Don't use Bitcoin... or any crypto that relies on mining, actually.

I keep seeing people jumping into the bandwagon.

At first I myself thought it was a good idea. Decentralised, a value that keeps rising (and therefore promises a return), etc. But then I realised something after coming across this bit of news:

China has intensified its stranglehold on cryptocurrency mining and trade. China mined two-thirds of the world's bitcoins in 2020; in other words, until last year, Chinese bitcoin mining accounted for around 65 percent of global mining.

economictimes.indiatimes.com...

It's not just that source, other sources are confirming the "deed". China mined two-third of all Bitcoins ever.



Do you realise what this means?

The moment you begin accepting Bitcoin, Ethereum, or any "crypto" that can be mined, as a form of payment, then you will be giving China tremendous purchasing power over you... again.

I'm just saying. We need to stick to currencies that cannot be mined, only earned.

a reply to: swanne

While there's Gold in them thar hills people are going to mine it regardless of political considerations , I long for the day the Gold rush comes to an end but I doubt it will.

a reply to: swanne

Isn't the very foundation of crypto-currency the act of "work" or mining?

How else can it be derived?

a reply to: gortex

True. However it is a common misconception that "economy" depends on money.

You can actually form a currency without any gold. In fact you can form an economy without any currency.

The currency merely serves as a way to establish a trading standard value. It's easier to carry a token than to carry Gina's dozens of apple pies. However that token, that "currency", is not necessary for the economical aspect of a society; and in fact it can take any shape, and be backed on anything, not just gold.

a reply to: swanne

Meh. They can spend the resources on mining them all they want. Works for me. Once I get them, they’ll never get them back so it doesn’t really matter who does the mining. It’s like gold. Once it’s mined and in your hands. Who cares who mined it?

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Crypto currency is new to me.

However I do believe that there are digital currencies that can be earned, as opposed to mined. In fact I know there are, since we are using one ourselves over at the Federation of Pangaea society.

If one subscribes to a currency that can be "mined" (computer sense of the word), then one has to realize that a certain foreign superpower is highly capable of mining, more than all others, and in the end it will only benefit that foreign superpower.

a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein

This is only half of the truth. Although they "can't" take it away from you (yet), if you begin accepting Bitcoin payments, then essentially they have purchasing power over you.

This means they can make you work in exchange of bitcoins, as an example. Remember when you had to solve CAPTCHA to get satoshi? This is a form of work. The CAPTCHA you solved go into a database and the solutions you provided are used to bypass security when hackers launch attacks on various infrastructures.

originally posted by: swanne
It's not just that source, other sources are confirming the "deed". China mined two-third of all Bitcoins ever.

So what? Or are you suggesting that it was the CCP that mined them? It wasn't, it was private miners, and as proof, if all of these mining operations were CCP owned/operated, they would not be shutting them all down.

From your own source, one of the largest (Bit Digital) was a New York based firm that was simply taking advantage of the cheap hydro electricity in China from all of their crappy dams.

Do you realise what this means?

The moment you begin accepting Bitcoin, Ethereum, or any "crypto" that can be mined, as a form of payment, then you will be giving China tremendous purchasing power over you... again.

There is a lot wrong in that comment.

First, bitcoin is not a currency, and is there are two characteristics that make it very different from any of the other #-coins that like to call themselves 'crypto currencies' but aren't..

Bitcoin is a crypto asset. It is property. So says the IRS and every other government regulator/wonk that has discussed this, including/especially in the recent Congressional hearings about it.

All of the others are considered securities.

This is an incredibly important distinction that you really have to grok completely before you can speak intelligently about the subject.

I'm just saying. We need to stick to currencies that cannot be mined, only earned.

I will and am.

Bitcoin will not be banned, because it is not a threat to any country's monetary sovereignty, because it is not a currency, and doesn't want to be a currency.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: gortex

You can actually form a currency without any gold.

True.

In fact you can form an economy without any currency.

False. Ridiculously, unbelievably false, and displays a remarkable level of ignorance.

The currency merely serves as a way to establish a trading standard value. It's easier to carry a token than to carry Gina's dozens of apple pies.

True again.

However that token, that "currency", is not necessary for the economical aspect of a society;

It is if you want said economy/society to be anything other than tiny islands of bartering communities.

and in fact it can take any shape, and be backed on anything, not just gold.

True... like Bitcoin, which is backed by both POW (proof of work) and the extraordinary and sophisticated blockchain network that is poised to revolutionize the worlds economy in ways most cannot even begin to imagine.

a reply to: tanstaafl

You are missing the entire point.

The point is, if you begin accepting Bitcoin payments, then the entities that have larger mining equipment than yours will always have purchasing powers over you.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

True... like Bitcoin, which is backed by both POW (proof of work) and the extraordinary and sophisticated blockchain network that is poised to revolutionize the worlds economy in ways most cannot even begin to imagine.

This sounds like you swallowed a marketing ad.

The idea itself is somewhat good, but the current implementation of the cryptocurrencies I describe are a very, very bad idea on the long run. You are quite simply giving up on your capacity to be truly economically independent. You are instead falling into yet another pyramidal system.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Crypto currency is new to me.

Obliviously...

If one subscribes to a currency that can be "mined" (computer sense of the word), then one has to realize that a certain foreign superpower is highly capable of mining, more than all others, and in the end it will only benefit that foreign superpower.

And again, if they were, they wouldn't be banning them.

As to the silly 'Tradit' crypto you referenced for your fictional society, it is pegged to the USD, which is in freefall right now, so good luck with that.

While it’s true in 2020 most miners were in China. A lot of those operations have moved to the US after Chinas crackdown.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: tanstaafl

You are missing the entire point.

No... I'm not. You are.

The point is, if you begin accepting Bitcoin payments,

I'm not, but who cares if someone does? Most companies will never do this, they will just use payment processors that do the converting at the point of sale (like Square and Paypal are working on doing now).

Again - while a country could conceivably make bitcoin its official currency, it it is not a currency now (only a nation could do this), and it will likely never happen, at least not in the foreseeable future.

then the entities that have larger mining equipment than yours will always have purchasing powers over you.

In what way?

In what way does Bill Gates 'have purchasing powers over me' right now, seeing as we both use fiat USD, and he has craptons more than me?

originally posted by: tanstaafl

As to the silly 'Tradit' crypto you referenced for your fictional society, it is pegged to the USD, which is in freefall right now, so good luck with that.

It's pegged to the USD average 2020 value. So future ups and downs are irrelevant.

The whole point I'm trying to make is, be careful with currencies that require mining, because on the long term, this only increases other entities' purchasing power over you; it does not actually empower you.

originally posted by: tanstaafl
In what way does Bill Gates 'have purchasing powers over me' right now, seeing as we both use fiat USD, and he has craptons more than me?

Would you say that the current economical system in the US is optimal?

originally posted by: swanne
in reply to: tanstaafl

The idea itself is somewhat good,

Said the guy who knows nothing about bitcoin.

but the current implementation of the cryptocurrencies I describe

Again - bitcoin is nothing like any of the others.

You are instead falling into yet another pyramidal system.

Nopey dopey. Bitcoin is forever limited to 21 million coins. Forever. It cannot be inflated. Ever.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein

This is only half of the truth. Although they "can't" take it away from you (yet), if you begin accepting Bitcoin payments, then essentially they have purchasing power over you.

This means they can make you work in exchange of bitcoins, as an example. Remember when you had to solve CAPTCHA to get satoshi? This is a form of work. The CAPTCHA you solved go into a database and the solutions you provided are used to bypass security when hackers launch attacks on various infrastructures.

yeah, but bitcoin payments. Already mined bitcoins. that someone's paying me with. makes no difference who mined it or what it cost them. the value at the time of payment is the value. simple.
Also, we will soon have mined all of the bitcoins in the world. Then what? The value goes up even more!

I don't see your point.

The only reason 'people' mine crypto in China is because they have cheap energy. 'We're' just taking advantage of that fact.

originally posted by: swanne
in reply to: tanstaafl

It's pegged to the USD average 2020 value. So future ups and downs are irrelevant.

Rotflmao!!!

And how, exactly, is the perceived value maintained, and adjusted over time? By what math? Who does the calculations? Meaning - who controls it?

The whole point I'm trying to make is, be careful with currencies that require mining, because on the long term, this only increases other entities' purchasing power over you; it does not actually empower you.

This is - again - an amazingly, astonishingly ignorant statement, no matter how many times you repeat it.

And also, f@ck China!

Once I cash in my stash, China will 'pay' when they see me driving my Winnie the Pooh Lambo.