Cataclysmic pole shift hypothesis-Science versus Pseudoscience

originally posted by: DaRAGE
Also yes centrifical is a word though most use centrifugal. Or maybe not. It could be just one of those write as you say errors.

No centrifical is not a word. When I searched for it, not only couldn't I find it as a real word, when someone asked about it in a forum the reply was that it wasn't a word and they probably mean either centripetal or centrifugal, which are two words which sound similar, but they can refer to forces in opposite directions. We don't need a third word to add to the confusion, but we do have people who make errors.

If someone makes a simple typo I have no reason to mention it, I've made those myself.

But there are some cases where everybody should pay more attention, and that's when they use words that are at the focal point of what they are talking about. That was the case with centrifugal force and some people's crustal shift ideas. Another case is if you make a thread, if you aren't sure how to spell every word in the title of the thread, you should look them up. The title is only a handful of words anyway and I tend to not take posts seriously if the poster can't at least spell the title right.

One example was a person who said he knew better than the 10,000+ scientists at the large hadron collider and tried to debunk them, but he couldn't even spell hadron. It was impossible to take anything he said seriously about debunking a hadron collider when he can't spell hadron. If you disagree you're entitled to your wrong opinion but you would be wrong. In cases like that, it does matter. Anyway it was no surprise that the poster was also clueless about the large hadron collider in his supposed "debunking", so the wrong spelling of hadron was a pretty good indicator in that case.

originally posted by: doorhandle
a reply to: Arbitrageur

You are likely correct, but I just want to comment that maybe could have worded your response a little more politely to Vroomfondel who I think was asking his question quite sincerely. Getting hung up on spelling? oh please, that’s so last century.

I worded my response to Vroomfondel strongly to try to help Vroomfondel come across as someone who can be taken seriously by not using words that don't exist. But that action bore no fruit since he still hasn't admitted centripetal is not even a word, so doesn't that indicate I didn't make my argument about it not being a word strongly enough?

a reply to: Fowlerstoad
My first observation is that the Earth's magnetic field is relatively weak.
So its interaction with other magnetic fields will be limited if the other magnetic fields are also weak.

if a strong enough magnetic field from outside the solar system intervened (for instance: the changing polarity of crossing the galactic current sheet)

You'll have to give me some links to some scientific papers on the galactic current sheet and what you mean by changing polarity, so I can read up on those details. I'm wondering if you're thinking of heliospheric current sheets, which I've heard of, and the sun does change polarity during each solar cycle, but in the heliospheric context I wouldn't know what you mean by "crossing".

I've seen sources like this one saying the Milky Way's magnetic field is thousands of times weaker than the Earth's weak magnetic field, so while there may be some interaction on some theoretical level, I wouldn't expect it to be significant for something like torquing the Earth's axis, but understanding it may be significant in other ways as mentioned below.

This is the Milky Way’s Magnetic Field

The Milky Way galaxy has its own magnetic field. It’s extremely weak compared to Earth’s; thousands of times weaker, in fact. But astronomers want to know more about it because of what it can tell us about star formation, cosmic rays, and a host of other astrophysical processes.

If a rogue magnetar passed near the Earth, they have such strong magnetic fields that they might do something. If you know physics you could even try to do some calculations on that idea, by plugging in the earth's magnetic field, the magnetar's magnetic field, and how fast and how closely the magnetar passed by the Earth. I suspect it could torque Earth's core and magnetic field. Whether it could also torque the rest of the Earth, I dont know. Close passing magnetars are thought to be able to destroy life because they distort the bonds holding molecules together so badly.

originally posted by: puzzled2
a reply to: Arbitrageur

See your nemesis Ben has put his name to a 4 part series. If your are so confident why not go and inform him of his lack of understanding using you own name of course?

You could even link to how you destroy him.

First, the topic of this thread is Cataclysmic pole shift hypothesis-Science versus Pseudoscience, so until you explain how the four part series pertains to the subject of this thread, it looks to me like you're going off-topic.

It doesn't seem to me like there's any point in trying to debate with Ben's supporters. Professor Dave gave specific examples of Ben's lies, then someone posted a video from Ben allegedly debunking professor Dave, and I responded here showing how that starts out with more lies:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The only reply I got was something about me attacking people from the shadows, which doesn't address any specific points I made, so this is why I say it seems completely pointless to attempt any "debate" with Ben's supporters.

originally posted by: 2Faced
A very good idea! It could put some things to rest and shut some people up.

It didn't seem to shut anybody up when Professor Dave showed how Ben was lying, nor when I showed how Ben was lying again in his video attempting to debunk professor Dave.

originally posted by: 2Faced
Anyway, I would like to see people explain away the videos I mentioned above and below. By all means! Because if these theories are true, we are being lied to on an unimaginable scale, our future is grimm, and it explains the current state we're in, and why we can never trust those in power, because they know,.......they know.....

Unless you explain how those videos pertain to Cataclysmic pole shift hypothesis-Science versus Pseudoscience, they look off-topic to me. As I said earlier in the thread, I can think of numerous legitimate doomsday scenarios that are very likely to happen, (like the sun expanding into a red giant which will encompass Earth's current orbit in a few billion years, but all the water in the oceans will boil away before then possibly in as little as a billion years).

Some other doom porn scenarios are also possible. The Earth spends more time in ice ages than out of them as far as I can tell, and another ice age which covered large parts of land with large ice sheets will very likely happen again someday. If it weren't for global warming we couldn't guarantee it wouldn't start happening as soon as 1000 years from now, but the warming has probably pushed the earliest date for the next ice age back to at least 20,000 years from now, perhaps longer.

You're entitled to believe what you want, but the truth is, there's no conspiracy to cover the "electric universe". As Phill Plaitt said:

At best, the 'electric universe' is a solution in search of a problem; it seeks to explain things we already understand very well through gravity, plasma and nuclear physics, and the like," said astronomer Phil Plait, who runs the blog Bad Astronomy at Slate. "At worst it's sheer crackpottery like homeopathy and astrology, making claims clearly contradicted by the evidence."...

"From what I've seen, most EU claims are on the cranky end of [the] scale. That's why most astronomers ignore it: No evidence for it, tons of evidence against it, and no support mathematically or physically."

The People Who Believe Electricity Rules the Universe

So believe whatever you want about electric universe, that explains why astronomers really don't care. I've seen the pictures EU advocates show of "craters" formed by electric discharge, but if you really look closely, they don't really look the same as the impact craters we see. Not only that but they compare a crater in metal to one in rock, and rock doesn't have the same conductive properties as metal, and so on.

So I have no problem with doomsday scenarios founded in science, we can come up with those. It's only those founded in bad science, pseudoscience or lies instead of science that I have a problem with.

I give Charles Hapgood who came up with the Cataclysmic pole shift hypothesis credit for admitting Einstein was right that the math of his idea just didn't work out, a type of admission I never see from electric universe proponents because I never see them using any math.

In physics, theories need math. That's how you predict, gather evidence, verify, disprove, and support. But EU theory isn't big on math. In fact, "Mathematics is not physics," Thornhill said. While that equation aversion makes the theory pretty much a nonstarter for "mainstream" astronomers, it is the exact thing that appeals to many adherents.

That what you regard as off topic, I see as proof that established scientists ignore evidence which is overwhelming (see symbols of an alien sky pt. II, specially the part about vales marineris), which is causing me to think that established science isn't always correct or honest, and that, just because someone has credentials or a reputation, it doesn't mean they can't distort facts, ignore them or lie about it. Sometimes the evidence speaks for itself, and in this particular case it becomes clear that our established scientists at least ignore facts (rim craters, string craters, scalloping, dendritic shaped mountsmountains etc.), which can be reproduced in a laboratory with predictable results. To be honest, I can't believe that there are people who dispute it, after listening and watching the video.

I only have (beit small) doubts because I have too much repsect for scientist, and aknowledge the fact I could be missing something important, but as far as I can see, or understand, this particular theory is correct. And if so, real scientists lie about it.



a reply to: Arbitrageur

a reply to: 2Faced
You're welcome to make a thread on that subject where it would be on topic, and if I was going to be around, I might even engage you on the topic, but I'm going to be on holiday for a while so I probably won't be posting here much after today, for some time.

Since every EU video I've seen is wrong overall (though they may have a few things right here and there where they agree with mainstream science), I expect the chances you've managed to find four that are right are pretty close to zero. If I get some free time in December, maybe I'll look into them, but I have to tell you, it's painful to watch EU videos for someone well versed in science. It's kind of like that blackboard sqeaking noise that's so unsettling...you can live through it but it's an unpleasant experience.

Then if you do try to explain why they are wrong, you're just ignored by EU supporters who simply accuse you of being a shill that's part of the conspiracy, so it seems pointless and I can see why most astronomers just ignore EU from Thornhill.

That's not to say there isn't an electric universe, there is, it's just not the one Thornhill and others lie about. The real electric universe is discussed in mainstream scientific literature.

The REAL Electric Universe
Many EU advocates try to claim that astrophysics ignores the effects of electric fields and currents as possible drivers of astrophysical phenomena. Once they do this, EU advocates try to hijack the discoveries of legitimate researchers, claiming success for their theories with any mention of currents in mainstream astrophysics. Yet electric currents and fields are discussed throughout the professional astrophysical literature, predating much of the Electric Universe.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

The title of the thread is Cataclysmic pole shift hypothesis-Science versus Pseudoscience,

The topic of the thread is a Professor Dave fanboy hating on Ben Davidson and his failure to find a 150 year old word.

The 4 part mini series is on the results of the Cataclysmic pole shift hypothesis weakening and changing Earths climate.

What has you actually challenging the man's theories on his site got to do with his supporters?
You don't need to reply to them only him.
Perhaps you're unable to defend your position, as you're using such a weak argument to avoid a debate with him.
Perhaps it is you unable to think outside of the prof Dave instruction rather than Ben reading scientific papers abilities.

As always let's not hold our breath, listen to the debates and see who is right in the real world.

I have a question.

If the Earths North and South magnetic poles flip, Will the Earth slow down it's rotation, stop, and begin to spin the opposite direction like a magnetic motor?

Or will the Earth continue spinning in the same direction but the Earth will flip upside down if that happens?

I get that the nerds are going to fight over whether or not magnetic bolts of lightning flying out of the suns ass cause earthquakes, or whatever. But at the end of the day. There does appear to be a 12000 year climate cycle. From the content I've watched that been has put out, he's always been critical of science. Which should be encouraged actually. The orthodoxy should always be challenged. Some scientists throughout history were killed for suggesting that the Earth revolves around the Sun. I'm not saying that Ben is on Galileo's level, but he is right that the current climate model has not predicted anything accurately, and worse, the model can't even predict past events. Which is why in the news today, they just released new findings that human caused global warming has been going much longer than previously thought.

The point is, they keep having to adjust climate models, because it's always wrong. He is right about that, no doubt.

Is it possible that the Sun drives climate more than Carbon? I don't know, but clearly, climate scientists don't either. If they did, they wouldn't have to adjust their model every decade.

originally posted by: DaRAGE
I have a question.

If the Earths North and South magnetic poles flip, Will the Earth slow down it's rotation, stop, and begin to spin the opposite direction like a magnetic motor?

Or will the Earth continue spinning in the same direction but the Earth will flip upside down if that happens?

Since I am of the opinion that the earth has been terraformed, beginning some 70 million years ago, I believe any planetary tilt, rotational angle. is done by mechanical means.

It is possible to actually flip north to south, mechanically, but doubtful. You, I believe would get the same effect by just spinning the planet in the opposite direction. The "Skid Marks" are observable where another spherical object came into contact with the surface of our planet, multiple times. Now, consider those dark circles on the moon, are not lava flows...

NOTE: Some of those dark circles have the same diameter as those skid marks.

Its all been a lie!

My opinion.

a reply to: DaRAGE

That is a very astute postulation you present. Thanks ... I favor 'electric motor'. I am not sure I will personally live to see which is correct though

a reply to: All Seeing Eye

If you look at the native American Hoop dance and the Video game franchise Halo it might either solidify your belief/reality more or make you seem like a loon to those friends and family you know that believe and think otherwise.

But locking those rings together and recycling the poop out of the center until it is hollow again or someone is born out of it like an egg, using them as a sort of star gate cowboy bebop style until they need to be terra formed inside again or more are built to join up as we further our reaches in space.

Oh have I explored that as a possibility? No not at all but there's another one similar Galaxy Express 999/777 as it is supposed to be a quicker tourist type of route visiting all the worlds/systems already made that way.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Seems like you have the opportunity to take on Ben and shut him down for good.

Are you up to the public challenge?



Would be good to document your progress here.

a reply to: puzzled2
Ben Davidson has already been proven wrong, but his followers don't seem to care that he's wrong. So it doesn't seem worthwhile to put more effort into proving he's still wrong.

BEN DAVIDSON EXPOSED

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Seems to be rather lacking in any evidence, the good old "I'm a scientist" picks a graph that looks similar to temperature change and then concludes it proves CO2 is the cause.

In the 2nd video again there is no scientific proof, just the this graph looks like this graph so Ben is wrong.
Then talks about his friends not agreeing with Ben in private conversations.

Didn't see the scientific papers, saw lots of "someone" doesn't agree with "someone else".
The video series is 8 years old so we could assume your expert can prove the science predictions made then are 100% accurate and nothing new has entered the equation.
Can't we?
As your expert says "don't believe anyone trying to sell you anything as a solution".
Do you need some Carbon credits or do you have enough to warrant your existence?

This marble we are on has had a long history of dramatic extreme temperatures, billions of years floating around in space being bombarded with god knows what and yet CO2 is going to kill us.
If it was true, why haven't they simply cut the biggest generators, the power at the power station?
Think how much carbon is being generated for non-essential to human life data streaming.
What would be saved if they simply stopped Tik tok, youtube, etc?

Perhaps your expert should accept Ben's challenge and offer to debate Ben at the conference? Would be interesting to see a face to face challenge.

a reply to: Crowfoot

If you look at the native American Hoop dance and the Video game franchise Halo it might either solidify your belief/reality more or make you seem like a loon to those friends and family you know that believe and think otherwise.

I do not come to my conclusions by way of fiction or misunderstood folklore, but by science. And that starts with the observation.

I observe some very unusual scarring on the bed of the pacific. The first decision that must be made is, are they what would be logically expected from some natural process. Then you would look for that natural process to explain what is seen. If you decide to look at the marks as "Un-Natural" then you would look for what might have made those marks. A good scientist will explore both possibilities, regardless, of what "Settled Science" might conclude.



You will note there are three "skid marks" that partially cover each other from the right to left. The one to the extreme right appears to have been laid down first. The one to the extreme left appears to be the last. Question, were they laid down in the same time period, or, separate events. The one to the right appears to have been laid down while the planet was rotating as materials are piled up to the right and form the Mariana Island Chain, indicating the planet was rotating, in the opposite direction when the mark was made. The mark to the left has no piling up of sediment and would suggest the planet is no longer rotating. I would conclude the marks were laid down in the same general time frame.

It appears as though they were laid first in the north, moving south. The result, in my opinion, was to drag the earth south from its original angle alignment to the sun. In other words, it moved the rotational point from the original north point to where you see it today. The result would be, seasons.

The shape of the marks themselves betray what the shape of the object was that caused the marks. And that appears to be a rather large Spherical object, as the end of the marks have a radius to them. In as far as if this event was a result of some natural happening it could be possible, but unlikely as the event is repeated 3 times in close proximity to each other. It took 3 trys to move the planet, 23 degrees.

No fanciful new age explanation is required to explain the earth tilt. It was done simply, mechanically.

As to what that rather large spherical object was, well, there is really only one suspect in view...

Oh have I explored that as a possibility? No not at all
but there's another one similar Galaxy Express 999/777 as it is supposed to be a quicker tourist type of route visiting all the worlds/systems already made that way.

The thought crossed my mind a very long time ago that all the galaxies out there were separated by insurmountable distances for a reason. And I suppose that was to keep one galaxy from infecting another. Is that what happened here?

There is no way for me to make any scientific discoveries concerning the possibility that other life forms from other terraformed plants are a reality, because my vision is limited to the reality I live presently. But in saying that, just because I can't see something, doesn't mean it isn't real in some other "Reality".

Thank you for your thoughts........

NASA here stated antartica is gaining ice. If that be the case what land based water is attibuting to sea level rise. If see level rise is not accelerating then warming is a myth.

a reply to: All Seeing Eye

Maybe it's where the moon snapped off rolled all over the place until it reached escape velocity and ended up still in escape velocity to where it is we see it today collecting all the dirt dust and debris like the moons around Saturn do.

The pole star at the end of the little dipper is what pulls along and three pole stars from below as non local gravitation... in a suspension as we roll around the local solar body like a moon some of the planets have escape velocity from the local solar body and some do not Mercury will likely fall into it adding more fuel at some point the three sun spots as they are called likely were pre or proto planets that did the same the last one to go in is what some call Vulcan but it was on the verge of myth as did it or does it exist if it did it became a sun spot.

Now if the moon escaped and mercury becomes fuel and the moon strikes Mars it has enough water on it for an ocean and the excess heat means it'll "bloom" and terraform from the proto life forms all of that has been in contact with and evolve and adapt based on whatever adversities they encounter no different than "we" did. Then people will freak out feel they are losing control call that adaptation to adversity "evolution" and hide such truths with religion to maintain the status quo... and continually pretend they want us all to be unified as a species.

Shadow moves at the exact same speed as light does due to refractory and refraction processes that become cause for reflections light and shadow are all over the place it can even get trapped in one's eyes on the lens as it collects it like a radioscope and the visual wavelengths ping information to decode the environment like a fish finder or CD/DVD player... one "planck" distance off of light is the neutrino or what helps make up a sort of dark energy or sub atomic ferro sort of fluid that pulls bosons in their gravitation with weak and strong forces of wobbles them in excitation... creating "spin" on the sub atomic level in those that may or may not have in it excitation in much the same way what I mentioned about pole stars doing in relation to the larger solar body and what we term earth.

light would be what causes the wobble or wave and the neutrino the spin both of those making heat and the shadow cools and balances... like a rectifier... the interaction is likely best thought of as a transistor that becomes a carrier or information wave differentiating the knowable and the unknown on different levels of interaction and a great barrier or separation between life and not life in elemental groupings. The not life can store the information of life hence communication and storage devices like paint and cave wall or stone chisel on softer medium or clay impressions before dried or a particle gun adding and subtracting particles on the nano level.

What that does in the grand scheme of the subatomic particle level where such things ordered and paired etc without us manipulating it? Has yet to be seen in cause and effect on the larger or greater scale but the same could be said in what we call the local space of what fifteen some odd planets/planetoids? It just means we have been accelerating at about the same rate at both spectrums if you think of Voyager like the first subatomic particle to be placed as information on a larger seemingly open blanket we called interstellar space and the nanoparticle building kinda the same... like a dog cocking our leg we like to leave our marks there don't we? However when visiting the wildlife places we want to preserve? The policy is "leave no trace" as food for thought.

If one looks at the double-blind slit experiment about how particle react to observation and think nanobots behaving the same way you can understand why some got the gooseflesh and some got really really scared... as it means nanotech could theoretically be controlled in the same manner as particle behavior in the slit experiments... they may have proven the existence of such a thing at certain distances like Mezmer and his "animal magnetism" but like such things don't work on all people the same won't work with all particles... I don't know it's been quite a good awhile since I've updated my physical science and where we are with it.

I don't buy into the scientific woo novel nonsense as it leads very close to parapsychology and pseudo science... the woo I like is when some of that bunk science actually has bits and pieces of information albeit out of place; that clicks into other science to help it make sense... like Mesmer what was his contribution? magnetizing water; people may have done it first, but he's the unfortunate bastard that got his name stuck on it for those irritated that may have taught him that got no name or recognition for it. But it has to do with adding spin to water through magnetic means that changes its base properties, as PH and surface tension... there's a few abstracts on it like "dollop" theory; but there's not much in experimentation due to lack of research... but not necessarily interest and novel is the doorway to open it but also pollution is bound to occur in the hoopla that gets it better funded.

I'm still torn on if the moon stuck and then rolled or snapped off and rolled around... there should be like those marks you pointed out and moon features that calculate... sort of like the coastlines and pangea.

a reply to: Crowfoot

I'm still torn on if the moon stuck and then rolled or snapped off and rolled around... there should be like those marks you pointed out and moon features that calculate... sort of like the coastlines and pangea.

I didn't mention what the "foot" looked like, that left the foot print. But since you went there, so shall I....




Some of those circular dark Lunar Mares just so happen to have 300 mile radius, which is quite similar to the radius of the scars in the ocean bed.

The "Settled Science" states "The lunar maria (/ˈmɑːriə/; singular: mare /ˈmɑːreɪ/)[1] are large, dark, basaltic plains on Earth's Moon, formed by ancient asteroid impacts on the far side on the Moon that triggered volcanic activity on the opposite (near) side." I have no idea as to how they could conclude this as obviously no observations have been made of these meteorite impacts, or volcanoes on the moon. And since there are no observations of this, it isn't science. It is assumption based science. Very interesting "They were dubbed maria, Latin for 'seas', by early astronomers who mistook them for actual seas."
en.wikipedia.org...

If meteorites and volcanoes didn't create those dark circles, then what might have caused them?

The moon has a very dusty surface. Imagine taking a very dusty basket ball and dipping it into 2" of water. The water would wash the dust away and leave a darker, clean circular area. It would, for a time, leave residual water on the basket ball. Is water not found on the moon, in residual amounts? Now if you dipped that basket ball into water multiple times, would you not have multiple dark circles?

All this does not take into account the very odd discoveries about the moon.

When the Earth was Moonless

As I said, there is only one suspect. Damocles Sword is spherical and silver...

a reply to: All Seeing Eye

The "dusty" is why many say the moon landing was studio the lunar landers "pads" were spotless in the photographs... if you had a blaster on bottom kicking up tons of dust and debris to land some of that would have to be on the lander pads.... if you look at the size and weight difference in Apollo 11 and Chang'e 4? Chang'e 4's pads sunk some and picked up some debris... and it weighed only about 145Kg or 319lbs including a rover... Apollo 11 plus people even just the propellant weight to land it dwarfs that no sinking in or debris like the smaller Chang'e lander.

The social experiment of running "war of the worlds" without saying it was a social experiment or science fiction is sort of why we are stuck in ignorant mode as it became cause for mass "hysteria" and delusions and ever since then; The human mind was seen as too fail for "disclosure" at least that's my opinion.

a reply to: Crowfoot

The social experiment of running "war of the worlds" without saying it was a social experiment or science fiction is sort of why we are stuck in ignorant mode as it became cause for mass "hysteria" and delusions and ever since then; The human mind was seen as too fail for "disclosure" at least that's my opinion.

I have to agree with you on this point. De programing a population all in one step will gain the opposite effect. Though, the human mind is very resilient to change, learning the truth, if, the change, the new information, is gradual. One main complication is most of humanity have been intentionally dumbed down via drugs and other protocols. So, it would probably take a little more time, than expected. Drip drip drip.

a reply to: All Seeing Eye

No not dumbed down but it is expected that people bite the same bait other generations fell for or took as truth. Chasing stereotypes in real life will get you killed; Chasing it in entertainment will make you rich... there some that can't tell the difference in made up satirized hostilities that is made to entertain and make fun of ourselves and real life where people see it on TV and think it is all "reality" and start living that way... as art and freedom goes there is nothing wrong with that.

When there's no line between fantasy and reality is where the deprogramming needs to be as it is a major cause of mental illness and problems like people listening to music and the message is anti women where they are not seen with dignity and respect and then listening that day in and day out that person becomes a caricature of who and what they are listening too Not cultured but beneath it subculture... there's nothing wrong with sub-culture but when those messages are manufactured to create them and the people they emulate really aren't that way or like that just musical actors? Then one has to wonder if what gets called mind control just ceased to be in experiment phase and moved into mass implementation phase.

It's gotten to the point of; How do I know someone is lieing? Their mouth is moving. But when that occurs is when people suggest just "playing the game" be a sellout or basically becoming what the music has been making other people believe... the person selling that on the microphone IS that already otherwise it wouldn't be said and performed with such confidence; but to who or what? To the record company and money obviously... to sell cars to suggest drugs to keep a broken system revolving that makes people that have potential fall or fail out of being impressionable because blue collar jobs are seen to always need filling and nothing like an A grade student falling to being a D grade student because it's cool in order to accomplish that blue collar need or requirement in society.

Shifting that sort of pole when several generation have been stuck biting on that and not even seeing it; or seeing it and say yolo who cares? Just means irresponsible is what that system makes and the system made or designed for that means there are those educated that see it and know thats how all of that operates like a fish out of water? Will never see any of that as logical or rational behavior to continually breed ignorance as truth and keep capitalizing on the lie as if is sustainable.

But thats what has been made here buying and selling lies that lead people along until they feel wholly unfulfilled; and then is when the religious strike...but that's another dead end avenue because those people aren't guilty, the people that led them to live and believe a hollow existence was fulfilling are. There's A lot of people that will get in your way when you are authentically who you are and regret nothing about... and will work to try and make that freedom to be oneself as difficult as possible, but that's only jealousy etc from them not doing that themselves.

Many people are real in the world actually a majority of them; But stuck in one social group or another it gets difficult to see anything or anyone beyond that to know it.