Omicron reduces Covid antibodies in study of Pfizer vaccine recipients

The thread title was the headline of a CNBC article I came across today.

www.cnbc.com...

And the key points from the study...

Prof. Alex Sigal with the Africa Health Research Institute and a team of scientists tested blood samples of 12 people who had previously been vaccinated with the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. They were looking specifically at how well antibodies generated by the vaccine can neutralize the new variant — meaning block its ability to infect cells.

They found a 41-fold drop in the ability of the antibodies to neutralize the omicron variant compared with the original virus, a dramatic reduction from its performance against the original ancestral strain as well as other variants, according to a preprint of the study that hasn't yet been peer-reviewed.

I think the conclusions drawn from this study, and the assumptions going into the study, are totally bogus. But at least we have some pretty good data from this test, which is...

It seems people who have been vaccinated for COVID 19 can not produce antibodies as well as they used to.

I'm thinking this is because after they got vaccinated, their lymphatic system reacted by producing a flurry of white blood cells to flush the vaccine out their body. And after such a flurry of white blood cells are generated by the lymphatic system, they do not regenerate over night.

To me it seems obviously apparent, they don't have as much antibodies because they used them up!!!

I'm being optimistic and I'm thinking it might take a healthy person 2 years to recover from such abuse of the lymphatic system. Any comments?

a reply to: InachMarbank
Most “science” requires 3rd party testing and peer review. Apparently Pfizer has their own “science “

Not that the peer review process hasn’t been exposed to corruption, but come on

This is the only thing that will end the irrational Hysteria.

www.cdc.gov...

a reply to: carewemust

If there's another big wave of cases in December and January in USA that should signal to everybody in this great land, the year with vaccines was worse than the year before without vaccines.

Let's see how the next couple of months goes...

a reply to: InachMarbank

It seems people who have been vaccinated for COVID 19 can not produce antibodies as well as they used to.

That might be true, but that isn't what the study is saying.

It is saying that the antibodies produced by the Pfizer injection are not effective at neutralizing the omicron variant.

Edit: I found a link to the study for anyone interested

Pre-print study referenced by OP and CNBC

a reply to: InachMarbank

I wonder, when they change the vaccine, does that change the EUA as well, and the FDA approval, or is any variation of the original "vaccine" all included?

Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said Tuesday the company can develop a vaccine that specifically targets omicron by March 2022 if needed. Bourla said it will take a few weeks to get more definitive data on whether the current vaccines provide enough protection against the variant.

General question for someone who actually knows and has a link.

originally posted by: InachMarbank
The thread title was the headline of a CNBC article I came across today.

www.cnbc.com...

And the key points from the study...

Prof. Alex Sigal with the Africa Health Research Institute and a team of scientists tested blood samples of 12 people who had previously been vaccinated with the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. They were looking specifically at how well antibodies generated by the vaccine can neutralize the new variant — meaning block its ability to infect cells.

They found a 41-fold drop in the ability of the antibodies to neutralize the omicron variant compared with the original virus, a dramatic reduction from its performance against the original ancestral strain as well as other variants, according to a preprint of the study that hasn't yet been peer-reviewed.

I think the conclusions drawn from this study, and the assumptions going into the study, are totally bogus. But at least we have some pretty good data from this test, which is...

It seems people who have been vaccinated for COVID 19 can not produce antibodies as well as they used to.

I'm thinking this is because after they got vaccinated, their lymphatic system reacted by producing a flurry of white blood cells to flush the vaccine out their body. And after such a flurry of white blood cells are generated by the lymphatic system, they do not regenerate over night.

To me it seems obviously apparent, they don't have as much antibodies because they used them up!!!

I'm being optimistic and I'm thinking it might take a healthy person 2 years to recover from such abuse of the lymphatic system. Any comments?

I think you have no idea how the human immune system actually works.

First, the paper did not say that the individuals who were part of the study were producing 41 times fewer antibodies. It actually didn't discuss at all how many antibodies the test individuals produced. It said that the antibodies that the test subjects did produce were 41 times less effective against Omicron than they were against earlier strains of the virus like Alpha and Beta.

Second, your thinking about the lymphatic system and vaccines is totally bonkers. Here's a discussion of how it actually works and why the shots are given in the deltoid muscle:

"Muscles make an excellent vaccine administration site because muscle tissue contains important immune cells. These immune cells recognize the antigen, a tiny piece of a virus or bacteria introduced by the vaccine that stimulates an immune response. In the case of the COVID-19 vaccine, it is not introducing an antigen but rather administering the blueprint for producing antigens. The immune cells in the muscle tissue pick up these antigens and present them to the lymph nodes. Injecting the vaccine into muscle tissue keeps the vaccine localized, allowing immune cells to sound the alarm to other immune cells and get to work.

Once a vaccine is recognized by the immune cells in the muscle, these cells carry the antigen to lymph vessels, which transport the antigen-carrying immune cells into the lymph nodes. Lymph nodes, key components of our immune system, contain more immune cells that recognize the antigens in vaccines and start the immune process of creating antibodies."

theconversation.com...

In other words, the lymphatic system does not attack the vaccine because it mostly doesn't even see the vaccine directly; the lymphatic system processes the antigens produced by the vaccine to produce antibodies specific to that particular antigen--which is exactly what needs to happen for the immune system to mount an effective attack.

Third, white blood cells can be regenerated in a matter of hours:

"In response to an acute infection, trauma, or inflammation, white blood cells release a substance called colony-stimulating factor (CSF). CSF stimulates the bone marrow to increase white blood cell production. In a person with normally functioning bone marrow, the numbers of white blood cells can double within hours if needed. "'

www.rnceus.com...

Fourth, production of antibodies is not a one time event where you only produce a fixed number of them and then they are used up. Once your body has developed the memory of how to produce an antibody, it will keep producing them as long as it senses an infection by the antigen that produced the antibody in the first place.

Fifth, stimulating your lymphatic system to produce antibodies--whether through infection, vaccination, or some combination of both--is not "abusing" the lymphatic system. That is exactly what it has evolved to do.

Sixth, How did you arrive at the 2 year figure for a lymphatic system to recover? A wild a$$ guess, perhaps?

originally posted by: joejack1949
a reply to: InachMarbank

It seems people who have been vaccinated for COVID 19 can not produce antibodies as well as they used to.

That might be true, but that isn't what the study is saying.

It is saying that the antibodies produced by the Pfizer injection are not effective at neutralizing the omicron variant.

Edit: I found a link to the study for anyone interested

Pre-print study referenced by OP and CNBC

Omicron was first discovered as a very mild variant in S. Africa. The MSM mouthpieces are playing it up as the next worst thing to come, and leaders around the world are saying they won't be satisfied until every human on the planet has been fully vaccinated.

Why get our knickers in a bunch over a mild virus? Why force everyone on the planet to get jabbed? WTH is in the vaccine, and why are politicians exempting themselves if it's soo safe?

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: InachMarbank

I wonder, when they change the vaccine, does that change the EUA as well, and the FDA approval, or is any variation of the original "vaccine" all included?

Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said Tuesday the company can develop a vaccine that specifically targets omicron by March 2022 if needed. Bourla said it will take a few weeks to get more definitive data on whether the current vaccines provide enough protection against the variant.

General question for someone who actually knows and has a link.

I’d like to know the answer to that as well. In the same line of thinking…is the zero liability agreement they forced countries into for the initial jabs still valid for “new” vaxxes? I imagine they’re savvy enough to have that covered.

This is an overview of what's going on in Africa right now...

Overall it seems to be a milder form, and a third dose of vaccine *may* be helpful, but not absolutely necessary.

Apparently, covid has crossbred with the common cold, making it super virulent and much milder.

originally posted by: InachMarbank
The thread title was the headline of a CNBC article I came across today.

www.cnbc.com...

And the key points from the study...

Prof. Alex Sigal with the Africa Health Research Institute and a team of scientists tested blood samples of 12 people who had previously been vaccinated with the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. They were looking specifically at how well antibodies generated by the vaccine can neutralize the new variant — meaning block its ability to infect cells.

They found a 41-fold drop in the ability of the antibodies to neutralize the omicron variant compared with the original virus, a dramatic reduction from its performance against the original ancestral strain as well as other variants, according to a preprint of the study that hasn't yet been peer-reviewed.

I think the conclusions drawn from this study, and the assumptions going into the study, are totally bogus. But at least we have some pretty good data from this test, which is...

It seems people who have been vaccinated for COVID 19 can not produce antibodies as well as they used to.

I'm thinking this is because after they got vaccinated, their lymphatic system reacted by producing a flurry of white blood cells to flush the vaccine out their body. And after such a flurry of white blood cells are generated by the lymphatic system, they do not regenerate over night.

To me it seems obviously apparent, they don't have as much antibodies because they used them up!!!

I'm being optimistic and I'm thinking it might take a healthy person 2 years to recover from such abuse of the lymphatic system. Any comments?

Thats the dark signal for the next lineup of booster shots.

a reply to: joejack1949

I realize from the article that's not the conclusion they arrived at. But it is what I think the data they gathered supports.

a reply to: 1947boomer

If you are less effective at neutralizing the covid virus, it's probably a safe bet to say you aren't producing as much antibodies.

Also, thanks for the explanation of how the vaccine replicates and spreads throughout your system, abusing your lymphatic system to flood your body with white blood cells.

Not all white blood cells recover at the same rate.

"In the first period following haematopoietic cell transplantation (HCT), such as an infection, immune cells follow a predictable course of reconstitution. In contrast to the relatively early recovery of innate immune cells, recipients of HCT experience prolonged deficiencies in T cells and B cells, which can take more than 2 years to fully recover."

www.nature.com...