rate, they're all in bed together, but we're the ones getting screwed.

However the amount of funds available is drastically different.

BlackRock, for instance, has a net AUM of 9 trillions.

Bitcoin is giving China, as a group, 600 trillions.

originally posted by: swanne

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein
One day it will dry up and all bitcoins will be here. and it won't matter.

Why won't it matter? Because we'll all be speaking Mandarin?

You do understand that the number of Bitcoins that can be mined is finite?