There Will Be 2 Before The 1

What I do find truly captivating is that things really really went tits up when we as humans decided "There is no God" and in turn destroyed the long standing pillar of morals.

Call me paranoid or just a coincidence but does anyone else feel like this was the moment we shot ourselves in the foot?

a reply to: WanderingMrM

It's just a replay of the Garden all over again, isn't it?

We decided that we would be as god for ourselves, and the results are predictable.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: WanderingMrM

It's just a replay of the Garden all over again, isn't it?

We decided that we would be as god for ourselves, and the results are predictable.

Except for this time things will get darker and the fall of man will be greater, also the one I speak of man is he going to make everyone fall for the tricks...

a reply to: WanderingMrM

There will be two - the false prophet and the Beast. One will be so attractive, many will think him the messiah. Remember, the first guy who comes along and seems too good to be true? ... likely is. The full second coming descends from Heaven.

originally posted by: MrBlaq
a reply to: ketsuko

Depends on what you mean by miracle. God set the rules of the universe in motion, and we rely on their consistency to define our reality. I suspect that what you mean in terms of miracle would mean for God to constantly and directly violate His own rules in order to render what *you* personally consider a *good* outcome. But who died and made you God to be able accurately and consistently judge what is good and will be good? And how many times should God directly disrupt the rules of the natural order to produce your *good* before reality itself is undermined and we have no faith in it? And how much unintentional evil will result in all this due to circumstances created that you cannot even fathom?

Just curious if you ever read the Bible.

There are many events through answered prayer
that did exactly what you are claiming God will not do.

# Water turned into blood Exodus chap 7

# The parting of the red sea - Exodus chapter 14

# Joshua commanding the Sun to stand still upon Gibeon - Joshua chapter 10

# Water flowing from a rock - Numbers chapter 20

# An ass speaking - Numbers chapter 22

# The Jordan river divided - Joshua chapter 3

# Bones of a dead man resurrect the dead - 2 Kings chapter 13

# Daniel survived in a Lions den Daniel chapter 6

Many times people in their desire to defend God declare
things inconsistent with Biblical narrative. You would be
wise to read Job chapter 47 (Specifically verse 7)

It is clear there are laws, Gods laws and he does not break them and does not allow them to be broken without the proper punishment.

originally posted by: SeaWorthy

originally posted by: MrBlaq
a reply to: ketsuko

Depends on what you mean by miracle. God set the rules of the universe in motion, and we rely on their consistency to define our reality. I suspect that what you mean in terms of miracle would mean for God to constantly and directly violate His own rules in order to render what *you* personally consider a *good* outcome. But who died and made you God to be able accurately and consistently judge what is good and will be good? And how many times should God directly disrupt the rules of the natural order to produce your *good* before reality itself is undermined and we have no faith in it? And how much unintentional evil will result in all this due to circumstances created that you cannot even fathom?

Just curious if you ever read the Bible.

There are many events through answered prayer
that did exactly what you are claiming God will not do.

# Water turned into blood Exodus chap 7

# The parting of the red sea - Exodus chapter 14

# Joshua commanding the Sun to stand still upon Gibeon - Joshua chapter 10

# Water flowing from a rock - Numbers chapter 20

# An ass speaking - Numbers chapter 22

# The Jordan river divided - Joshua chapter 3

# Bones of a dead man resurrect the dead - 2 Kings chapter 13

# Daniel survived in a Lions den Daniel chapter 6

Many times people in their desire to defend God declare
things inconsistent with Biblical narrative. You would be
wise to read Job chapter 47 (Specifically verse 7)

It is clear there are laws, Gods laws and he does not break them and does not allow them to be broken without the proper punishment.

God can bend the rules for miraculous things, but I believe for most miraculous events, He works within His own boundaries.

The implications of what I posted to the original poster who asked were that he preferred a god who would perform miracles of his choosing on his whim as he thought it good.

a reply to: hopeisasound


That's a very disturbing and arrogant statement all around and easily proven false.


According to your worldview all the people native to the Americas were playing pretend until Europeans arrived and converted them to Christianity through violence.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: SeaWorthy

originally posted by: MrBlaq
a reply to: ketsuko

Depends on what you mean by miracle. God set the rules of the universe in motion, and we rely on their consistency to define our reality. I suspect that what you mean in terms of miracle would mean for God to constantly and directly violate His own rules in order to render what *you* personally consider a *good* outcome. But who died and made you God to be able accurately and consistently judge what is good and will be good? And how many times should God directly disrupt the rules of the natural order to produce your *good* before reality itself is undermined and we have no faith in it? And how much unintentional evil will result in all this due to circumstances created that you cannot even fathom?

Just curious if you ever read the Bible.

There are many events through answered prayer
that did exactly what you are claiming God will not do.

# Water turned into blood Exodus chap 7

# The parting of the red sea - Exodus chapter 14

# Joshua commanding the Sun to stand still upon Gibeon - Joshua chapter 10

# Water flowing from a rock - Numbers chapter 20

# An ass speaking - Numbers chapter 22

# The Jordan river divided - Joshua chapter 3

# Bones of a dead man resurrect the dead - 2 Kings chapter 13

# Daniel survived in a Lions den Daniel chapter 6

Many times people in their desire to defend God declare
things inconsistent with Biblical narrative. You would be
wise to read Job chapter 47 (Specifically verse 7)

It is clear there are laws, Gods laws and he does not break them and does not allow them to be broken without the proper punishment.

God can bend the rules for miraculous things, but I believe for most miraculous events, He works within His own boundaries.

The implications of what I posted to the original poster who asked were that he preferred a god who would perform miracles of his choosing on his whim as he thought it good.

I guess sending 2 bears to rip some youths to shreds who mocked Elisha by calling him 'bald head' in 2 Kings 2:24 takes precedence over saving any child who has ever suffered a horrible death before or after.

Disturbing yes. Arrogant? How so? Easily proven false? I’m all for education, do enlighten me please.

Again, from your world view, why is anyone converting anyone by force objectively wrong? Says who? You? Don’t get me wrong, I think you’d be correct in saying this is wrong but I have a foundation to make that claim. All you can say is “I don’t like it”.

So all Europeans are violent, that is your assertion? Or all Christians are violent? Or all Christian Europeans? Come on man, I get what you’re saying. I get you don’t like the idea of God or Christians but you can come up with a better argument than that. Anyone claiming to be a follower of Christ that uses violence towards others clearly doesn’t truly follow Christ. Anyone can CLAIM to follow Christ. I’m gonna take a shot in the dark here and guess you’re a big Christopher Hitchens fan?

Also, how does my world view say that Natives were playing pretend? Every native I know, Christian or not, is just as genuine in their beliefs as anyone else I know. And fyi my father is almost 100% native so I do know a little about their culture and beliefs. But in all sincerity, I’m genuinely curious as to the foundation of your morality. In your view, what gives you the right to say that anyone else’s morality is wrong if it’s all relative?

a reply to: hopeisasound

Isn't there a passage in the bible that says do not stand in the way of the sinner or try to change him to the path or righteousness?

Basically it means do not force nor push anyone towards the right path, as it seems God doesn't want a bunch of "Yes" men or women, because God wants every one of his kids to find their way back to the father

Even Jesus didn't force the masses, the message was always "Love" and that the kingdom is within all of mankind and with mankind.

Yes God has wrath but the wrath part is just and true, the same way that is the will of the Father.

I should probably read the bible

a reply to: WanderingMrM

Are you addressing my asking why converting by force is wrong or me challenging the views of Mr Bones?

Of course converting anyone by force is wrong but my question to 19bones79 was simply why it’s wrong. From his point of view. If you’re referring to me challenging someone else’s beliefs, in all honesty I just love intellectual conversations with other intelligent people. I may sound somewhat forward or like I’m poking the bear but it’s all in the name of good convo and a little philosophical wrestling.

originally posted by: hopeisasound
a reply to: WanderingMrM

Are you addressing my asking why converting by force is wrong or me challenging the views of Mr Bones?

Of course converting anyone by force is wrong but my question to 19bones79 was simply why it’s wrong. From his point of view. If you’re referring to me challenging someone else’s beliefs, in all honesty I just love intellectual conversations with other intelligent people. I may sound somewhat forward or like I’m poking the bear but it’s all in the name of good convo and a little philosophical wrestling.

No no I'm not, I'm just saying how people only pick certain things when in reality if you really read into the bible it says other things.

Also it was more directed to Bones79, I do find people interesting when they blame the father for everything and I literally mean everything.

a reply to: SeaWorthy

It is clear there are laws, Gods laws and he does not break them and does not
allow them to be broken without the proper punishment.

Psalms 145:8 thru 10

originally posted by: WanderingMrM
a reply to: hopeisasound

Isn't there a passage in the bible that says do not stand in the way of the sinner or try to change him to the path or righteousness?

Basically it means do not force nor push anyone towards the right path, as it seems God doesn't want a bunch of "Yes" men or women, because God wants every one of his kids to find their way back to the father

Even Jesus didn't force the masses, the message was always "Love" and that the kingdom is within all of mankind and with mankind.

Yes God has wrath but the wrath part is just and true, the same way that is the will of the Father.

I should probably read the bible

My favorite, and shortest, verse in the Bible.

"Jesus wept"

There is so much meaning and story in those 2 little words...

a reply to: hopeisasound

Is the native American god the same god you serve?

And if not, does he exist in your opinion and if so how would you classify their deity(s)?

originally posted by: Riffrafter

originally posted by: WanderingMrM
a reply to: hopeisasound

Isn't there a passage in the bible that says do not stand in the way of the sinner or try to change him to the path or righteousness?

Basically it means do not force nor push anyone towards the right path, as it seems God doesn't want a bunch of "Yes" men or women, because God wants every one of his kids to find their way back to the father

Even Jesus didn't force the masses, the message was always "Love" and that the kingdom is within all of mankind and with mankind.

Yes God has wrath but the wrath part is just and true, the same way that is the will of the Father.

I should probably read the bible

My favorite, and shortest, verse in the Bible.

"Jesus wept"

There is so much meaning and story in those 2 little words...

What did he weep about?

a reply to: WanderingMrM

I should probably read the bible

From the sounds of your dream, I figured you were already doing so, which is good to hear.

The exception I have with your dream is the idea that Jesus (the child that rules with the iron rod/fist) is currently living in a human state here on earth, which he is not. He is currently using the Holy Spirit to reveal himself to us until his physical second coming. Ketsuko is right; when Jesus arrives on the scene, he will be descending from heaven...

Matthew 24:26-30

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

a reply to: 19Bones79

None are good. Not one.

Again, you presume to know good and evil and all the implications of contravening what has been set in motion. Bears? Who is to say those youths weren't already in bear infested areas. For all you know, they set up camp in the Biblical equivalent of an Alaskan salmon river at the hottest fishing spot. Not such a stretch for bears to show up there and get a trifle upset at them being in the way.

a reply to: WanderingMrM

Isn't there a passage in the bible that says do not stand in the way of the sinner or try to change him to the path or righteousness?

Basically it means do not force nor push anyone towards the right path, as it seems God doesn't want a bunch of "Yes" men or women, because God wants every one of his kids to find their way back to the father.

Matthew 10:11-14

11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Even Jesus didn't force the masses, the message was always "Love" and that the kingdom is within all of mankind and with mankind.

The kingdom within is a reference to the Holy Spirit abiding with us until the second coming of Jesus. After Jesus returns, he will bring in the peaceful millennial period here on the earth in order to fulfill the Father's covenant with the Jews. Once that is complete, the new and permanent kingdom (the New Jerusalem) will be sent down from heaven, just like Jesus was.

a reply to: Deetermined

See I thought too but as I understand/was shown is that the Antichrist is one person, the child with the iron rod is a 2nd person and Jesus is a whole other person which is the 3rd to arrive on the scene.

What I'm saying is the Antichrist and Child with the Iron Rod will go to war against one another, after which Jesus arrives on the scene and we have the 1000 years of peace before the full real end...

The child with the iron rod I write heavily about in my dreams about Russia etc.