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Religious exemption

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posted on Oct, 21 2021 @ 05:27 PM
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a reply to: interupt42
Umm... Congress are the lawmakers? It would probably take an act from congress to exert much power over quasi govt institutions like the usps. And, I included the pres and governors in with the lawmakers since they tend to have input as to what laws are written along with the power to veto them. Most politicians don't have enough influence to do squat really.



posted on Oct, 21 2021 @ 05:39 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar




Most politicians don't have enough influence to do squat really.

well this administration along with previous ones has shown that to not be the case.

The only influence and power they appear to not have is for decreasing gov't , reforming taxes , and giving the people more power and control over govt and Oligarchs.



posted on Oct, 21 2021 @ 05:50 PM
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a reply to: interupt42

Most politicians don't make it any farther that a seat in the local govts if they make it that far.
edit on 21-10-2021 by dawnstar because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2021 @ 08:00 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar


You are either wrong about the shot clinics requiring you to report any income information or I guess blame you state.

All I can tell you is what I experienced. As for blaming my state? Don't fret; I do that quite regularly. There are a lot of things Alabama could do better, and some things I think they do pretty well.

Just like any state.


Hospitals only benefit if either the patient/insurance company pays or it recoups the expenses by raising its fees.

Not necessarily. That applies to private hospitals; public hospitals are required by law to care for patients whether or not they can pay, and they are also required to write off a percentage of their charges to maintain public funding.

There are just so many people who ask for their bills to be written off, it becomes difficult to help everyone who needs help.

There are also tax benefits for hospitals to write off noncollectable accounts.


More people died from covid last year that polio ever killed in a years time. Matter of fact, if you added polos death toll with the number of kids crippled, the number wouldn't be much higher, maybe even less.

One cannot take absolute numbers in comparing diseases. There are a lot more people around today that there was when polio was around. The percentages of those who contracted each disease compared to the number who died from the disease puts polio far, far, far higher than the Chinese virus ever dreamed of.


And the polio vaccine wasn't tested any more than the covid vaccine, matter of fact, there were two versions of vaccines developed the first one ended rather disastrously in the trial stage.

The year is 2021. The polio vaccine has been used for quite some time and the side effects are well known.

Come 2050 or so, the same can be said for the Chinese virus vaccine.

Another aspect you seem to not want to consider is, the Chinese virus vaccine DOES NOT WORK. Don't tell me it makes the virus not as serious, or that it reduces hospitalizations, or any of that nonsense. It doesn't matter. A VACCINE PREVENTS ONE FROM CONTRACTING A DISEASE. Yet, breakthrough cases with this particular vaccine are numerous, so much so that even the manufacturers and governments around the globe do not recognize it as preventing the disease, only lessening symptoms. A similar polio vaccine would have been rejected by the public as well if it didn't prevent the disease.


Still, the parents eagerly lined the kids up for the vaccine when they had the opportunity to. And, yes, I know the difference between polio, smallpox, and covid.

Apparently you do not. please allow me to educate you.

The Chinese virus has a fatality rate of somewhere around 1% over all age groups. The elderly, infirm, and immunocompromised may see fatality rates approaching 10-15%. At least half of all cases (based on reports so far) are totally asymptomatic; the people don't even know they have the virus. Most of those left experience what is essentially comparable to a severe cold or flu. Those who recover normally have no lasting effects.

Here's what the CDC says about poliomyelitis (the actual name for polio):

The case fatality ratio for paralytic polio is generally 2% to 5% among children and up to 15% to 30% among adolescents and adults. It increases to 25% to 75% with bulbar involvement.
2% for the least affected groups, compared to 0.001% for the Chinese virus. 75% for the highest-risk groups, compared to 15% or so for the Chinese virus.

After an interval of 15 to 40 years, 25% to 40% of persons who contracted paralytic poliomyelitis in childhood experience new muscle pain and exacerbation of existing weakness or develop new weakness or paralysis.
In addition to the higher potential of fatality, those who contract poliomyelitis have a high risk of becoming paralyzed, and this paralysis can occur as much as 40 years after the virus is contracted. Compare that to the Chinese virus, which shows no long-lasting effects in those who have contracted it (yet).

How about smallpox? Here's what the Mayo Clinic has to say:

Smallpox is a contagious, disfiguring and often deadly disease that has affected humans for thousands of years. Naturally occurring smallpox was wiped out worldwide by 1980 — the result of an unprecedented global immunization campaign.
And there were no mandatory vaccinations used in this global campaign. Yet it was so successful that smallpox was literally wiped out.

No cure or treatment for smallpox exists.
There are treatments for the Chinese virus... including zinc, vitamin D3, Vitamin C, ivermectin, hydroxycholoroquine, artificial antibodies, etc.

No, you either had no idea what you were talking about, or you were just typing crap to hope it stuck. It didn't.


You do know what I mean by the Christian right dont you. It is a pretty common term referring to a group within the evangelical movement.

Common does not mean "real."

If you want to bash a religion, learn something about it first. Owning a Bible does not qualify.


I suggest you stop inferring that the kids aren't taking me seriously because of my religious views.

Deal... as long as you stop suggesting that being Christian somehow reflects political platforms.


Being free to practice you religion is being able to pray while not disturbing others in the class not having a time for prayer set aside or worse led prayers in school.
Or being able to bring a bible to school to read in your own time, not have bible or any other religious text read to them. Those things are forcing your religion onto others.

And that's it? Really? You really think there is nothing more to Christianity than saying a silent prayer or reading a few passages from a Bible?

Well, so much for that deal... being Christian means trying to let God lead you through life. It's hard to do that when governments or employers are leading one in the opposite direction.


Think you are reading me wrong or something. Yes let people be free to chart their own course through life, do what they believe is right for them. Ensure that they all have an equal opportunity to develope their skills and abilities. Let them find their own place in creation. Let the violinists play their violins, the flutist their flutes, let the drummers drum! Quite telling or blocking people from being what they should be because it doesn't fit in with your preconceived stereotypical notion of what you think god would want them to be! It takes all those instruments to make an orchestra play beautiful music, one isnt more or less important than the others.

Every time you post something like this, it makes me think maybe I am reading you wrong. But every time I think that, you come back with something that says "control the people!" I'm starting to wonder if I am debating one person or two?

Yes, I agree. Now apply that to the thread. Shouldn't people be free to decide what medicine to take?

>> continued >>



posted on Oct, 21 2021 @ 08:00 PM
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>> continued >>


The honesty has to come from both sides though! And, it is obvious that one side is being a tad bit dishonest.

Yes, comparing this virus to smallpox or polio is indeed a "tad bit" dishonest.


You have a right to chose what to believe and what not to, but so do I. We just disagree on what is believable.

But that's not what is being debated here. And here is where I come right back with that issue of you wanting to control others. You believe the vaccine is good... great! Your right, doesn't bother me if you decide to take it. Good luck with that.

But I believe it is not a good thing. I choose not to take it. Instead of defending my personal decision as I defend yours, you seem to be just fine with others forcing me to take it. And apparently, much of that is precipitated by your belief that my religion is just a bunch of political agendas.

So yes, it is more than just a disagreement on what we believe. It is a disagreement about you being just fine with others controlling what I do, while I would defend you in the same position.

Now do you see the problem?


You want people to stop having abortions, make motherhood a worthy venture that deserves respect instead of having policies and attitudes that leave so many women and children living in poverty.

Motherhood is a worthy venture that deserves respect! Where did you ever get the idea that i thought anything different? Did Rachal Maddow tell you that? As far as I am concerned there is no higher calling!

As for my policies and attitudes, how do you even know what my policies are? I didn't call them in to CNN, if that's how you inferred them.


And, for Pete's sake accept that there are times when it is the most prudent course of action!

Of course there are! You are trying to demonize me for things I don't even agree with!

Maybe, just maybe, if you would listen to others before deciding what they think, you might actually learn something that isn't fake news.


my version of godliness would be this little corner of creation playing the same beautiful music that is in heaven. I don't see that as being possible anytime in the near future. It would require everyone to stop trying to control others as well as surrendering much of the control over their own lives and having faith that god would adjust the world and put us in our proper place.

Again... not sure how many times I have to say this before you read it... I am not trying to control anyone's life but mine! You, by supporting mandates, are the one trying to control others. That's what a mandate is!


Don't talk to me about how much "liberty" I had I. My younget adult life unless you want me to expand on my views of god and religion.

Did people decide what medicine you had to take, whether you wanted it or not, and whether you felt you needed it or not?

I doubt that very much.

TheRedneck



posted on Oct, 22 2021 @ 09:21 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck
But. I really dont support forcing medical decisions onto other people, vaccines included. I have always been told that you shouldn't get the vaccine it you are sick... I have been sick the past year. So much so that i thought it best to stop driving, have let the house go to hell figuring if something is bothering my sons, they will take care of it, and if I do actually cook a meal that isn't just a throw it into the oven and let it crawl out when it done... i am just too wiped out to eat it. They tell us to consult with our doctor... i think they mean a doctor who you have made regular visits to, you have a medical record they can consult... i didn't even have enough medical records to show that i was disabled, matter of fact, when the request went out to the doctors I had seen all but one came back saying we couldnt find any. That one only had the most recent visits. So, even if I did go to a doctor to consult I doubt if I would get an accurate assessment. But, like I said, I have been in my house all this time... anything I might catch, ain't spreading, and since I have such little faith now in the doctors.. I am content with just doing the best I can and dying from some unknown cause when the time comes... no chance of spreading, no wasting the taxpayers money on hospital Bill's. The only way they are gonna force that shot on me is if they bring it to me and give it to me on my porch at this point. Two sons I wont even ask to give me a ride to get one, I ain't gonna open myself up to their arguments and the third is working too damned hard 6 days a week trying to pay the Bill's with just my help while the other two try to get a business going strong enough to even make their own car payment (oh us, not only am I paying at least a portion of their share of the living expenses here, but making his car payment and buying 99% of the food.) I haven't really griped much about them up and quiting their last job and making this business venture since I feel their boss wasn't valuing their lives much. But I do have a feeling that being required to attend that meeting about covid safety that they both blew off might have had something to do with it.
I may no agree with the mandates, but at least I can see their points of view though and interrupt the ATS soundboard where everyone seems to give assurance to each other that yes, they are right and only the few idiots don't see things differently and present the opposing view.
Maybe your beliefs about the virus is right, maybe it is wrong. As far as I am concerned, flip a coin... I may be right, I may be wrong. I am always open to the idea that I am wrong. I ain't gonna go screaming religious rights though because I dont believe wearing a mask is effective.
I do look for consistency though, and fairness. That is why I so often fail to just discuss the topic at hand.
And, well this is my opinion.
A group of people who have never contested the mandates for vaccines for their kids in school on religious grounds and claim the mask are against their religious principles who have no problem supporting abortion laws that would force young victims of rape or incest and refuse to consider how medically problematic pregnancies may affect the mother along with her family members are are wimps who are expecting more courage and bravery from 9. 10, 11, and 12 year olds and their parents than they can muster up themselves.
Have a strong belief that cutting grass is causing something akin to pain to the poor plants.... well dont live in the city you say.
Have a strong belief that sitting, waiting, watching a women cry out in pain for hours and days as her body tries to expel the unviable fetus that you know has to come out is cruel... well just don't work for those hospitals that would require you to do that or live in states that forbid it I guess. We only care about those healthcare workers who have the correct belief.
Govt and employers decide to require a vaccination to protect their employees and the public?? Oh no.. quick, go get your religious exemption! No well maybe you should switch jobs. No well, maybe you should move. Just straight to threatening school board members and govt officials and "religion".
Wimps!!!



posted on Oct, 22 2021 @ 12:06 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar


I haven't really griped much about them up and quiting their last job and making this business venture since I feel their boss wasn't valuing their lives much. But I do have a feeling that being required to attend that meeting about covid safety that they both blew off might have had something to do with it.

Have you ever thought maybe they left over a vaccine mandate? Maybe all those financial problems you keep talking about and all those problems you are having are the direct result of exactly what we are talking about.

The mandates don't directly affect me. I'm retired on disability; my wife doesn't work. We live alone, out in the country in a very conservative state where the "authorities" pretty much leave us alone. No one is forcing me personally to take the vaccine, and my kids are both vaccinated (their choice, didn't even know about it until after the fact). is apparently is affecting you, though, and I am here trying to defend you from these crazy mandates. Yet, you continually try to somehow justify them!

Can you possibly stop and actually think a moment? That unicorn just punched a hole in your wall and the rainbow is getting all over your carpet.


I may no agree with the mandates, but at least I can see their points of view though and interrupt the ATS soundboard where everyone seems to give assurance to each other that yes, they are right and only the few idiots don't see things differently and present the opposing view.

There is no practical difference between defending the mandates and agreeing with the mandates. By defending them, you are literally helping those who push them, unconstitutionally I might add, in their nefarious plans to force drugs onto those who do not want them.

I also see no difference between those who comply with or insist on mandates and the common back alley dope pusher. Would you be so quick to try and "understand" some jerk who sold one of your kids meth to get him hooked?

Wake up. Pick a position. Stand for something.


Maybe your beliefs about the virus is right, maybe it is wrong.

Maybe it is. We've only had two years to study it. But my opinion is based on medical reports, speaking with qualified doctors and a few researchers I know, and listening to reports with a skeptical mind. I think I'm probably as close to the truth as anyone right now.

You've already admitted that your opinion is based on CNN and Rachal Maddow. I don't believe any of them are medical doctors (with the possible exception of Sanjay Gupta, who I have already caught many times stretching the truth for a political agenda).


I ain't gonna go screaming religious rights though because I dont believe wearing a mask is effective.

We're not talking about masks; we're talking vaccines. One can always take a mask off if it causes problems. Can one take off a vaccine they took if it causes problems?

There have been deaths from the vaccine. Not many, admitted, but there have been some. How would you feel if it were one of your boys who was forced to take a vaccine and then died a couple months later from complications?

Would you still talk about how the vaccine mandates might be "fair" while attending the funeral?

As to the mask mandates, how about someone who medically cannot wear a mask? You're talking to one. As I said, I am disabled now and that disability means I will collapse after just a minute or two of wearing one of the things. I have been denied access to the services you take for granted; I have been denied auto repair, I have been denied food, and I have been denied access to government offices over a disability! Now let's see you make an excuse for that.


And, well this is my opinion.

Fine. That is your opinion. Now here's mine:

Neither you, an employer, or any government official can tell me or anyone else what our religious convictions are. Any attempt to do so is not just foolhardy and based on a complete lack of understanding of what a religion even is, but is also a direct violation of the US Constitution, which forbids the government (or any authority therein) from oppressing the people. That may well make the religious exemption a "loophole," but it is also often the only loophole available to those opposing government over-reach. It is also unfair to those who do have a serious religious exception to the vaccine to discount the exemptions because others may be abusing them.

Anyone who supports these mandates is crapping all over the country that has allowed them to speak out. Only a coward would do that over fear of some silly bug. Apparently there are so many cowards in this country now that tyranny is inevitable. The Tree of Liberty is wilting, because people apparently don't have enough intestinal fortitude to water it from time to time. That has always, throughout all of human history, led to a bloody revolution. Maybe it won't happen in our lifetime, but it will happen. The cowards who are bowing to this nonsense are placing their descendants in grave physical danger, not form a virus that is completely treatable, but from bullets and bombs and angry mobs.

My family has a long history of serving in the military. Every one risked their very lives to protect the country that they had, so their descendants could have the same (or better) advantages they had. They were, and are, heroes in every sense of the word. I would imagine every one of them is turning over in their graves, knowing that they risked their lives so their descendants could snivel in a corner under oppression.

All for a vaccine that does not work. If it worked, why would anyone vaccinated worry about who else is or is not?

TheRedneck



posted on Oct, 22 2021 @ 12:13 PM
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Just wondering, as a religious parent, what is potentially the biggest waste of money?

Oh Suzie's going to get a useless college degree in "wokeness".

But Johnny - oh boy he's going to ace the army, and get a nice pension.

Let's hope so.



posted on Oct, 22 2021 @ 12:40 PM
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Me and my glasses - I first thought the thread said "Bigfoot exemption".

Well I actually do think Bigfoot should get an exemption.

Who knows?

One day when we've really stuffed ourselves up, we might need a close relative.



posted on Oct, 22 2021 @ 01:14 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

There wasnt any vaccine mandates when they quit... matter of fact, they wouldn't have been allowed to get one if they wanted to. Try again? I will only go as far as saying that the politicalization, the misinformation regardless of where you think it is coming from MAY have played a part. And. I get my information from more than maddow and cnn. That video I mentioned that was talking about the religious right was from cbs. I also have a habit of going and finding court documents and reading them when I can find them. I know about the fetal cells being in the rabies vaccine from a scientific paper i read.
There have been deaths from every vaccine, not many, but still..
And.. there ya go calling people cowards again... fearful of a silly bug. If it is such a silly harmless bug, why do I hear people from the right saying china should be punished for letting it lose onto the world?
Oh, and nothing diminishes the credibility of a group of people than having those they hold up as truth tellers in court defending themselves claiming the were delusional (alex jones), or that no one should have taken her seriously...( I believe that was the cracken lady). So excuse me if I take whatever the right says with a bit of caution. The pizza shop didn't even have a basement. Let alone child sex slaves imprisoned in it. Sandy hook actually ended up with a bunch of dead kids. And no massive fraud was ever proven in the last presidential election. Hospitals not that long ago were rationing healthcare, choosing who would most likely live if given that precious icu bed, ventilator, and oxygen while resigning to send others to just be made comfortable because they were overwhelmed with covid cases in a few areas and states in this country.
Does that justify forcing everyone to get a vaccine? In my opinion no. But it does kind of tell me that it is more than just a silly next to harmless bug.
Who would care if others weren't vaccinated? Parents with kids who are just now being allowed to get vaccinated. Elderly people who know that their age or health problem may make the vaccine less effective.
Just to name a few...


edit on 22-10-2021 by dawnstar because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2021 @ 08:29 PM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: TheRedneck
Can you honestly say that your objection to vaccines is based on sincerely held spiritual beliefs? If you can honestly say yes, then you deserve a religious exemption. If the answer is no and you are just wanting to game the system well I think you are probably misusing and abusing a good thing and it will lead to some not so good outcomes.

I sort of agree, but not really.

I see a religious exemption as the cowards way out.

I don't need a religious exemption.

I AM EXEMPT. BECAUSE I OWN MY BODY AND I DON'T WANT YOUR DAMNED JAB. PERIOD.

Or, even better, to quote a most excellent comment from NightSkyeB4Dawn above:

"Shun me, execute me. I will not comply."

ETA: Ok, cowards way out may have been a bit harsh, but I agree one shouldn't lie about it. That said, there is plenty in the Bible you can use to back up such a belief.
edit on 25-10-2021 by tanstaafl because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2021 @ 08:34 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: dawnstar
"I guess you must also feel that none of those vaccinations that kids are required to attend school should be forced either?"

No, they should not be forced. I don't think they need to be forced. If the schools want to require them, then at least the schools should pay for them. If these childhood vaccines were free and proven (and they are proven, over decades of use), I doubt many parents would oppose them.

The only way I could even begin to agree with this idea is if it was dramatically easier to prove vaccine injury and get full compensation, up to and including lifetime support if the injury is permanent and debilitating.

In fact, I'd go so far to say that a Vaccine Injury claim should be taken as true on its face, and it would be up to bog pharma to PROVE it wasn't their jab. I'd also be fine with a massive criminal penalty for knowingly making a false claim (ie, your child was already damaged before the jab).



posted on Oct, 25 2021 @ 10:42 PM
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originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: TheRedneck
Can you honestly say that your objection to vaccines is based on sincerely held spiritual beliefs? If you can honestly say yes, then you deserve a religious exemption. If the answer is no and you are just wanting to game the system well I think you are probably misusing and abusing a good thing and it will lead to some not so good outcomes.

I sort of agree, but not really.

I see a religious exemption as the cowards way out.

I don't need a religious exemption.

I AM EXEMPT. BECAUSE I OWN MY BODY AND I DON'T WANT YOUR DAMNED JAB. PERIOD.

Or, even better, to quote a most excellent comment from NightSkyeB4Dawn above:

"Shun me, execute me. I will not comply."

ETA: Ok, cowards way out may have been a bit harsh, but I agree one shouldn't lie about it. That said, there is plenty in the Bible you can use to back up such a belief.


Do the Ten Commandment Laws say to
comply with forced, intimidating, dna therapy ?
It's not a law in my book.
Thus my religious laws over rule, no need to lie.



posted on Oct, 25 2021 @ 11:13 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar


There wasnt any vaccine mandates when they quit

And how do you know one wasn't announced? Do you have the ear of the company they worked for? Are you sitting in on the meetings?


I get my information from more than maddow and cnn. That video I mentioned that was talking about the religious right was from cbs.

Believe it or not, CBS is still not God.


There have been deaths from every vaccine, not many, but still..

And that is why mandates are wrong. It's like forcing someone to play Russian Roulette. Will they die from a forced vaccine? Maybe not... probably not... but isn't that then their decision?

Not to mention, I will say it again, if this is a vaccine, it is the worst vaccine that has ever been developed! Even the manufacturers are admitting that it doesn't prevent the disease, just makes it less bad. And I now know of three people who have been hospitalized with the virus after being vaccinated. I only know of 5 people who have definitely had it.


And.. there ya go calling people cowards again... fearful of a silly bug.

Are you seriously suggesting that the person who is not at all interested in the vaccine, doesn't wear a mask, and hasn't changed one thing in his life since this began is afraid of it?

I'd say it is you who are afraid of the virus. If not, why do people need a vaccine?


Oh, and nothing diminishes the credibility of a group of people than having those they hold up as truth tellers...

Oh, puh-leeze!

Nothing diminishes one's reputation like making wild assumptions. Like your assumption that because I am not getting vaccinated against a bad cold, I must agree with Alex Jones, Pizzagate, The Sandy Hook nonsense, and I suppose a whole cornucopia of other ridiculous claims.

That is a cop-out. You can't effectively debate me, so you start trying to debate someone you think is me. How about we stick to the topic, OK? If you can't debate without me liking Alex Jones, then you cannot debate me.

I am me. I am not some amalgamation of right wing policies. I believe what I believe, and I live how I choose to live. Either accept that or move on defeated.


Who would care if others weren't vaccinated? Parents with kids who are just now being allowed to get vaccinated. Elderly people who know that their age or health problem may make the vaccine less effective.

According to the manufacturers of the vaccines, they do not stop a person from taking the disease, nor do they stop a person from spreading the disease. So what's the benefit to the vaccinated? It cannot be a fear of catching the virus from the unvaccinated, because the vaccinated spread it too!

TheRedneck



posted on Oct, 26 2021 @ 05:40 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck
They couldn't have mandated a vaccine if the vaccines weren't open to their employees, could they? Remember, they were rather picky as to who they wanted to give the shot to at the beginning.



posted on Oct, 26 2021 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar


They couldn't have mandated a vaccine if the vaccines weren't open to their employees, could they?

Say what? Just because something is available, you think that makes it OK to mandate it?


Remember, they were rather picky as to who they wanted to give the shot to at the beginning.

That's because it takes time to manufacture things. They do not spring forth out of thin air in a plant somewhere. Someone has to make them, and that takes time.

TheRedneck



posted on Oct, 26 2021 @ 12:05 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck
And... you can't mandate something that isn't available!! It wasn't available to my sons at the time they left the job, so obviously they couldn't have quit because the company was requiring them to be vaccinated.



posted on Oct, 26 2021 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar


you can't mandate something that isn't available!

While somewhat* true, it does not follow that one should mandate what is available.

*Obamacare mandated health insurance, whether it was available to an individual or not. If it wasn't, one simply had to pay a fine for not having something that was not available to them.

TheRedneck



posted on Oct, 28 2021 @ 08:13 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck
It does discredit your assertion that my kids quit their jobs because of a vaccine mandate though, doesn't it?



posted on Oct, 28 2021 @ 09:06 PM
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a reply to: HilterDayon

Breaking - 10.28.2021

CHURCH v. BIDEN re: Vaccine Mandate.

Church Wins!: twitter.com...





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