Italian Institute Of Health Covid Death Adjustment.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Smigg

I'm not sure if you have noticed but the MSM and governments are in step with this façade, all in the same boat churning out false narrative and statistics....no ?

What I've noticed is there are many on ATS who want to push a false narrative regardless of the facts.

Yes I can see that!

a reply to: ScepticScot

You would know.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

You would know.

Mature response.

Doesn't at all make me think you are about 12.

How big is your dad?

a reply to: ScepticScot

Irony personified.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: imthegoat

Having comorbities does not mean that it wasn't covid that killed them.

It means they died with covid, and not because of Covid itself. That's the whole point of comorbidities. Meaning that if the comorbidities were not present in the 94% of deaths with comorbidities -- they wouldn't be dead. Obesity, diabetes, heart disease, congestive heart failure, copd, other chronic respiratory disease, flu, pneumonia -- they are all leading comorbidities in covid deaths. Most of those deaths could have easily been caused by the seasonal flu, and other non-pandemic illnesses.

If you're unable to understand that from a medical standpoint then quietly ignore this post and cease to respond.

The whole argument about "hospitals are at near capacity" with unvaccinated/covid patients is another one that gets me. Hospitals are always running at capacity or as close to as possible. It's a business. Running a hospital on the fewest amount of patients possible = not a sustainable business model. The reality the pro-vaccine/mask/biden/dem/progressive has got to have shifted into an alternate dimension or some sh!t. I don't understand it.

originally posted by: imthegoat

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: imthegoat

Having comorbities does not mean that it wasn't covid that killed them.

It means they died with covid, and not because of Covid itself. That's the whole point of comorbidities. Meaning that if the comorbidities were not present in the 94% of deaths with comorbidities -- they wouldn't be dead. Obesity, diabetes, heart disease, congestive heart failure, copd, other chronic respiratory disease, flu, pneumonia -- they are all leading comorbidities in covid deaths. Most of those deaths could have easily been caused by the seasonal flu, and other non-pandemic illnesses.

If you're unable to understand that from a medical standpoint then quietly ignore this post and cease to respond.

The whole argument about "hospitals are at near capacity" with unvaccinated/covid patients is another one that gets me. Hospitals are always running at capacity or as close to as possible. It's a business. Running a hospital on the fewest amount of patients possible = not a sustainable business model. The reality the pro-vaccine/mask/biden/dem/progressive has got to have shifted into an alternate dimension or some sh!t. I don't understand it.

That's not what comorbites means.

www.cdc.gov...

Now with regard to the other 94% which mentioned other diseases or conditions, it’s important to understand that in the overwhelming majority of these cases the additional diseases or conditions are either complications of COVID-19 – they are in the causal pathway, like pneumonia or respiratory distress – or they’re reported in Part Two as contributing conditions. So for about 92% of the deaths involving COVID-19 that mention other conditions –  91 or 92% – the certifiers indicated that COVID-19 is the primary or underlying cause.  This is not a situation where the certifier is writing all of the diseases that the person had equally; they’re actually reporting it in this causal sequence.  And in the overwhelming majority of cases, COVID-19 has been indicated as the cause of the death.  It’s the cause that started that causal pathway, that causal sequence leading to death.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Doesn't matter how many times its claimed, having comorbidities doesn't mean they didn't die from covid.

factcheck.afp.com...

Does that statement apply to complications after "vaccination" as well?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I'm getting the popcorn ready for the response to this spanner in the works.

You'll be dizzy from the amount of spin about to come your way.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Doesn't matter how many times its claimed, having comorbidities doesn't mean they didn't die from covid.

factcheck.afp.com...

Does that statement apply to complications after "vaccination" as well?

Yes.

How many death certificates have vaccination listed as cause of death?

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: burdman30ott6

I'm getting the popcorn ready for the response to this spanner in the works.

You'll be dizzy from the amount of spin about to come your way.

Sweet or salted?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Doesn't matter how many times its claimed, having comorbidities doesn't mean they didn't die from covid.

factcheck.afp.com...

Does that statement apply to complications after "vaccination" as well?

Yes.

How many death certificates have vaccination listed as cause of death?

Zero... but only because the same medical authorities who claim comorbidities and pre-existing conditions don't matter where COVID deaths are concerned, all are to be blamed on COVID, are the same authorities who say the vaccines don't actually cause deaths, the recipient's pre-existing conditions or comorbidities are to blame.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: imthegoat

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: imthegoat

Having comorbities does not mean that it wasn't covid that killed them.

It means they died with covid, and not because of Covid itself. That's the whole point of comorbidities. Meaning that if the comorbidities were not present in the 94% of deaths with comorbidities -- they wouldn't be dead. Obesity, diabetes, heart disease, congestive heart failure, copd, other chronic respiratory disease, flu, pneumonia -- they are all leading comorbidities in covid deaths. Most of those deaths could have easily been caused by the seasonal flu, and other non-pandemic illnesses.

If you're unable to understand that from a medical standpoint then quietly ignore this post and cease to respond.

The whole argument about "hospitals are at near capacity" with unvaccinated/covid patients is another one that gets me. Hospitals are always running at capacity or as close to as possible. It's a business. Running a hospital on the fewest amount of patients possible = not a sustainable business model. The reality the pro-vaccine/mask/biden/dem/progressive has got to have shifted into an alternate dimension or some sh!t. I don't understand it.

That's not what comorbites means.

www.cdc.gov...


Now with regard to the other 94% which mentioned other diseases or conditions, it’s important to understand that in the overwhelming majority of these cases the additional diseases or conditions are either complications of COVID-19 – they are in the causal pathway, like pneumonia or respiratory distress – or they’re reported in Part Two as contributing conditions. So for about 92% of the deaths involving COVID-19 that mention other conditions –  91 or 92% – the certifiers indicated that COVID-19 is the primary or underlying cause.  This is not a situation where the certifier is writing all of the diseases that the person had equally; they’re actually reporting it in this causal sequence.  And in the overwhelming majority of cases, COVID-19 has been indicated as the cause of the death.  It’s the cause that started that causal pathway, that causal sequence leading to death.

That's a intriguing take on the data, I suppose, but that doesn't make it accurate. How does Covid kill someone who has been shot in the head? Just wondering. Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, all of the comorbidities they deemed "caused by covid" were prevalent in the patients before covid? Or did someone get covid and magically gain 200lbs? Do you really think a 400lb 16yo is "otherwise healthy"?

Here, let's use some of the CDC's own website for you:

Obesity Worsens Outcomes from COVID-19
Adults with excess weight are at even greater risk during the COVID-19 pandemic:

Having obesity increases the risk of severe illness from COVID-19. People who are overweight may also be at increased risk.
Having obesity may triple the risk of hospitalization due to a COVID-19 infection.
Obesity is linked to impaired immune function.2,3
Obesity decreases lung capacity and reserve and can make ventilation more difficult.4
A study of COVID-19 cases suggests that risks of hospitalization, intensive care unit admission, invasive mechanical ventilation, and death are higher with increasing BMI.5
The increased risk for hospitalization or death was particularly pronounced in those under age 65. 5
More than 900,000 adult COVID-19 hospitalizations occurred in the United States between the beginning of the pandemic and November 18, 2020. Models estimate that 271,800 (30.2%) of these hospitalizations were attributed to obesity.6

Children diagnosed with obesity may suffer worse outcomes from COVID-19. In a study of COVID-19 cases in patients aged 18 years and younger, having obesity was associated with a 3.07 times higher risk of hospitalization and a 1.42 times higher risk of severe illness (intensive care unit admission, invasive mechanical ventilation, or death) when hospitalized.7

Now go extrapolate some data, find out how many and which comorbidities come with Obesity, and use your cute little brain to put the datasets together and come to a conclusion. The comorbidities are the problems, the underlying conditions people have, not covid in and of itself. It does nothing but accelerate the process -- throwing gas on an already burning fire. How you can credit covid for it all is beyond me. Covid is not causing these underlying conditions -- pneumonia I can accept -- everything else? No.

Mind you I am only focusing on Obesity. That's not including every other underlying condition attributed to covid deaths.

originally posted by: imthegoat

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: imthegoat

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: imthegoat

Having comorbities does not mean that it wasn't covid that killed them.

It means they died with covid, and not because of Covid itself. That's the whole point of comorbidities. Meaning that if the comorbidities were not present in the 94% of deaths with comorbidities -- they wouldn't be dead. Obesity, diabetes, heart disease, congestive heart failure, copd, other chronic respiratory disease, flu, pneumonia -- they are all leading comorbidities in covid deaths. Most of those deaths could have easily been caused by the seasonal flu, and other non-pandemic illnesses.

If you're unable to understand that from a medical standpoint then quietly ignore this post and cease to respond.

The whole argument about "hospitals are at near capacity" with unvaccinated/covid patients is another one that gets me. Hospitals are always running at capacity or as close to as possible. It's a business. Running a hospital on the fewest amount of patients possible = not a sustainable business model. The reality the pro-vaccine/mask/biden/dem/progressive has got to have shifted into an alternate dimension or some sh!t. I don't understand it.

That's not what comorbites means.

www.cdc.gov...


Now with regard to the other 94% which mentioned other diseases or conditions, it’s important to understand that in the overwhelming majority of these cases the additional diseases or conditions are either complications of COVID-19 – they are in the causal pathway, like pneumonia or respiratory distress – or they’re reported in Part Two as contributing conditions. So for about 92% of the deaths involving COVID-19 that mention other conditions –  91 or 92% – the certifiers indicated that COVID-19 is the primary or underlying cause.  This is not a situation where the certifier is writing all of the diseases that the person had equally; they’re actually reporting it in this causal sequence.  And in the overwhelming majority of cases, COVID-19 has been indicated as the cause of the death.  It’s the cause that started that causal pathway, that causal sequence leading to death.

That's a intriguing take on the data, I suppose, but that doesn't make it accurate. How does Covid kill someone who has been shot in the head? Just wondering. Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, all of the comorbidities they deemed "caused by covid" were prevalent in the patients before covid? Or did someone get covid and magically gain 200lbs? Do you really think a 400lb 16yo is "otherwise healthy"?

Here, let's use some of the CDC's own website for you:

Obesity Worsens Outcomes from COVID-19
Adults with excess weight are at even greater risk during the COVID-19 pandemic:

Having obesity increases the risk of severe illness from COVID-19. People who are overweight may also be at increased risk.
Having obesity may triple the risk of hospitalization due to a COVID-19 infection.
Obesity is linked to impaired immune function.2,3
Obesity decreases lung capacity and reserve and can make ventilation more difficult.4
A study of COVID-19 cases suggests that risks of hospitalization, intensive care unit admission, invasive mechanical ventilation, and death are higher with increasing BMI.5
The increased risk for hospitalization or death was particularly pronounced in those under age 65. 5
More than 900,000 adult COVID-19 hospitalizations occurred in the United States between the beginning of the pandemic and November 18, 2020. Models estimate that 271,800 (30.2%) of these hospitalizations were attributed to obesity.6

Children diagnosed with obesity may suffer worse outcomes from COVID-19. In a study of COVID-19 cases in patients aged 18 years and younger, having obesity was associated with a 3.07 times higher risk of hospitalization and a 1.42 times higher risk of severe illness (intensive care unit admission, invasive mechanical ventilation, or death) when hospitalized.7

Now go extrapolate some data, find out how many and which comorbidities come with Obesity, and use your cute little brain to put the datasets together and come to a conclusion. The comorbidities are the problems, the underlying conditions people have, not covid in and of itself. It does nothing but accelerate the process -- throwing gas on an already burning fire. How you can credit covid for it all is beyond me. Covid is not causing these underlying conditions -- pneumonia I can accept -- everything else? No.

Why do you think you know more about what killed these people than the medical professionals who issued the death certificates?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Doesn't matter how many times its claimed, having comorbidities doesn't mean they didn't die from covid.

factcheck.afp.com...

Does that statement apply to complications after "vaccination" as well?

Yes.

How many death certificates have vaccination listed as cause of death?

Zero... but only because the same medical authorities who claim comorbidities and pre-existing conditions don't matter where COVID deaths are concerned, all are to be blamed on COVID, are the same authorities who say the vaccines don't actually cause deaths, the recipient's pre-existing conditions or comorbidities are to blame.

Same question as above.

Why do you think you know more about what killed these people than the medical professionals who issued the death certificates?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: imthegoat

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: imthegoat

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: imthegoat

Having comorbities does not mean that it wasn't covid that killed them.

It means they died with covid, and not because of Covid itself. That's the whole point of comorbidities. Meaning that if the comorbidities were not present in the 94% of deaths with comorbidities -- they wouldn't be dead. Obesity, diabetes, heart disease, congestive heart failure, copd, other chronic respiratory disease, flu, pneumonia -- they are all leading comorbidities in covid deaths. Most of those deaths could have easily been caused by the seasonal flu, and other non-pandemic illnesses.

If you're unable to understand that from a medical standpoint then quietly ignore this post and cease to respond.

The whole argument about "hospitals are at near capacity" with unvaccinated/covid patients is another one that gets me. Hospitals are always running at capacity or as close to as possible. It's a business. Running a hospital on the fewest amount of patients possible = not a sustainable business model. The reality the pro-vaccine/mask/biden/dem/progressive has got to have shifted into an alternate dimension or some sh!t. I don't understand it.

That's not what comorbites means.

www.cdc.gov...


Now with regard to the other 94% which mentioned other diseases or conditions, it’s important to understand that in the overwhelming majority of these cases the additional diseases or conditions are either complications of COVID-19 – they are in the causal pathway, like pneumonia or respiratory distress – or they’re reported in Part Two as contributing conditions. So for about 92% of the deaths involving COVID-19 that mention other conditions –  91 or 92% – the certifiers indicated that COVID-19 is the primary or underlying cause.  This is not a situation where the certifier is writing all of the diseases that the person had equally; they’re actually reporting it in this causal sequence.  And in the overwhelming majority of cases, COVID-19 has been indicated as the cause of the death.  It’s the cause that started that causal pathway, that causal sequence leading to death.

That's a intriguing take on the data, I suppose, but that doesn't make it accurate. How does Covid kill someone who has been shot in the head? Just wondering. Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, all of the comorbidities they deemed "caused by covid" were prevalent in the patients before covid? Or did someone get covid and magically gain 200lbs? Do you really think a 400lb 16yo is "otherwise healthy"?

Here, let's use some of the CDC's own website for you:

Obesity Worsens Outcomes from COVID-19
Adults with excess weight are at even greater risk during the COVID-19 pandemic:

Having obesity increases the risk of severe illness from COVID-19. People who are overweight may also be at increased risk.
Having obesity may triple the risk of hospitalization due to a COVID-19 infection.
Obesity is linked to impaired immune function.2,3
Obesity decreases lung capacity and reserve and can make ventilation more difficult.4
A study of COVID-19 cases suggests that risks of hospitalization, intensive care unit admission, invasive mechanical ventilation, and death are higher with increasing BMI.5
The increased risk for hospitalization or death was particularly pronounced in those under age 65. 5
More than 900,000 adult COVID-19 hospitalizations occurred in the United States between the beginning of the pandemic and November 18, 2020. Models estimate that 271,800 (30.2%) of these hospitalizations were attributed to obesity.6

Children diagnosed with obesity may suffer worse outcomes from COVID-19. In a study of COVID-19 cases in patients aged 18 years and younger, having obesity was associated with a 3.07 times higher risk of hospitalization and a 1.42 times higher risk of severe illness (intensive care unit admission, invasive mechanical ventilation, or death) when hospitalized.7

Now go extrapolate some data, find out how many and which comorbidities come with Obesity, and use your cute little brain to put the datasets together and come to a conclusion. The comorbidities are the problems, the underlying conditions people have, not covid in and of itself. It does nothing but accelerate the process -- throwing gas on an already burning fire. How you can credit covid for it all is beyond me. Covid is not causing these underlying conditions -- pneumonia I can accept -- everything else? No.

Why do you think you know more about what killed these people than the medical professionals who issued the death certificates?

Because if you're smart enough to read you can easily understand that Doctor's were preemptively putting covid on the death certificates if they were previously diagnosed with such -- leaving the medical examiners and autopsies performed to be the actual deciding factor in cause of death. As per usual when it comes to determining actual cause of death, yeah? Common sense and logic bud.

What happened to 'herd immunity'? That's what we're seeing happening in Florida. For some reason it won't work anywhere else even though thats ALL they bitched about for the first 6 months? Because it's completely negated by the vaccine. If you've had covid, and get the vaccine anyway, guess what? Your antibodies are non-existent now. Your protection is going to wear off between 4-6 months, and your chances of adverse effects from the vaccine are increased. What about A.D.E's? Plenty of signs that's becoming an issue too, and even your Lord Fauci warned about that in the beginning. That's Antibody Dependant Enhancement -- aka what has possibly created the Delta variant, and what could possibly create more. I think you're sceptic of the wrong things, friend.

a reply to: Grenade
Why are you clearly muddying the waters. The figures you are intimating are for ALL deaths in the England and Wales. Look at your links and they clearly state "Provisional counts of the number of deaths registered in England and Wales, including deaths involving coronavirus (Covid 19)". IE. there is covid deaths BUT they're are others not covid.
If you want to quote covid deaths then week ending 22 October there were 974 deaths, the week before 15 October there were 892 deaths. From one week to the next that was an increase of 82. And that was in the whole of the UK not just England and Wales.

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: chr0naut

I don't trust the MSM's reportage

Actually you do.
And bad.
I was in the hospital here for checkups for nearly 2 years.
It was a ghosttown.
I was watching the news on my phone, from the empty hospital...about the hospital I WAS SITTING IN being overrun.
I don't need you or any other source to confirm

So, you imagine that a hospital would allow other patients to intermingle with quarantined and infectious ones?

LOL

originally posted by: imthegoat

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: chr0naut

I remember similar scenes and rhetoric in the UK press.

Not what i seen when i went to A+E, i was the only person there and the wards were empty.

In fact i have a friend who works at Hairmyres Hospital in Scotland, according to him the critical care wards had the most available beds they've had in years however the morgues were full due to people dying at home, afraid to seek hospital care. Not to mention the huge increase in drug related deaths and suicides.

Overall deaths are higher than the 5 year average week on week in the UK since the vaccination program began, even comparative to the height of the pandemic when we had no vaccinations.

The weekly numbers of infected in the UK have risen up until a a peak of 5.7 million (that's a lot of cases in a week) in the week of 26th April 2021 and the numbers have been falling, gradually, ever since. With such numbers new infections, it is obvious why there would be more people since last year.

I think your numbers or wrong or I'm misunderstanding what you're conveying. UK numbers in April were some of the lowest since July 2020. Funny enough, the uptick in cases came after the 6th month mark since the vaccine started. It was rolled out in the UK in Dec 2020. They started rising in the beginning of June, and by July it was almost 30,000-50,000 cases a day. Perfectly in line with the Swedish study I posted above. Can be seen here

Extrapolate the data and compare to study out of Sweden. Booster shots every 6 months coming in no time. It will be an annual booster shot just like the flu.

You are entirely correct and I was wrong. I had inadvertently toggled the wrong figures on the Johns Hopkins COVID-19 dashboard site.

Everyone, please accept my apologies as those numbers I provided in that previous post were way off. It was my mistake.

a reply to: crayzeed

I suggest you read my post properly and try again.

You've completely taken it out of context.

I explicitly state several times those figures are for overall deaths, i also differentiate when referring to Covid related deaths.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: chr0naut

Do you actually believe the nonsense you peddle or is it 100% trolling?

The numbers I quoted in that post were in error and are wrong, however, it is standard procedure in hospitals to isolate infectious patients, and the medical staff who attend them.

Do you believe that the only people who are doing anything active to fight COVID-19 are all evil and wrong, and that everyone who downplays the problem and does absolutely nothing to counter the disease, and tells others to do so, are virtuous?