The Ancient Egyptian Stones Were Perfectly Precise How is this Possible? Many Qs Little Answers

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

It does, unless all the DDC users built was the granite interior.

One can look at the Aswan quarries where the granite came from. However, the granite within the relieving chambers was marked by the ancient Egyptians one has to ask why they would have put work gang names on stones that were already there and then seal it up so the British had to blast into it?

Puzzling also why don't we find "precursor" writing or tools withing (BM what should we called these folks you are interested in Proto-Egyptians? What term would you prefer?

The issue with the granite quarries at Aswan is they don't show any evidence of being used at an earlier date. Their are habitations in that area but they show no sign of granite use.

www.ngu.no...

The best one can say is that their is no evidence of an earlier granite using culture at Aswan until the dynastic Egyptians began quarrying there.

can they use IRRF

to try to date some of these stones? and the quarries?

i mean to maybe find a time span?

or even just more data.

originally posted by: sarahvital
can they use IRRF

to try to date some of these stones? and the quarries?

i mean to maybe find a time span?

or even just more data.

You could but you'll get not when the quarry was first used but when the last time a rock face was exposed. The quarries were used after the Dynasty periods. However, it would provide a range. Not sure if the quarries were buried after the Roman period.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

It does, unless all the DDC users built was the granite interior.

One can look at the Aswan quarries where the granite came from. However, the granite within the relieving chambers was marked by the ancient Egyptians one has to ask why they would have put work gang names on stones that were already there and then seal it up so the British had to blast into it?

Looking through images of those chambers, I'm pretty sure that only the limestone has markings.

Nothing on the granite.

Puzzling also why don't we find "precursor" writing or tools withing (BM what should we called these folks you are interested in Proto-Egyptians? What term would you prefer?

Choosing a name for them is a good idea. Everyone always seems to jump to Atlantis, but I don't think Atlantis was the only thing going on. I doubt it was even that big of a deal. If it really existed, it was only for a short part of a very long era.

The issue with the granite quarries at Aswan is they don't show any evidence of being used at an earlier date. Their are habitations in that area but they show no sign of granite use.

www.ngu.no...

The best one can say is that their is no evidence of an earlier granite using culture at Aswan until the dynastic Egyptians began quarrying there.

I am curious about Aswan.

mymodernmet.com...

On the one hand, it shows clear signs of having been at least used by the AE at some point, right?

On the other hand, those divit marks look so mysterious, and a person is tempted to reach for some kind of strange technology to describe it.

The pounders could be how they shaped the whole thing, but they could also have been used just to finish it so it looks nice . (Other kinds of stone work often do that, using one tool for rough shaping and another tool for fine work.)

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous


Looking through images of those chambers, I'm pretty sure that only the limestone has markings.

Nothing on the granite.

Yes my mis-write there on the walls not the granite, sorry


Choosing a name for them is a good idea. Everyone always seems to jump to Atlantis, but I don't think Atlantis was the only thing going on. I doubt it was even that big of a deal. If it really existed, it was only for a short part of a very long era.

Advanced Unknown Civilization or AUC? Or ACU, CUA

I am curious about Aswan.

mymodernmet.com...

On the one hand, it shows clear signs of having been at least used by the AE at some point, right?

On the other hand, those divit marks look so mysterious, and a person is tempted to reach for some kind of strange technology to describe it.

The pounders could be how they shaped the whole thing, but they could also have been used just to finish it so it looks nice . (Other kinds of stone work often do that, using one tool for rough shaping and another tool for fine work.)

I walked thru it twice once when it was blistering hot the next time I was able to spend more time looking at the various aspects of it, especially the abandoned pieces left in out of the way places. But I did so with an Egyptologist girlfriend. I remember her quite well but not the deluge of information she provided - sorry I broke the sacred vow of the archaeologist; pottery and rocks uber alles.

pottery and rocks uber alles.

Gabbros before hoes.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte

pottery and rocks uber alles.

Gabbros before hoes.

Harte

Yeah love those chunks....

One of the most interesting aspects of those quarries is when you note the Rome brought in the technique of using iron wedges to split stone. Harte you've seen this one I am sure. Placing it for the other contributors and lurkers.

www.eeescience.utoledo.edu...

originally posted by: Hanslune


I walked thru it twice once when it was blistering hot the next time I was able to spend more time looking at the various aspects of it, especially the abandoned pieces left in out of the way places. But I did so with an Egyptologist girlfriend. I remember her quite well but not the deluge of information she provided - sorry I broke the sacred vow of the archaeologist; pottery and rocks uber alles.

I guess the climate could have been different back then? Does it perhaps get cooler during spring/fall?


But just the fact its so blistering hot there (and everyone who goes there and talks about it seems to agree on this.) It makes it hard to imagine how they would have been able to use such a labor intensive method?

Just the logistics, of getting enough water to the site, so the men don't die of heat stroke, would be harder than the actual work the men themselves are doing. Bringing big jugs of water over how much distance? In horse drawn chariot? On horse back? Camel back, I guess?

In the modern world, using trucks, it would be hard.

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

originally posted by: Hanslune


I walked thru it twice once when it was blistering hot the next time I was able to spend more time looking at the various aspects of it, especially the abandoned pieces left in out of the way places. But I did so with an Egyptologist girlfriend. I remember her quite well but not the deluge of information she provided - sorry I broke the sacred vow of the archaeologist; pottery and rocks uber alles.

I guess the climate could have been different back then? Does it perhaps get cooler during spring/fall?


But just the fact its so blistering hot there (and everyone who goes there and talks about it seems to agree on this.) It makes it hard to imagine how they would have been able to use such a labor intensive method?

Just the logistics, of getting enough water to the site, so the men don't die of heat stroke, would be harder than the actual work the men themselves are doing. Bringing big jugs of water over how much distance? In horse drawn chariot? On horse back? Camel back, I guess?

In the modern world, using trucks, it would be hard.

Yeah heat is a problem especially for those who don't grow up in such a climate. I had a couple decades of exposure to such heat and you can survive if you have enough water, shade and don't try to do any heavy labor in the afternoon. Early morning and late afternoon is the way to do it. If you can arrange shade that works too.

The worse thing I underwent was to leave an air conditioned building especially ones with computers in them and so in the high 60s within, hit 110 F heat walk to another building and go into same seemingly frigid environment, coll, hot, sweating, cold shock.

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

originally posted by: Hanslune


I walked thru it twice once when it was blistering hot the next time I was able to spend more time looking at the various aspects of it, especially the abandoned pieces left in out of the way places. But I did so with an Egyptologist girlfriend. I remember her quite well but not the deluge of information she provided - sorry I broke the sacred vow of the archaeologist; pottery and rocks uber alles.

I guess the climate could have been different back then? Does it perhaps get cooler during spring/fall?

There's no such thing as spring or fall there. Just "rainy season" and "not rainy season."

But just the fact its so blistering hot there (and everyone who goes there and talks about it seems to agree on this.) It makes it hard to imagine how they would have been able to use such a labor intensive method?

"Blistering" is subjective, good sir. As a Texan I was perfectly comfortable there even without air conditioning. As to labor, next time you drive through Dallas in the summer, notice all the road crews and construction crews out working in the hot Texas sun.

And we don't have a lot of those worker dying from heat stroke because we all know how to handle it.

Just the logistics, of getting enough water to the site, so the men don't die of heat stroke, would be harder than the actual work the men themselves are doing. Bringing big jugs of water over how much distance? In horse drawn chariot? On horse back? Camel back, I guess?

It's next to the river.

The granite was a desirable product and it was shipped all over Egypt. Because they didn't have roads, it traveled down the Nile. And because Rocks Iz Heavy (tm) and they didn't want to drag them all over creation, they built the docks next to the quarry.

In the modern world, using trucks, it would be hard.

Nah.

Just come to Texas and watch. Or New Mexico. Or Arizona. Or Mexico. Or any equatorial country.

a reply to: AlanBChrist

In the end the whole point of the DDC was to find a way
to bring the 480f UP RAMP that one would have to build
into a more workable 230ft UP RAMP

The material needed for that UP RAMP would come from the excavation
if someone ran the numbers they will see that the volume extracted
is very close to the volume needed But How the mateiral is used to
form the UP RAMP is still not clear

Even with the few tools they had the DDC can show how to build such a structure ,,.,
in a TANGABLE world.. A stucture like the great pyramid need not
to be built on the giza plateau ,,. it only need to be built and only one method
can do that

The DDC

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

originally posted by: Hanslune


I walked thru it twice once when it was blistering hot the next time I was able to spend more time looking at the various aspects of it, especially the abandoned pieces left in out of the way places. But I did so with an Egyptologist girlfriend. I remember her quite well but not the deluge of information she provided - sorry I broke the sacred vow of the archaeologist; pottery and rocks uber alles.

I guess the climate could have been different back then? Does it perhaps get cooler during spring/fall?

There's no such thing as spring or fall there. Just "rainy season" and "not rainy season."

A rainy season would probably make it easy to keep water handy.

But just the fact its so blistering hot there (and everyone who goes there and talks about it seems to agree on this.) It makes it hard to imagine how they would have been able to use such a labor intensive method?

"Blistering" is subjective, good sir. As a Texan I was perfectly comfortable there even without air conditioning. As to labor, next time you drive through Dallas in the summer, notice all the road crews and construction crews out working in the hot Texas sun.

And we don't have a lot of those worker dying from heat stroke because we all know how to handle it.

They probably drink a lot of water.

And in most cases, a worker outside in the heat knows not to continually exert themself.

The heavy diorite pounders would represent a worrisome amount of exertion if they were continually being driven by hand (although in practice I don't think they "pound" with them, but rather slide them over the surface and it scrapes material off as it goes.)


Makes me wonder if maybe they did some of the work at night? If there is any kind of novel light source for that at their technology?

I'm sure they draped some kind of tenting over it to give themself some shade, at any rate.

Just the logistics, of getting enough water to the site, so the men don't die of heat stroke, would be harder than the actual work the men themselves are doing. Bringing big jugs of water over how much distance? In horse drawn chariot? On horse back? Camel back, I guess?

It's next to the river.

The granite was a desirable product and it was shipped all over Egypt. Because they didn't have roads, it traveled down the Nile. And because Rocks Iz Heavy (tm) and they didn't want to drag them all over creation, they built the docks next to the quarry.

In the modern world, using trucks, it would be hard.

Nah.

Just come to Texas and watch. Or New Mexico. Or Arizona. Or Mexico. Or any equatorial country.

If it's next to a river, then it's probably fine. Main thing is to be within reasonable distance of a water source. That way you can assign a smaller portion of your work force to water transport duty.

If it were far away from the nearest water, then in order to get appreciable amounts of it to the site, you'd have to consider how long it takes one worker to move one bucket of water the full distance, or one wagonful.

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

I've used pounders and the round one are those that are used up. Angular one's work better and also being attached to wood handles helps a great deal. I used the pounders mostly held in my hands on Rapa Nui and it's hard on the wrists elbows and shoulders.

'Grinding' also worked to a point but I could not say whether that would have been more efficient than hammering.



weather-and-climate.com...

Rainfall in my experience at Giza comes in downpours. The water runs off the rocks of Giza and into wadis, especially the one that ends up near the Sphinx. You have to let it settle for a while for the sand to sink to the bottom of whatever container you are using.

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

If it's next to a river, then it's probably fine. Main thing is to be within reasonable distance of a water source. That way you can assign a smaller portion of your work force to water transport duty.

If it were far away from the nearest water, then in order to get appreciable amounts of it to the site, you'd have to consider how long it takes one worker to move one bucket of water the full distance, or one wagonful.

I've visited the quarry.

It is right next to the river,

That's where the boats docked to take the big chunks back to studios. That's where the barges docked to take Hatshepsut's big obelisks over to Karnak.

Quarry workers were usually criminals, by the way. They had skilled supervisors and probably skilled team leads, however.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

If it's next to a river, then it's probably fine. Main thing is to be within reasonable distance of a water source. That way you can assign a smaller portion of your work force to water transport duty.

If it were far away from the nearest water, then in order to get appreciable amounts of it to the site, you'd have to consider how long it takes one worker to move one bucket of water the full distance, or one wagonful.

I've visited the quarry.

It is right next to the river,

That's where the boats docked to take the big chunks back to studios. That's where the barges docked to take Hatshepsut's big obelisks over to Karnak.

Quarry workers were usually criminals, by the way. They had skilled supervisors and probably skilled team leads, however.

map of the main quarry near Aswan


Various ones but all near the river.

Figure 7. Map showing an ancient quarry landscape covering about 100 km 2 in the Aswan area, with quarries for granite and granodiorite in Aswan (H6); dolerite in Aswan (H37–38); silicified sandstone at Wadi Abu Aggag (H4), Gebels Gulab and Tingar (H5), and Wadi Abu Subeira (H36); and normal (non-silicified) sandstone at numerous localities (S12–13, S16–18, and S38). Map by Per Storemyr based on a survey by the QuarryScapes project as well as on Harrell and Madbouly (2006) for Wadi Abu Aggag and Klemm and Klemm (1993) for the Aswan granite/granodiorite quarries. A Landsat satellite image (ca. 2000) is used as background

a reply to: Hanslune

Thank you! I was too lazy to look up the map.