Got The Second Shot. Still Got Covid.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rickymouse
I am getting tired of the deception coming from the medical and political people. Natural immunity does work, the vaccine does work but not as good as natural immunity because our immune systems are usually pretty good.

Some of the medical treatments and some of the food additives mess up our immune systems and make us need vaccines, they should evaluate the medicines and food chemicals added to food creation better and try to fix the problem. Also very old people are more apt to be on meds that hinder or overreact to viruses, and of course they also have immune systems that are getting worn out at the end of their lives. Does that mean everyone needs a vaccine? Not in my opinion. They know about this, some pharma companies are affiliated with some chemical companies that create the chemicals used on food production and preservation. Some also create the meds that interfere with the proper regulation of the immune system which puts some in jeopardy....then they make vaccines to take care of the side effects of the meds. Some meds purposely suppress the immune system to treat the condition and lots of those meds could be dropped if the medical industry just informed people of histamine foods that increase the severity. of the reaction...but they don't usually mention that, just give the drug to cancel out the symptom.

You can only get natural immunity after you have gotten sick. And some people don't only get sick for a bit, they die.

About ninety seven percent of people under sixty fivee who get covid do not die. And of those who do diee,there is usually some other condition present that increases the chance of the virus turning covid 19. Covid 19 is a type of sepsis that forms from the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but it usually only forms if the immune system is compromised which means it either is overreacting or under-reacting to the virus....medications and illnesses compounded to the virus can also make it go covid, so can a poor diet. Many people have been put on meds that increase the risk for a disease they could just make dietary changes to get rid of. Meds are given to treat the side effects of other meds a lot of times too, compounding the risk of one of them messing with immunity to diseases.

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rickymouse
I am getting tired of the deception coming from the medical and political people. Natural immunity does work, the vaccine does work but not as good as natural immunity because our immune systems are usually pretty good.

Some of the medical treatments and some of the food additives mess up our immune systems and make us need vaccines, they should evaluate the medicines and food chemicals added to food creation better and try to fix the problem. Also very old people are more apt to be on meds that hinder or overreact to viruses, and of course they also have immune systems that are getting worn out at the end of their lives. Does that mean everyone needs a vaccine? Not in my opinion. They know about this, some pharma companies are affiliated with some chemical companies that create the chemicals used on food production and preservation. Some also create the meds that interfere with the proper regulation of the immune system which puts some in jeopardy....then they make vaccines to take care of the side effects of the meds. Some meds purposely suppress the immune system to treat the condition and lots of those meds could be dropped if the medical industry just informed people of histamine foods that increase the severity. of the reaction...but they don't usually mention that, just give the drug to cancel out the symptom.

You can only get natural immunity after you have gotten sick. And some people don't only get sick for a bit, they die.

About ninety seven percent of people under sixty fivee who get covid do not die.

So, three out of every hundred who catch COVID-19 in that demographic, die.

And of those who do diee,there is usually some other condition present that increases the chance of the virus turning covid 19.

Do you know of any deadly disease where contributory conditions don't contribute to death? To a certain extent, suggesting that it kills in contribution with other things, is an excuse.

Also, there are people without any detectable other contributory factors (bout 6% in one of the CDC's estimations). The disease can and does kill on its own.

Covid 19 is a type of sepsis that forms from the SARS-CoV-2 virus,

That is only one of the ways that COVID-19 kills. As usual, things are complicated.

COVID-19 Autopsies Uncover Ways The Coronavirus Kills

but it usually only forms if the immune system is compromised which means it either is overreacting or under-reacting to the virus....medications and illnesses compounded to the virus can also make it go covid, so can a poor diet. Many people have been put on meds that increase the risk for a disease they could just make dietary changes to get rid of. Meds are given to treat the side effects of other meds a lot of times too, compounding the risk of one of them messing with immunity to diseases.

People on healthy diets, and with healthy lifestyles, still get sick and die.

Yes, healthy people are more likely to recover, but they still have to get the disease before they mount an immune defense. And sometimes, that defense comes too little, too late. Even in the healthy.

a reply to: Stupidsecrets

Duh could the vax be the covid?

a reply to: rnaa

I'm disappointed in you rnaa. Usually folks on these forums are more educated than what you've displayed here. Time to step it up, and do your homework. Don't worry, these fine folks will be glad to help you out.

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
I must blame someone. I can't blame anyone that agrees with my politics and our science. I must blame anyone that disagrees with my politics and science. It is their fault. They are the ones causing all the grief on the planet on every single issue and the reason I got sick. They caused the shots to fail. They must be stopped and punished. Take their jobs. Imprison them. It's the only way to get back to normal.

I don't understand? Are you dead?

If not, then the vaccinations WORKED.

Vaccinations cannot protect you from the virus entering your body (masks and social distancing can go a long way to helping though). They don't put up a magic impermeable membrane that excludes the nasty virus.

Vaccinations teach your immune system how to fight the virus once you are infected. Some peoples immune system don't respond as fast or as effectively as others so you can still start showing symptoms before your immune system gets on top of it.

But you ain't dead, so count your blessings and congratulate the scientists that developed the vaccines that may well have saved your life.

originally posted by: sighbul
a reply to: rnaa

I'm disappointed in you rnaa. Usually folks on these forums are more educated than what you've displayed here. Time to step it up, and do your homework. Don't worry, these fine folks will be glad to help you out.

...first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. (Mathew 7:5)

COVID super-immunity: one of the pandemic’s great puzzles

People who have previously recovered from COVID-19 have a stronger immune response after being vaccinated than those who have never been infected.
...
In a study published this September in Nature, they reported that a spike mutant containing 20 changes was fully resistant to neutralizing antibodies made by most of the people tested who had been either infected or vaccinated — but not to everyone’s.

Those who had recovered from COVID-19 months before receiving their jabs harboured antibodies capable of defanging the mutant spike, which displays much more resistance to immune attack than any known naturally occurring variant. These peoples’ antibodies even blocked other types of coronaviruses. “It’s very likely they will be effective against any future variant that SARS-CoV-2 throws against them,” says Hatziioannou.
,,,
Many studies of hybrid immunity haven’t followed naive vaccine recipients for as long as those who recovered from COVID-19, and it’s possible their B cells will make antibodies that gain potency and breadth with more time, additional vaccine doses, or both, researchers say. It can take months for a stable pool of memory B cells to establish itself and mature.

...It’s not surprising that people infected and vaccinated are getting a nice response,” says Ali Ellebedy, a B-cell immunologist at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri. “We are comparing someone who started the race three to four months ago to someone who started the race now.”

There is some evidence that people who received both jabs without previously being infected seem to be catching up.
...
A third vaccine dose might allow people who haven't been infected to achieve the benefits of hybrid immunity, says Matthieu Mahévas, an immunologist at the Necker Institute for Sick Children in Paris. His team found that some of the memory B cells from naive vaccine recipients could recognize Beta and Delta, two months after vaccination. “When you boost this pool, you can clearly imagine you will generate potent neutralizing antibodies against variants,” Mahévas says.
...
As breakthrough infections caused by the Delta variant stack up, researchers including Nussenzweig are keen to study the immunity in people who were infected after their COVID-19 vaccinations, rather than before.

No vaccine is perfect and Covid19 vaccines are not some kind of magic membrane that prevents the virus from entering your body.

The difference the vaccine makes is that it teaches your immune system how to fight the virus to keep it from multiplying out of control and killing you.

Here's the key point: according to current statistics if you get infected with Covid-19 (and develop symptoms strong enough to notice and test for) you are 11 times more likely to die from a Covid infection if you are unvaccinated than if you are vaccinated. AND if you are unfortunate enough to experience a breakthrough infection you are much less likely to require hospitalization, and if hospitalized much less likely to require ICU.

Sample Statistics from Australia
Unvaccinated patients dominate COVID deaths and ICU

It indicates 4654 people were hospitalised due to COVID-19 from the beginning of the outbreak in June until that time, of which around 9% (441) were treated in ICU.

Of the total admitted to hospital, 153 (3.3%) were confirmed as fully vaccinated, while 844 (18.1%) were partially vaccinated and the rest (3657) were unvaccinated, or their vaccination status was unable to be established.

In total 284 unvaccinated people (64.4%) had been treated in ICU during the latest outbreak up to 4 September. Seventy patients (15.9%) who received intensive care were categorised as partially vaccinated, while eight (1.8%) were fully vaccinated.
...
‘That’s the kind of pattern that we’ve been seeing where the deaths are very largely in people who aren’t vaccinated,’ Professor Pond told newsGP.

‘It’s really hard data. It can’t be interpreted in any way other than vaccination means that you’re less likely to die.’

Until 4 September, there were 129 confirmed COVID deaths within NSW – again mostly among the unvaccinated. Of those deaths, 15 (11.6%) were confirmed as fully vaccinated, including six people in their 70s, five in their 80s and four in their 90s.

I will trust my natural immunity, over the "blah blah blah" any day of the week.

I will not trust an experimental vaccine, by government mandate.

Period.

originally posted by: rnaa
a reply to: rnaa

No vaccine is perfect

ACAM2000 enters the chat, IPV enters the chat.

If you don't know what those vaccines are, they are the smallpox and polio vaccines names respectively.

The smallpox vaccine was as close to perfect as you can get, smallpox is totally wiped out in countries that vaccinate against it. The defination of vaccine was changed to accomodate the Covid vaccination. Hey when things aren't working correctly, just change the definition, right? You're okay with that?

Just waiting for the person to chime in, "you don't get the smallpox vaccine to stop you from getting smallpox, you get it to reduce symptoms". And what a load of crap that is.

Here is the change in wording. Merriam-Webster Language Log

is there gonna be a pure blood gang?
we can were leather jackets.

originally posted by: madmac5150
I will trust my natural immunity, over the "blah blah blah" any day of the week.

I will not trust an experimental vaccine, by government mandate.

Period.

Natural Immunity is GREAT.

Trouble is your immune system doesn't know anything about the Cov-Sars-2 virus. If you get infected, it could take weeks for your immune system to figure it out. And by then you could be dead.

The vaccines are NOT experimental.

You have had a year to get vaccinated without a mandate being imposed. Had you taken that opportunity your community might well be living without all these restrictions by now.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt here, I will assume you are an adult - grow up and act like one.

originally posted by: litterbaux

originally posted by: rnaa
a reply to: rnaa

No vaccine is perfect

ACAM2000 enters the chat, IPV enters the chat.

If you don't know what those vaccines are, they are the smallpox and polio vaccines names respectively.

The smallpox vaccine was as close to perfect as you can get, smallpox is totally wiped out in countries that vaccinate against it.

Neither has been "wiped out" as in "wiped out of existence". "Wiped out" means "not circulating in the Human Population" in this context. Smallpox is not circulating as far as can be determined, but Polio is definitely alive and kicking.

Small samples of smallpox virus are kept in the USA and in Russia, but other than that, since no animals other than humans can vector smallpox variola virus, we can be confident that the virus is gone has 'gone', but it could be 'hiding' somewhere. More importantly, it has been shown that it is a trivial thing to produce variola from horse pox. The implications for biologic warfare aside, it wouldn't take much for a horse pox mutation to start kicking out smallpox again. Since the smallpox vaccination only lasts 3 to 5 years, maybe 10, and no one has been vaccinated for about 30 years now, smallpox could easily come back with a vengeance. I expect you'll refuse the vaccine if that happens.

Of course you know that Polio still exists. And vaccinations are MANDATORY before children go to school in all 50 states (not a Federal mandate). As are chickenpox and mumps and etc.

From Wikipedia: Polio Eradication - Herd Immunity

Among those individuals who receive oral polio vaccine, only 95 percent will develop immunity after three doses.[30] This means that five of every 100 given the vaccine will not develop any immunity and will be susceptible to developing polio.

So, that is what you call 'close to perfect'? (I STRONGLY suggest that you read the section at the link - it is a very good discussion of herd immunity).

All Covid-19 vaccines are about 90% effective at preventing infection (J&J requires two doses to get that high, just like the others) and several approach 100% at preventing serious disease requiring hospitalization.

Don't forget that the Polio vaccines have had over 60 years of improvements to get to 95% effectiveness (and also smallpox and polio mutate very slowly).

The definition of vaccine was changed to accomodate the Covid vaccination. Hey when things aren't working correctly, just change the definition, right? You're okay with that?

Yes, why wouldn't I be?

If the definition no longer correctly describes what a vaccine is, then the definition should change. It has nothing to do with whether or not a vaccine 'works' it has to do with what constitutes a vaccine.

CovSars-2 is a Coronavirus. Smallpox and Polio are NOT coronavirus. CovSars-2 requires a completely different kind of vaccine. So yes, some dictionaries have noticed that their definition is out of date and has brought them up to date. Guess what, dictionaries update their definitions all the time. Language changes all the time.

Just waiting for the person to chime in, "you don't get the smallpox vaccine to stop you from getting smallpox, you get it to reduce symptoms". And what a load of crap that is.

Crap is it? Have you seen the symptoms that come from a Smallpox or Polio infection ? Trust me you don't want that.

The 'package' of symptoms and the cause of those symptoms are what constitutes a disease. Diseases kill or cripple in different ways. Unless you attack the source of the symptoms you aren't going to survive the disease.

Coronavirus grabs cells with ACE2 receptors in your respiratory system, especially those deep in your lungs, and using them to make copies of itself which can then be breathed out, coughed out, sneezed out onto a new host. That's how it spreads. If your immune system can stop the virus multiplying, you stop that process, symptoms like coughing and sneezing don't spread the virus; symptoms like inflammation of the lungs (pneumonia) don't lead to Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome and you are unlikely to die.

So yes, teaching your immune system to fight the virus effectively means you won't suffer those symptoms and likely won't die, and you are less likely to pass it on to others if you do get an infection.

Once enough people are vaccinated, upwards of 80% the the virus won't be able to find a host, just like smallpox. Except coronaviruses mutate much faster than variola, so well have to keep revaccinating to keep up like we do with influenza.

EDIT: I really wanted to insert a jibe about the ivermectin fad but I just couldn't do it without muddying an already muddy discussion. So I'll just say that trying to fight a respiratory disease virus sitting down in the bottom of your lungs with gut parasite killer intended for animals (aka 'horse de-worming paste') is extraordinarily, um..., shall we just say 'counter-intuitive'.

People die all the time bro. Eventually we will all die. And this whole death by Covid is completely overblown. I still do not know anyone who has gotten that sick and died from complications due to COVID. Not one person. And that includes people I know that would know someone. Stop with your doom scenario. If COVID were that dangerous, people would noticeably dropping like flies everywhere. And that has not happened. When did people become blind ass f..k to the reality happening right before their eyes. Stop already. Please. reply to: chr0naut

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

The jabbed are either getting Covid again or they're getting other colds or the Flu and their weakened immune systems can't fight it off. But so many have just died after getting the vaxx. Heart attacks, strokes, blood clots.

originally posted by: TacoLoco75
People die all the time bro. Eventually we will all die. And this whole death by Covid is completely overblown. I still do not know anyone who has gotten that sick and died from complications due to COVID. Not one person. And that includes people I know that would know someone. Stop with your doom scenario. If COVID were that dangerous, people would noticeably dropping like flies everywhere. And that has not happened. When did people become blind ass f..k to the reality happening right before their eyes. Stop already. Please. reply to: chr0naut

How lucky for you. You know what I hear you saying in your post? I hear 'me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me...'.

I have several relatives that have recovered and are dealing with 'long covid'. One with excruciating headaches and another with possible permanent kidney damage.

I have friends who have had relatives die, and others who need critical treatment not related to Covid who cannot get into hospital because of covid patients.

Influenza Pandemic of 1918-1920: 3 Years - World wide: 50 million dead - America: 675,000 dead

Covid-19 Pandemic of 2020-ongoing: 2 Years and counting - World wide: 4,921,308: America: 746,509

The USA has over 2,100 deaths per million population - 2.1 per 10,000.

The world has dealt with Covid so much better than it did Influenza - as you would expect after 100 years of medical advancement.

But what has happened in America? Its gone from the greatest country in the world to your 'me me me - its all about - me me me'.

The best health care system in the world? Not America that's for sure, and what good is left in it is being systematically dismantled by morons.

So spare me your gaslighting, selfish, winging. I'm over it.

originally posted by: rnaa

originally posted by: TacoLoco75
People die all the time bro. Eventually we will all die. And this whole death by Covid is completely overblown. I still do not know anyone who has gotten that sick and died from complications due to COVID. Not one person. And that includes people I know that would know someone. Stop with your doom scenario. If COVID were that dangerous, people would noticeably dropping like flies everywhere. And that has not happened. When did people become blind ass f..k to the reality happening right before their eyes. Stop already. Please. reply to: chr0naut

How lucky for you. You know what I hear you saying in your post? I hear 'me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me...'.

I have several relatives that have recovered and are dealing with 'long covid'. One with excruciating headaches and another with possible permanent kidney damage.

I have friends who have had relatives die, and others who need critical treatment not related to Covid who cannot get into hospital because of covid patients.

Influenza Pandemic of 1918-1920: 3 Years - World wide: 50 million dead - America: 675,000 dead

Covid-19 Pandemic of 2020-ongoing: 2 Years and counting - World wide: 4,921,308: America: 746,509

The USA has over 2,100 deaths per million population - 2.1 per 10,000.

The world has dealt with Covid so much better than it did Influenza - as you would expect after 100 years of medical advancement.

But what has happened in America? Its gone from the greatest country in the world to your 'me me me - its all about - me me me'.

The best health care system in the world? Not America that's for sure, and what good is left in it is being systematically dismantled by morons.

So spare me your gaslighting, selfish, winging. I'm over it.

Give me a break as a nurse who walked out of the hospial over the mandate should tell you something we have been on the front lines for 2 years.....i worked with infected people for 2 years and i still have not had covid...

you litterally proved your self wrong with your post........

4 million dead out of 7.5+ billion people is around 1% so you go ahead and take your chances with that jab which can cause serious side effects....me and the 250 other nurses who all walked out know better then to take a vaccine that isnt killing as many people as the media claims

a reply to: rnaa

I would rather trust the nurses who had quit. Who know more about the risks with the covid and vaxs. These covid vaxs could have serious effects.

I am not willing to take on try.

a reply to: rnaa

The vaccines are NOT experimental.

They arent? because they had being approved by FDA right?

Had you taken that opportunity your community might well be living without all these restrictions by now.

Once these restrictions are imposed majority of them will not be removed. They might scale it down but completely remove them?

a reply to: holydarkness

Give me a break as a nurse who walked out of the hospial over the mandate should tell you something

Indeed it does.

It tells me that you are a coward that had no business what-so-ever being in the nursing profession.

You KNEW when you took the job that the job entailed keeping yourself and others safe. You claim to have spent 2 years working with infected people and have managed to not become infected - PRECISELY because you maintained MANDATED personal protection protocols. Well the vaccine is another personal protection protocol.

You have abandoned your colleagues and patients and dishonored your vows. While your former colleagues are having to do your work as well as their own, you sit comfortably at home behind your keyboard telling everybody what a glorious, liberated, smart person you are.

I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. Actually, that's a lie, I'm not sorry in any way what-so-ever.

I can understand and sympathize with you for the stress of 2 years of working under very stressful conditions. But I cannot abide claiming some false concern about 'freedumb' over a mandate that health professionals should do everything they possibly can to stay healthy for the sake of their patients. Its ludicrous and cowardly.

I am bloody well sick and tired of gaslighting morons encouraging people to put themselves in danger, and worse directly putting others in danger by walking off the job.

Assuming that you are telling the truth of course. And if you are lying, go f### yourself.

a reply to: HawkEyi

I would rather trust the nurses who had quit.

I wouldn't trust cowardly quitters like that with removing a splinter from my finger.

They have proven themselves untrustworthy.