Colin Powell, Former U.S. Secretary of State, Dies of COVID-19 at 84

a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

The vaccine is, and never was, touted as a vaccine where you would never die from it. It lessens symptoms. Deaths occur.

Then it's not a vaccine.

TheRedneck

Can't count the number of times I've had Polio despite the vaccine for it. Real yearly annoyance that polio...

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

The vaccine is, and never was, touted as a vaccine where you would never die from it. It lessens symptoms. Deaths occur.

Then it's not a vaccine.

TheRedneck

You are not educated enough to understand what a vaccine is if this is your real take. Go figure this is the mindset here.

www.immune.org.nz...

originally posted by: HawkEyi
a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

It lessens symptoms

But it can cause other symptoms.

As every single vaccine can do, yes.

a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

This old man is quite well educated, thank you very much. Just not indoctrinated.

If one takes a disease after being vaccinated against it, the vaccine failed.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

This old man is quite well educated, thank you very much. Just not indoctrinated.

If one takes a disease after being vaccinated against it, the vaccine failed.

TheRedneck

Absolutely not if you think vaccines are always 100% effective. You deny science.

And you say you're not indoctrinated? I believe you are by abovetopsecret. A conspiracy oriented website full of tin foil hat people who believe they have been abducted by aliens.

a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

Did I ever state that vaccines are 100% effective? I don't remember that... old men have bad memories though. Think you could find where I said that?

I do expect a vaccine to be effective in at least the high 90% percentile. As you have already admitted, all vaccines carry some risk to the individual taking them, albeit usually minor. Why do you believe you or anyone else has the right to force that chance on another?

And why, if one takes a vaccine that is effective, are they worried about those who do not take the vaccine? If the vaccine is effective, is it not the unvaccinated who are at risk? Why are the vaccinated assumed to be so much at risk if the vaccine works as claimed?

ETA: And I am sorry you find ATS so unenlightened. It must be terrible to force oneself to constantly engage on a forum one thinks so little of.

Well, that's assuming a lack of mental issues; I would never assume that about you. So you have my sympathies on your self-imposed burden.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

Did I ever state that vaccines are 100% effective? I don't remember that... old men have bad memories though. Think you could find where I said that?

I do expect a vaccine to be effective in at least the high 90% percentile. As you have already admitted, all vaccines carry some risk to the individual taking them, albeit usually minor. Why do you believe you or anyone else has the right to force that chance on another?

And why, if one takes a vaccine that is effective, are they worried about those who do not take the vaccine? If the vaccine is effective, is it not the unvaccinated who are at risk? Why are the vaccinated assumed to be so much at risk if the vaccine works as claimed?

ETA: And I am sorry you find ATS so unenlightened. It must be terrible to force oneself to constantly engage on a forum one thinks so little of.

Well, that's assuming a lack of mental issues; I would never assume that about you. So you have my sympathies on your self-imposed burden.

TheRedneck

Its inclined when you said it was not a vaccine. You're quoted saying that.

As about ATS, I came back here to see the way people think and how their critical thinking skills are at use. I know by me saying this, it does sound like I'm a bad person looking to make fun of poor informed people. But this is not the case. I am here to observe takes, and hopefully correct the wrong ones.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

This old man is quite well educated, thank you very much. Just not indoctrinated.

If one takes a disease after being vaccinated against it, the vaccine failed.

TheRedneck

Mind you, no vaccine has a hundred per cent success rate, obviously. Our of how many millions vaxxed and some folk "takes a disease" - whatever that might mean - does one start saying it has "failed"?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

If one takes a vaccine and then contracts the disease, the vaccine failed. Is that hard to understand? The vaccine's purpose is, by definition, to prevent the disease. If it fails to do so, it has failed.

Doesn't matter if one in 1,000,000 vaccinated contract the disease. It's a failure rate of 0.0001%.

What is the failure rate of this vaccine? I personally know 6 people who have taken the disease, three of which have been vaccinated.

TheRedneck

a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

Its inclined when you said it was not a vaccine. You're quoted saying that.

It is not being treated as a vaccine. It is being treated as a proactive treatment. There is a difference.

When every authority, including the manufacturers, state that the "vaccine" does not prevent the disease but only decreases the symptoms, they are admitting it is not a vaccine. I'm simply agreeing with Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson&Johnson.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

Its inclined when you said it was not a vaccine. You're quoted saying that.

It is not being treated as a vaccine. It is being treated as a proactive treatment. There is a difference.

When every authority, including the manufacturers, state that the "vaccine" does not prevent the disease but only decreases the symptoms, they are admitting it is not a vaccine. I'm simply agreeing with Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson&Johnson.

TheRedneck

It is being treated as a vaccine. Comes with boosters to. Which are used after vaccines.
It is not treated as proactive treatment. When somebody in the hosopital has covid, they dont go "we need a vaccine stat!"

a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

Please look up the word "proactive." It means it is given before contracting the disease, not after.

TheRedneck

Notice how they say...'died from covid despite being vaccinated'...or the like, instead of saying...'died from the vaccine' ??

You're going to start seeing more of this.

ETA - They'll never say...'died from the vaccine' !!!

a reply to: Jamie2018

Powell wrote his legacy with his argument for the Iraq War to his UN audience. But there is a difference between false intel, low grade or unreliable information, relying on a single source, and only permitting data that supports your arguments.

I hope that Powell's role as the 'loyal solider' in the George W Bush admin is studied by aspiring leaders who want to avoid repeating his mistakes. Learning to recognise the signs of people hell-bent on supporting a single and incorrect conclusion and the need for moral courage to stop ill-thought-out decisions are lessons for future generations.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Oldcarpy2

If one takes a vaccine and then contracts the disease, the vaccine failed. Is that hard to understand? The vaccine's purpose is, by definition, to prevent the disease. If it fails to do so, it has failed.

Doesn't matter if one in 1,000,000 vaccinated contract the disease. It's a failure rate of 0.0001%.

What is the failure rate of this vaccine? I personally know 6 people who have taken the disease, three of which have been vaccinated.

TheRedneck

No. The purpose of vaccines is to boost immunity, not to prevent infection in the first place.

Yes, it hopefully prevents disease, but not infection, which are two different things.

How could it? You are putting the cart before the horse.

It provides immunity from the disease, not infection.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

Its inclined when you said it was not a vaccine. You're quoted saying that.

It is not being treated as a vaccine. It is being treated as a proactive treatment. There is a difference.

When every authority, including the manufacturers, state that the "vaccine" does not prevent the disease but only decreases the symptoms, they are admitting it is not a vaccine. I'm simply agreeing with Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson&Johnson.

TheRedneck

Here, this may help explain. Very few vaccines provide "sterilising immunity". They mostly help to fight off the disease, rather than prevent infection. By boosting the bodies' immune system:

theconversation.com...

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

You know, I'm damn tired of arguing about a damn definition. If you want to call it a freakin' antelope, that is fine... it's a freakin' antelope. I will continue to call things the same thing they have been called for ages, according tot he same definitions that have been used for ages, and you can go off in never-never-land and speak in whatever made-up language you want.

If it don't stop the disease, it's not worth me or anyone else taking.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Oldcarpy2

You know, I'm damn tired of arguing about a damn definition. If you want to call it a freakin' antelope, that is fine... it's a freakin' antelope. I will continue to call things the same thing they have been called for ages, according tot he same definitions that have been used for ages, and you can go off in never-never-land and speak in whatever made-up language you want.

If it don't stop the disease, it's not worth me or anyone else taking.

TheRedneck

Made up language? What, like, plain English?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

I tested positive for Covid nearly four weeks ago.
I had no symptoms apart from a bad chest.

The virus had infected me but because I have been double jabbed my body was able to fight it and I didn't develop the disease.