The Crypto Warning

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: rounda

It’s called trolling.

Fair enough, I’ll keep my fake money.

This selfish egotistical maniac would have genuinely sent you some bitcoin in an attempt to show you why it’s not useless.

If we’re talking computer technology then yes, ego or not based on our conversation I have more experience and knowledge of the industry.

Newsflash: I don’t care what you think.

Based on our conversations, its clear you have zero knowledge of the industry... Since you haven't shared ANY knowledge of block chain or crypto currency.

All you've done is claim you've made money off it. That's it.

Despite what you might think i don't want to see anyone miss out or find themselves in poverty. For example if hard times hit you can DM me and even as a stranger i'd be more than willing to help you financially, you and anyone else i can afford to help.

Oh, so now you think I'm poor.

Got it. MY ego. Lmao.

originally posted by: sraven
hyperinflation isn't just prices going up

hyperinflation is realizing the money is not worth anything and trying to get rid of it in exchange for something of value.

crypto fits this market sector perfectly.
the existence of crypto is an indicator of hyperinflation.

that is what occurred to me in the middle of my money making frenzy

Then why has the price of bitcoin dropped 30% since November's inflation report?

It's almost as if bitcoin is wholly reliant on fiat currency.

a reply to: rounda

No, you just lack reading comprehension, I said IF you needed help I would offer it, despite the attitude.

Ask any questions you like about the blockchain, I’m no expert however I do have qualifications and experience within the computing industry. I’m sure other members without their head buried in the sand can confirm that fact.

BSc Computing
HND Computing: Software Development
HNC Computer Technology with Diagnostics
ECS Advanced Datacomms Specialist
C&G L2 Communications Cabling (Copper)
C&G L2 Communications Cabling (Fibre Optic)
CNIT
CTPM

What about you?

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: rounda

No, you just lack reading comprehension, I said IF you needed help I would offer it, despite the attitude.

Ask any questions you like about the blockchain, I’m no expert however I do have qualifications and experience within the computing industry. I’m sure other members without their head buried in the sand can confirm that fact.

BSc Computing
HND Computing: Software Development
HNC Computer Technology with Diagnostics
ECS Advanced Datacomms Specialist
C&G L2 Communications Cabling (Copper)
C&G L2 Communications Cabling (Fibre Optic)
CNIT
CTPM

What about you?

Wow that's a lot of abbreviations.

Looks like you work in a data center.

I did that about 10 years ago, for a major university while holding all the Microsoft certs.

I also ran copper and fiber for a regional ISP.

Been at various startups in silicon valley in a variety of positions, some successful, some not.

Been a DBA for a major insurance company, and managed the migration from local infrastructure to a hybrid on premesis/cloud infrastructure. Had all the AWS certs then.

Now, I'm a software engineer at a fortune 500 company working on implementing --- wait for it --- block chain infrastructure.

You know what your certifications are? Pieces of paper.

Not a single one of them has anything to do with block chain.

So how about instead of rattling off some network certifications and thinking you know more about crypto than everyone else, why don't you share some of your knowledge about crypto, outside of "I made some money so I'm an expert."

a reply to: rounda

So you work in an industry you expect to fail and have no faith in. Good career choice. Strange with such a background your posting history doesn't have any technical or computing relevance.

Again, what would you like to know?

No, i don't work in a data centre, i lead a network installation team but have previously worked as an analyst/consultant, project manager, programmer for pretty much every major EPOS company in the UK.

Your attitude absolutely stinks, if you want to continue the conversation re-adjust it or expect no further correspondence from me, i don't have time for keyboard warriors. Once again you failed to read my post properly and jumped on the offensive, i clearly stated IM NO EXPERT IN BLOCKCHAIN, i do however understand network infrastructure and computer hardware.

You're the one suddenly claiming to be an expert in the industry with nothing to back it up.

a reply to: Grenade

It's strange that the 15 or so threads I've participated in, none of which have to do with the tech industry, make no mention of my career? Wow, that's odd.

You realize blockchain can be implemented without implementing a cryptocurrency, right? You do realize there's a difference, right?

Oh, I get it... you list a bunch of technical certifications that have nothing to with blockchain, expecting nobody will know the difference, then when you get called out on it, you run away with your tail between your legs.

You STILL havent discussed anything having to do with crypto or the tech behind it. The only thing you've said is you've made money from it.

So put up or shut up.

a reply to: rounda

Again, what would you like to know?

Constant insults are boring.

If you have a technical question i'll try to answer it to the best of my ability.

As for crypto, i try to do due diligence on all projects before investing in the ones which i find to have good fundamentals and a technical niche. Yes, i'm aware of the difference between blockchain and crypto, i've been investing and posting on the subject on this forum for years. Unlike you who's popped up in this thread and suddenly are a guru who works in the industry. I'm calling BS.

I'd rather not continue to run in circles with you. Clearly you have a chip on your shoulder, go get laid even if you have to pay for it, might chill you out a little.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: rounda

Again, what would you like to know?

Constant insults are boring.

If you have a technical question i'll try to answer it to the best of my ability.

As for crypto, i try to do due diligence on all projects before investing in the ones which i find to have good fundamentals and a technical niche. Yes, i'm aware of the difference between blockchain and crypto, i've been investing and posting on the subject on this forum for years. Unlike you who's popped up in this thread and suddenly are a guru who works in the industry. I'm calling BS.

I'd rather not continue to run in circles with you. Clearly you have a chip on your shoulder, go get laid even if you have to pay for it, might chill you out a little.

Call all the BS you want. I don't give a f#. The only chip I have on my shoulder is all the bandwagon advocates of cryptocurrency who know nothing about it.

You're not adding anything to the discussion, except for "I made money from it." Then saying nonsense like "clearly I know more about it than you."

Prove you know more about it than me, since I've already discussed the problems it claims to, and spectacularly fails at, addressing. Discuss ANYTHING having to do with the tech. Discuss ANYTHING having to do with the problems cryptocurrency fails to solve. Or the big one nobody seems to even be aware of, discuss why having an immutable ledger is good...

here's a hint: in the supply chain piece of the major company I work for, ensuring transactional history between the supplier and our company is useful... even if I, personally, as someone with 25 years of experience in the tech sector, think it can be done more efficiently using database shards and/or replication.

And, food for thought: the immutable ledger can be implemented without a "currency," which is a fancy word for "transaction token."

a reply to: rounda

For a start an immutable ledger will log and time stamp each and every transaction, there's obvious advantages of this method when it comes to fraud, both sides of any mutual transaction are individually responsible for signing and so far unbreakable encryption with logging to a publicly available ledger with multiple nodes confirming the blocks, ensuring no alteration or modification of the data.

Algorithmic verification of all blocks which also include an image of the previous ensure system integrity as the blockchain is unchangeable.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: rounda

For a start an immutable ledger will log and time stamp each and every transaction, there's obvious advantages of this method when it comes to fraud, both sides of any mutual transaction are individually responsible for signing and so far unbreakable encryption with logging to a publicly available ledger with multiple nodes confirming the blocks, ensuring no alteration or modification of the data.

Algorithmic verification of all blocks which also include an image of the previous ensure system integrity as the blockchain is unchangeable.

And why might that be a bad thing if, say for instance, anonymity is what you're after, especially as governments begin implementing national crypto currencies?

And why might having the entire record of corporate transactional data be inefficient if I have multiple locations nationwide, and each of them is required to keep that transactional history? Should the location the transaction is made also be in part responsible for verifying that transaction as a full node, or should it be a partial node responsible for making that transaction, and then should there be full nodes regionally to handle verifying those transactions?

How do you handle processing and verifying transactions as that record gets larger and larger? Maybe my company can't wait an hour for a transaction to be verified, like we see with bitcoin.

Why not just implement replicated databases regionally, and each location implements a database shard?

What is the benefit block chain provides over a database?

a reply to: rounda

You might think centralised power and a middle man taking a cut of each transaction is a good thing, i respectfully disagree. Bitcoin essentially allows for direct peer to peer exchange of assets, granted those transactions are traceable however it also ensures long term stability of a finite cap and in theory should negate inflation.

Sure, i agree the system can be abused, i'm under no illusion that bitcoin is somehow perfect. It is however a better store of value and a more independent system comparatively to central bank printed fiat who lets be honest manipulate the markets for their own and corporate gain. I think eventually you will have a tertiary layer below the bitcoin chain for day to day transactions, most likely funded by your bitcoin wallet and held in escrow with more efficient transaction speed and cost. There could also very well be a host of other blockchain based tokens to facilitate more tailored functionality, i see bitcoin as a store of value, akin to gold, not a day to day transactional currency.

We probably got off on the wrong foot, i agree with some of what you suggest, i think we just have a brusque and aggressive debating technique. Never challenge or suggest a Scotsman is stupid while he's half way through a bottle of Glenmorangie. I just don't understand people who write off crypto, it has plenty of benefit and function. Irks me even more when folk are happy to accept CBDC's but call decentralised projects 'electronic woo'. Like it or not, digital currency is the future of finance.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: rounda

You might think centralised power and a middle man taking a cut of each transaction is a good thing, i respectfully disagree. Bitcoin essentially allows for direct peer to peer exchange of assets, granted those transactions are traceable however it also ensures long term stability of a finite cap and in theory should negate inflation.

Sure, i agree the system can be abused, i'm under no illusion that bitcoin is somehow perfect. It is however a better store of value and a more independent system comparatively to central bank printed fiat who lets be honest manipulate the markets for their own and corporate gain. I think eventually you will have a tertiary layer below the bitcoin chain for day to day transactions, most likely funded by your bitcoin wallet and held in escrow with more efficient transaction speed and cost. There could also very well be a host of other blockchain based tokens to facilitate more tailored functionality, i see bitcoin as a store of value, akin to gold, not a day to day transactional currency.

We probably got off on the wrong foot, i agree with some of what you suggest, i think we just have a brusque and aggressive debating technique. Never challenge or suggest a Scotsman is stupid while he's half way through a bottle of Glenmorangie. I just don't understand people who write off crypto, it has plenty of benefit and function. Irks me even more when folk are happy to accept CBDC's but call decentralised projects 'electronic woo'. Like it or not, digital currency is the future of finance.

I agree that decentralization is cryptos biggest benefit, as I have said numerous times in this thread.

But in the real world, you need a centralized exchange in order to obtain crypto, which defeats the whole purpose of a decentralized currency.

Not only are you paying a transaction fee to the miners, but also the exchange.

That's worse than a bank.

I think banks are evil. But they're a necessary evil. At least with a bank, my money is insured and my accounts are protected. And there's a governing body that at least attempts to limit market manipulation to protect the consumer.

And while the future is crypto currency, it will be centralized and controlled by the government. They're going to to know what you buy, when and where you bought it, how much you spent, and any other information associated with the transaction.

A fundamental violation of privacy, that would normally require a warrant to obtain.

originally posted by: rounda
You can transfer it to whoever you want, it will cost substantially more to do so, and it will take longer to do so...

How many seconds/minutes is 'substantially more'?

If you lose your password, you lose your wallet...

Don't lose your passphrase.

If someone figures out your password and transfers all your crypto, you're out of luck because there's no centralized bank to insure it.

Be smart, use MFA.

Oh yea, and to actually convert your fiat into crypto, you need some sort of centralized exchange...

Ummm... yeah, nothing is perfect... so?

oops.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
Bro, the value is still first calculated in DOLLARS.

Because their site is in the USA, and they use the USD as their unit of account.

Go to their UK site and the value is first calculated in pounds. So what?

originally posted by: tanstaafl
Because their site is in the USA, and they use the USD as their unit of account.

Go to their UK site and the value is first calculated in pounds. So what?

The point is still the same, it needs to be converted to an actual currency to be used. Dollars, pounds, yen, whatever.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: rounda
You can transfer it to whoever you want, it will cost substantially more to do so, and it will take longer to do so...

How many seconds/minutes is 'substantially more'?

If you lose your password, you lose your wallet...

Don't lose your passphrase.

If someone figures out your password and transfers all your crypto, you're out of luck because there's no centralized bank to insure it.

Be smart, use MFA.

Oh yea, and to actually convert your fiat into crypto, you need some sort of centralized exchange...

Ummm... yeah, nothing is perfect... so?

oops.

1. Well, considering I can transfer money to someone INSTANTLY using any number of apps, and Bitcoin takes 30 minutes for the block to be verified in the best of circumstances..... you go into a store to buy something, and guess what? You can't leave with whatever you bought because the merchant has to wait for the block to be verified. Makes sense. But my debit card or Visa works instantly. Weird.

2. That's nice. I have no problem with my passwords... but hate to break it to you, but a ton of people do... hence the entire industry built around password manager software.

3. Already discussed this. It's not as secure as you think it is. So I guess everyone should have a dongle, which is just another device to lose, and requires you to be at a computer. Which means you lose the convenience of being able to use the currency out in the world...

4. Oh, got it. "Nothing is perfect" when it comes to crypto, but not traditional banking. You're willing to lose the convenience and security you get from traditional banking, and give up decentralization -- the biggest benefit of crypto -- just for the h#ll of it.

oops.

originally posted by: rounda
1. Well, considering I can transfer money to someone INSTANTLY using any number of apps, and Bitcoin takes 30 minutes for the block to be verified in the best of circumstances.

The cost for BTC transactions (not the time, the actual cost) was my bige objection to BTC. Then I learned about Lightning.

Think of BTC as the settlement provider - bank wires, etc.

Lightning is what will be used for near instantaneous transactions, including being cost effective for microtransactions.

It is still new, and they are working on the kinks, but it is getting close from everything I've read.

you go into a store to buy something, and guess what? You can't leave with whatever you bought because the merchant has to wait for the block to be verified. Makes sense. But my debit card or Visa works instantly. Weird.

Not weird... maybe you are not aware, but BTC isn't intended to be used directly for instantaneous microtransactions. See above.

2. That's nice. I have no problem with my passwords... but hate to break it to you, but a ton of people do... hence the entire industry built around password manager software.

That's nice. People who cannot manage passwords should use their tried and true trusted third parties (banks/the Federal Reserve banking system).

One of the motivations for the creation of BTC was actually to avoid the 'trusted third party' concept. You knew that, right?

It's not as secure as you think it is.

Yeah, maybe - and I also know that it's nowhere near as insecure as you seem to think it is.

So I guess everyone should have a dongle, which is just another device to lose, and requires you to be at a computer. Which means you lose the convenience of being able to use the currency out in the world...

Not at all, just keep your large stash in a very secure cold card or something similar, and your walking around money on your phone.

4. Oh, got it. "Nothing is perfect" when it comes to crypto, but not traditional banking. You're willing to lose the convenience and security you get from traditional banking,

Nope. Not sure where you got that from...

and give up decentralization -- the biggest benefit of crypto -- just for the h#ll of it.

oops.

Wtf are you talking about now?

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: rounda
1. Well, considering I can transfer money to someone INSTANTLY using any number of apps, and Bitcoin takes 30 minutes for the block to be verified in the best of circumstances.

The cost for BTC transactions (not the time, the actual cost) was my bige objection to BTC. Then I learned about Lightning.

Think of BTC as the settlement provider - bank wires, etc.

Lightning is what will be used for near instantaneous transactions, including being cost effective for microtransactions.

It is still new, and they are working on the kinks, but it is getting close from everything I've read.

you go into a store to buy something, and guess what? You can't leave with whatever you bought because the merchant has to wait for the block to be verified. Makes sense. But my debit card or Visa works instantly. Weird.

Not weird... maybe you are not aware, but BTC isn't intended to be used directly for instantaneous microtransactions. See above.

2. That's nice. I have no problem with my passwords... but hate to break it to you, but a ton of people do... hence the entire industry built around password manager software.

That's nice. People who cannot manage passwords should use their tried and true trusted third parties (banks/the Federal Reserve banking system).

One of the motivations for the creation of BTC was actually to avoid the 'trusted third party' concept. You knew that, right?

It's not as secure as you think it is.

Yeah, maybe - and I also know that it's nowhere near as insecure as you seem to think it is.

So I guess everyone should have a dongle, which is just another device to lose, and requires you to be at a computer. Which means you lose the convenience of being able to use the currency out in the world...

Not at all, just keep your large stash in a very secure cold card or something similar, and your walking around money on your phone.

4. Oh, got it. "Nothing is perfect" when it comes to crypto, but not traditional banking. You're willing to lose the convenience and security you get from traditional banking,

Nope. Not sure where you got that from...

and give up decentralization -- the biggest benefit of crypto -- just for the h#ll of it.

oops.

Wtf are you talking about now?

1. Why would I use Lightning over any of the 100s of other cryptos that do the same thing? If those transactions occur off the chain, whats the point of the chain?

2. Literally on the bitcoin website:

- Fast peer-to-peer transactions - Worldwide payments - Low processing fees

Meanwhile, I can transfer money to anyone, anywhere, instantaneously, through any number of apps. And Visa is accepted virtually everywhere....

3. Yes, I did know that. And how does that work, exactly? What happens when you exchange your cash through a centralized exchange? Or how about the wallet provider you've chosen? Or how about your Lightning performing transactions off the chain? Those seem like third parties.... ones you need to "trust."

4. Actually, it is as insecure as I think it is. There was, and is, a thing called "social engineering" that has led to hacks of the biggest systems on the planet. Let's say you use 2fa on your cell phone... you think some college kid working at a cell phone store has the capability of protecting your info? It's pretty simple to make a new sim card...

5. Exactly what I said. You're willing to give up everything a regulated industry provides for some perceived benefits that aren't actually achieved, and your excuse is "nothing's perfect," yet all those benefits are already achieved with existing systems already in place, which you want to replace because they're not perfect.

Look, I'm still learning, and about as far from an expert as you can get, but you seem to be confused specifically about what, exactly BTC is - and more importantly, what it isn't.

Fyi, I'm engaging in conversations like this one as part of a learning process, and my understanding is quite fluid, although it is slowly consolidating...

Comments inline below...

originally posted by: rounda
in reply to: tanstaafl

1. Why would I use Lightning over any of the 100s of other cryptos that do the same thing?

Use whatever you want for every day transactions, why do you think I care?

Personally, I would never, ever, even consider using BTC for everyday transactions.

Why would I - why would anyone - use an appreciating asset for everyday purchases, when you can use a depreciating currency?

If those transactions occur off the chain, whats the point of the chain?

Who said they occur off the chain? What does that mean?

2. Literally on the bitcoin website:

"Fast peer-to-peer transactions - Worldwide payments - Low processing fees"

Yes, and within the well known limitations of the system, that statement is 100% true.

However...

Meanwhile, I can transfer money to anyone, anywhere, instantaneously, through any number of apps. And Visa is accepted virtually everywhere....

Yes, you can, but you seem to believe that BTC is intended to be the same/equivalent/replacement for everyday currency and/or microtransactions. It isn't...

3. Yes, I did know that. And how does that work, exactly? What happens when you exchange your cash through a centralized exchange?

BTC exchanges are the on/off ramp for converting to/from BTC, a digital asset, and are unavoidable, at least at present. I deal in reality.

Anyone who is thinking they are going to get involved with BTC anonymously, and avoid paying the tax man, they shouldn't get involved. If/when you have to convert BTC to USD, you better expect to have to pay the capital gains tax, just like you would when selling real estate or gold or other hard assets. Just don't have false/unrealistic expectations.

Or how about the wallet provider you've chosen?

That doesn't involve (or doesn't have to involve) a 'trusted third party', except in so far as I trust that the open source software I'm using is not compromised. I'll stick with the ones that have been vetted by those far more capable than myself.

So, yes, there is a level of trust involved, by everyone, as even the best software engineer could miss something.

Or how about your Lightning performing transactions off the chain? Those seem like third parties.... ones you need to "trust."

Lightning is not BTC, let's stick with BTC for now, I'm not very interested in Lightning except to just keep abreast of what those in the know are saying about it. From what I've read, Lightning has promise, but is far from ready for prime time for the likes of me...

4. Actually, it is as insecure as I think it is.

Prove it.

There was, and is, a thing called "social engineering" that has led to hacks of the biggest systems on the planet.

Yeah, I've read of one or two major BTC hacks. Nothing online is 100% unhackable. Not even your VISA or Federally Insured bank accounts. Hell, they're even stealing the houses people are living in without you even knowing it.

It is called reality.

Let's say you use 2fa on your cell phone... you think some college kid working at a cell phone store has the capability of protecting your info? It's pretty simple to make a new sim card...

Let's keep the discussion to BTC, not someone hacking my 2FA secured email account, ok?

5. Exactly what I said. You're willing to give up everything a regulated industry provides

Ummm... again, you are very, very confused. I'm not giving up anything. I have bank accounts. I have credit cards. You are right, they are very convenient, and I use them daily.

for some perceived benefits that aren't actually achieved,

They are 100% achieved.

and your excuse is "nothing's perfect,"

Not an excuse, simply reality. Try living in it. It is invigorating!

yet all those benefits are already achieved with existing systems already in place, which you want to replace because they're not perfect.

The existing monetary systems are about as far from what BTC is as the earth is from the sun.

Try it this way:

There are digital currencies, and there are digital assets.

BTC is a digital asset. Lightning (and I think ethereum, etc) are, or are intended to be digital currencies.

BTC is not intended to replace existing monetary systems, it is a long term hedge against inflation. A long term asset, like real estate or gold, but without any of the limitations.

Here is an excellent and fairly short video of a BTC billionaire discussing the above mentionoed aspects of BTC: