Religious exemption

originally posted by: HilterDayon
Religious exemptions for the global covid vaccine rollout are not being accepted by the authorities. Basically there are no exceptions for refusal, but the rejection of a plea for exemption on religious grounds has a connotation which runs deeper than just the highest law is one which is for the common good.

Plea? Don't ask for one.

Simply make your own exemption card.

"Damn them all to hell!"

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: TheRedneck

And, it is your opinion that the vaccine and masks are ineffective.

They mostly are, or worse - the jabs are know to be causing massive damages that are going totally unreported.

[quoteBut that vaccinated person has less chance of having severe symptoms, less chance of hospitalization, less chance of death. The vaccine is very effective when it comes to that.
That is just your opinion.

Your opinion has absolutely no basis in fact, its only basis is the word of a bunch of evil sorcerers and known liars.

a reply to: tanstaafl
" evil sorcerers"??

And you want me to take anything you say seriously?
Think you have been listening to some of those self proclaimed prophets of god I spoke of earlier.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: tanstaafl
" evil sorcerers"??

Yes - that is how the Bible refers to big pharma.

And you want me to take anything you say seriously?

I actually couldn't care less how you take anything I say...

a reply to: tanstaafl

I believe you are getting this idea from the fact that the word sorcery being translated from the Greek word pharmakeia? Ya, pharmakeia could mean drugs or medication. Or, it could mean socery, magic, witchcraft, enchantment, depending on the context of the sentence it is used in. You seem to be choosing to use the definition of drugs and medication for it.
so, I guess I am using sorcery when I pop a couple of ibprophen to control the pain and swelling in that ankle I broke years ago, not to mention all the drugs they gave me to keep me unconscious while they operated on that ankle. And, I don't ever want to hear you tell me how I don't need to worry about all those little girls not getting enough nutrients for their growing bodies while they are pregnant because that is what prenatal vitamins are for. And as far as that little bit of winter green I might be adding to my tea to settle an upset stomach well I am sorry but if the bible is talking about medication, then those herbal remedies were pretty much all the ancient Hebrews had. So, what does that leave us with? Prayer and faith without any type of medical care whatsoever?

Whoever is preaching this insane interpretation of bible scripture is the one that is lying! We have enough problems without worrying about imaginary evil sorcerers. Besides, I happen to know that those evil sorcerers won't be around till after the great worldwide disaster that ends our society and breaks the west coast into just a bunch of islands.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: HilterDayon
Religious exemptions for the global covid vaccine rollout are not being accepted by the authorities. Basically there are no exceptions for refusal, but the rejection of a plea for exemption on religious grounds has a connotation which runs deeper than just the highest law is one which is for the common good.

Plea? Don't ask for one.

Simply make your own exemption card.

"Damn them all to hell!"

For those who don't want to use Fake "I've been vaccinated" cards, here are legitimate Vaccine Exemption cards for personal use.

Exemption Documents: maskexemption.cards...

a reply to: dawnstar

Actually, before around the 1980s, the medical community were calling them spontaneous abortions but, I am not calling the miscarriage an abortion but rather talking about the treatment options available for the miscarriage.

Backpeddle.

You realize your link says the exact opposite of what you have been claiming. Treatment for miscarriage, by your own link, can range from that "wait and see" option to direct intervention depending on the situation and the health of the mother. What, you think the doc can just pull the kid out whenever he feels like it? There are freakin' medical issues involved, which you seem to want to ignore over your freakin' agenda!

Talk about spreading misery! You'd see women harmed, possibly seriously, because you want dead babies? Are you daft?

YOU and people like YOU are directly responsible for the damn Texas law you are now complaining about, because you won't listen to any reason! It's gonna be your way or no way, and anyone who gets hurt be damned.

Mr. Seago from the texas right to life seems to consider them the same thing

Then Mr. Seago is wrong. Or, based on the link you just shared being the opposite of what you claimed, maybe you just won't hear him.

the kind of supply of dark money flowing in that those right to life groups do

Oh, spare me! There's that kind of money flowing on both sides.

a few words now and then on a stupid forum isn't gonna create much of anything?

Don't sell yourself short. When enough people start saying something, politicians tend to listen. And that then creates problems for everyone.

I live with my three adult sons. Two, well I will hold my tongue and just say they are trumpian conservatives. I got sick of them arguing with me about this crap and complaining about me watching cnn and racheal maddow. So now, I just mostly watch old time westerns and,whatever other shows I can find on you tube. And, I get it in stereo, coming from both side of the house, day and night, far right bullcrap!!

Maybe if you would actually listen to someone besides CNN and Rachal Maddow for a change, you might actually be able to get along with your kids. From where I sit, it looks like they've poisoned your mind. You can't even read the links you give... it's like you see them and substitute the words you want for the words that are there.

Just slow down and try listening to what others are saying without judging them first based on a letter next to their name or what Don Lemon thinks about them (I assume Lemon is still spouting his poison; I haven't watched news on TV for almost a year now). People are not saying what you think they are, and if you slow down and listen to them, you might figure that out.

I really feel sorry for you. You are alienating your own kids instead of teaching them, all because you worship a bunch of stuff shirts on that idiot box. And yes, you are worshiping them, make no mistake... you believe every word they tell you, you act when they say act, and you even place them above your own family.

And when you do get to that "final frontier," as much as I hate to burst that bubble... Rachal Maddow won't be there.

Wake up.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck
I think it is you that is being a bit daft!!
If you had read the first link I posted in reply to you you would realize that it is medical professionals that are saying that the texas law is adversely affecting the medical care and it is them who are talking about how it is affecting the treatment given during miscarriages. They are the doctors who would be deciding which option is best. They may feel it is better to wait and see, but then they may feel that expediting the miscarriage is the best option. And the mother may decide that she disagrees with the doctor if he chooses to expedite the process and her wishes should be respected. But, the law does seem to eliminate that option till the condition places the mother in a medical emergency her life is at risk or she is at risk of severe physical damage. So send the women home after her water has broken and the baby has begun to enter the birth canal (because of a different law). Heck, keep sending the women home when she is extreme pain till she collapses on your er floor before you manage to get her out of your hospital (because of the hospitals religious doctrines). What I am saying is that some doctors may feel that doing this is just as immoral as aborting a healthy 17 week fetus. And, that religious freedom should work both ways.
And, in every one of the abortion discussions I have centered on what i feel are the legitimate reason for abortions, those instances when the pregnancy itself has impacted the women's health or abilities to the point where she is unable to do simple things, like pick up her two year old, a small incest victim not even able to roll over in bed, a women facing the prospect of death wondering just who will take care of her living children. If you don't like me griping then have your danged lawmakers put some exemptions in their stupid laws instead of making deals with big corps to take care of the expected overflow of unwanted foster kids!

I don't even know who don lemon is. Racheal maddow is on for less than an hour a day if one just goes to msnbc and listens to her podcast.. cnn consists of just short clips on you tube. We don't have a tv, don't want one. Like I said, mostly I am watching other stuff with a wide variety of topics along with some older movies and tv shows. Since they complained I have tried to limit my consumption of stuff they may find upsetting. But, the more Iimit, the louder they are with their stuff. Which I tolerate and just knock on their doors and ask them to turn it down because I am going to bed. If that is alienating them well I guess I will move out and well, they can handle my share of the living expenses here. Me offering my son a bible to read was my attempt of gently teaching him. If he is listening to the same crap as I have (yes, I pay attention to what those self professed "prophets" are saying) I think he should sit down and actually read the book for himself.. and well maybe come to me if he has any questions. Ya know, just so he doesn't believe that there are "evil sorcerers" mixing up the medications he might find a need for later life.

a reply to: dawnstar

They are the doctors who would be deciding which option is best. They may feel it is better to wait and see, but then they may feel that expediting the miscarriage is the best option. And the mother may decide that she disagrees with the doctor if he chooses to expedite the process and her wishes should be respected.

But someone who chooses to not take a vaccine, their wishes are not to be respected.

Do you read what you post?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Did I ever say their wishes shouldn't be?

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: tanstaafl

Whoever is preaching this insane interpretation of bible scripture is the one that is lying!

Nope. It is a matter of application.

Inexpensive over the counter medications are not even remotely the same thing as what we are dealing with now.

By suggesting they are one and the same, you are the one engaging in lying.

We have enough problems without worrying about imaginary evil sorcerers.

They are in full control of our society now. They do everything in their now considerable power to vilify inexpensive natural therapies that do not fill their coffins - er, coffers - with money and power. Now they are raking in more than ever with their forced experimental toxic gene jabs and massively expensive experimental toxic death drugs (remdesivir), all enabled by their false vilification of safe, effective and inexpensive therapeutics (that was the only way they could get their necessary EUA's for everything) for some new coronavirus that has a ridiculously low (less than 0.01%) CFR when these safe, effective inexpensive therapeutics are used.

So... evil? Yes, absolutely. Sorcerers? Maybe not in the commonly understood meaning, but... yes, I would even call them modern day sorcerers.

a reply to: tanstaafl
I get it, our healthcare system is crap with its main goal being profit! But, to those who wrote the books of bible and those that writing was originally intended for... nothing like our modern day medicine existed. The medicines of the day were like what we would call folk medicine, herbal medicines, using the healing powers of the plants that were growing around them free for the picking. But of course, if you take the scriptures and a little knowledge of the Greek version, you might notice that in Greek the word pharmakeia is used and those who translated the Greek bible into english chose sorcery as a suitable translation considering the context... but wait.. another possible meaning could be medicine and a little wave of a magical wand, suddenly sorcery becomes just another word for medicene and low and behold you have a biblical justification to support your position to this one vaccine and lead your sheep onward to acheive your political goals.
Yous wouldn't know evil if it came up and bit you in the arse.

a reply to: dawnstar

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you arguing that religious exemptions shouldn't be allowed?

TheRedneck

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: dawnstar

I am sorry, but I don't care if a bunch of cops come with search warrants, if they can't take measures to prevent exposing me to their possible covid germs, they won't be entering my home without a fight!

The more I hear and see from those areas where they have dug in their heels about the mandates, that is exactly what they are coming for. They want a fight.

It is sheer bullying, terrorizing, forced compliance, intimidation. Their goal is complete control.

I live in the country and I am an old lady.

I know I can't fight an armed war, but I can resist. I will not comply.

Knock me down, lock me up. Call me what makes you feel you are superior, mighty, and more intelligent than me.

Shun me, execute me. I will not comply.

We have reached the point where the die has been cast. There is no one hesitant left. We have all decided, whether we want to be honest with ourselves or not.

You are either going to take it, and you are just waiting it out because you want to make yourself believe you fought the good fight, or you are not going to take it, knowing that you are stepping into the fire. I am committed in my decision. Like many I am long past the the need for explanations or excuses.

I just say "no". A simple, quiet "no". Drop the mike, as they say, and walk away.

Thank You, that was articulated very well.
I am right there with you!
Quad

a reply to: TheRedneck

There are many things that begin as good ideas, started with good intentions that become not so good because of misuse and abuse.
Can you honestly say that your objection to vaccines is based on sincerely held spiritual beliefs? If you can honestly say yes, then you deserve a religious exemption. If the answer is no and you are just wanting to game the system well I think you are probably misusing and abusing a good thing and it will lead to some not so good outcomes.
For instance, I believe it was you that was saying that getting the vaccine is a sign of a lack of faith. Was it a sign of a lack of faith when you went to the er? Or, this idea that today's medicine is sorcery. Who here wants to go back to the time of leeches and herbal remedies and a life expectancy half of what it is now for a false interpretation of bible scripture? How far can we twist a religion to meet what is really a political goal? I mean we've already had one pastor basically kick anyone wearing a mask out of their church. Pastors claiming if you don't back trump you just aren't good Christian's. And, oh ya, the evil is everywhere. I doubt if there was more superstitious nonsense being spouted during the Salam witch trials.
I don't have any idea what happened to the signatures that we all used to have. If they are gone or if they just don't show on the devices I use now. But do you remember what mine was? Basically the message was that when you turn around trying control others, you turn your eyes away from god. And, sometimes when your eyes are turned away, an imposter steps in to lead you astray.
Maybe it isn't me who needs to wake up!! Take a closer look at the god you have been following.

a reply to: dawnstar

Can you honestly say that your objection to vaccines is based on sincerely held spiritual beliefs?

Can you or anyone else determine whether my objection on religious grounds is legitimate? That is my point.

I believe it was you that was saying that getting the vaccine is a sign of a lack of faith.

I believe you are mistaken. If I did say something to that effect, you are taking it out of context. I have no problem with modern medicine as long as one remains in control of their own bodies. If I start down the wrong path medically, God will let me know so I can correct it. That is my faith. In the meantime, I do not rely primarily on modern medicine; I rely on the body that God gave me. That, too, is my faith.

I have mentioned that the extreme fear some people have is indicative, to my eyes, of a lack of faith.

Who here wants to go back to the time of leeches and herbal remedies and a life expectancy half of what it is now for a false interpretation of bible scripture?

Again, I am not proposing such. I am saying that forced medical procedures are a big problem. In the ER, since you want to point to that, I chose to call 911; I chose to go to the hospital after consulting with the EMTs and looking at the information they had; I chose to undergo the cath surgery after consulting with the doctor and talking with my wife by phone. There was never a time when I was not in control of what happened to me medically. As a matter of fact,I probably delayed my surgery for up to 30 minutes because I demanded I would be in control. I credit God for keeping me alive during that time so I could make an informed decision; that is my faith.

When I underwent open-heart surgery, there was never a time when I thought I would die on the operating table. Not once. I knew better, because God told me better. My concern was being disabled afterward, and it seems that came to pass. However, there are good parts to that, and my prayers before the surgery were not that I would not be disabled; they were that I would still be able to be useful and work on my projects. That came to pass as well... after time. I'm getting there, anyway, with God's help.

Sometimes a blessing can be disguised as a curse, and sometimes the answer is not what we think we want.

Oh, and you might want to check out this link. Leeches are still used in some cases.

"Despite all the technical advances in modern medicine, in certain post-surgical situations, we do still rely on one of nature’s most primitive organisms – the leech – to assist us in achieving a good outcome,” says Rod Rezaee, MD, UH otolaryngologist and head and neck surgeon.

There are also some studies that indicate the use of maggots are optimal for removing dead tissue without surgery, as in the case of severe third-degree burns and necrosis. Surprise!

One question though: how exactly do you know that someone else's interpretation of the Biblical scriptures is "false"? Are you God?

Basically the message was that when you turn around trying control others, you turn your eyes away from god.

I agree.

Now, let me ask you: who is trying to control others? Those who want to force others to take a vaccine they do not want, or those who don't want to take the vaccine?

I say the former.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Only the one making the claim can determine if the claim is sincere. That doesn't change the fact that if making insincere claims or twisting religious principles to get the masses to believe in a false principle doesn't do harm. Well, one of those harms that I didn't mention is that if enough people jump on this bandwagon with their own "religious beliefs" to justify their own wants or desires, the system will become unworkable, the exemptions will go away. Just like you are claiming that it is women's abuse of abortion that has led to the current round of abortion laws.
So, you are against mandatory vaccines you say. I guess you must also feel that none of those vaccinations that kids are required to attend school should be forced either? Or, do you have a list of the vaccines you feel shouldn't be? Back in I believe it was the 90s doctors were so adament about giving c-sections that they sometimes ran to judges to force the issue. It eventually ended not so much because people woke up and decided that women should have the right to refuse such care but rather it was found that many of the c-sections were unnecessary. Do you feel the same when it comes to women's rights to decide the proper healthcare for themselves?

If god can advise you as to what healthcare you should or shouldn't pursue, he can alert me with big flashing signs when his teachings are being misrepresented. And I have been accused of being afraid of this virus by too many people, including you.. so, I guess if you can read people's minds and know they are acting in fear and just proclaim them as not having enough faith in god..
I can alert others when he tells me when the self proclaimed prophets are speaking words that are not from him.
George Washingtom forced his troops to take the smallpox vaccine. Did he do it because he wanted to control them, or because he wanted an army that was healthy enough to win a war? When it comes to politics, the players are playing for control. When the Christian's decided to step into that arena and become big players, they are doing so for the same goal. But, that little nugget of mine I learned way back in the 80s, the game was in it's infancy as far as the religions go. I was watching it go down on a more personal level within the church I was attending. The power the men desired was to replace the current pastor who was getting up in age. So, of course, those men had to somehow transform their wife's into what they viewed as the perfect pastor's wife. The bait was set... to become pastor and leader of the flock, the diversion, misdirection accomplished, get you women under your control... and then I started having dreams, seeing the spirit that was behind some of these men. Alot of people were hurt during this time as people made unkind judgements against their behavior and people started leaving the church, my husband and me included. By what I understand, the pastor didn't retire all that soon and when he did, none of those men got the position, the pastor brought his son in. I never really got back in church but by what I see now I get the feeling that spirit really made the rounds.

a reply to: dawnstar

I guess you must also feel that none of those vaccinations that kids are required to attend school should be forced either?

No, they should not be forced. I don't think they need to be forced. If the schools want to require them, then at least the schools should pay for them. If these childhood vaccines were free and proven (and they are proven, over decades of use), I doubt many parents would oppose them.

Technically, one can always preschool their children, and there is a religious exemption that is pretty much unquestioned.

Or, do you have a list of the vaccines you feel shouldn't be?

I personally have no problem with vaccines that work and do not cause long-term side effects. That would be any of the childhood vaccines. However, I do not believe any of them should be forced on people (in the case of a child, forced onto the parents). Education and honesty will fix the vast, vast majority of the problems with having kids vaccinated, and the few who still do not, well, who are they hurting other than themselves? If my kid is vaccinated against polio and yours isn't, mine will not contract polio even if yours does.

However, the yearly flu shot? Nope, don't want it. Never had one. Never intend to have one. A flu to my immunity is grumble one evening, run a fever, go to bed, wake up with it gone. That is not worth it to me to have that shot.

The same thinking goes for this Chinese virus vaccine. I'm not scared of it, in the least. If I get it, I'll knock it out like any other virus.

Now, to give a contrasting example, they just came out with a shingles vaccine. That caught my ear, because I know some people who have had shingles, and it is apparently extremely painful and takes a long time to recover. I'm waiting to see if there are any problems with it, and if none appear, I'll probably get it.

Common sense and reason: educate people and be honest about the risks and rewards, and believe that most people will make good decisions once informed. I know a few won't, but if the vaccine works, what does that matter to anyone who took it?

Do you feel the same when it comes to women's rights to decide the proper healthcare for themselves?

Absolutely, as long as it is their body they are talking about.

George Washingtom forced his troops to take the smallpox vaccine. Did he do it because he wanted to control them, or because he wanted an army that was healthy enough to win a war?

People keep bringing up the military... you do realize that one is in the military for one of two reasons, right? Either they chose to enlist (which means they accepted that they would be vaccinated as needed for foreign exposure) or they were drafted (which means a war is going on where someone in the world wants to kill everyone here).

I am not going to entertain this crazy uninformed notion that because the military does something, civilians should as well. Just not gonna do it. It's based on utter ignorance.

When the Christian's decided to step into that arena and become big players, they are doing so for the same goal.

"Christian" is not a political party. That is based on utter ignorance as well.

Besides, the Bible itself says people should not control other people. In Genesis, when God made Adam, He specified what Adam would have dominion over. That included fish, birds, insects, animals, plants... everything on the damn planet... except for one thing: People. Adam never received dominion over other people, and none of us have received that either.

"Christian" refers to a religion, not a political platform. No wonder your kids won't listen to you about the Bible if you think like that.

As for your church experience, look, there are bad people in every group. Humans are weak and easily tempted. That's why we needed Jesus in the first place. "All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God." I have seen the same thing many times in my life... to the point I rarely attend church any more. I tend to watch TV pastors when one of them get on a roll, and switch when they (invariably) go astray. I have my mountain, where God lives, and I go visit Him as often as I can.

Point is, what you experienced was a local political turmoil, not Christianity. Just because you put a cross on a building, ti does not magically become a "house of God." Was their behavior wrong? Sure was; anti-Bible all the way. But what did it do to you and your husband? You changed churches. Done. Once you changed, those fools had no control over you, and even before you changed churches, they had no power to stop you from doing so. It didn't cost you anything to change churches (at least I hope not!) and you didn't lose your job over changing churches.

Political parties do have power over people, especially when they control a majority of all branches and decide to wield that power. Laws are forced compliance. Church doctrine is not.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: tanstaafl

Yous wouldn't know evil if it came up and bit you in the arse.

Obviously, you are talking to yourself here...

I used to feel sorry for people like you. No longer. You will reap what you sow, which is just another term for justice. This is as it should be.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Umm... the vaccines are free? Contact your local dept of health they will give you further information. I never paid for my children's vaccinations.
And, sure your vaccinated child might not get polio from an unvaccinated child but polio is a crippling disease, which might remove that CV hild from the future workforce which means lifelong disability payments. If enough parents shun the vaccine, it could put a strain on the hospitals, increase the cost of your healthcare and insurance.
And, all vaccines present a small chance of long term side effects.

So, you wouldn't have a problem with doctors and courts over riding the wishes of a women and forcing c-sections on them since it isn't just her body involved?

I didn't ask you if you thought the military should have a higher right to force them to get vaccinated, I asked you if you thought washington forced his troops to get smallpox vaccines because he was on a power trip or if he just wanted to have an army that was healthy enough to fight a war.
Think maybe the local, state, and federal govts might also have a motive other than their quest for control? Maybe the idea that they know that one of the keys to getting people back to work and our economy up and running is to make the people feel safe enough to send their kids to school so they can get back to work? Got to tell ya, having the schools shutting down once or twice a month because of covid outbreaks and hearing that your hospital is having to ration their care because they are overwhelmed with covid patients just doesn't make people feel that safe. And, I can just imagine the kind of lawsuit a city would face if some of their police force served a search warrant (heck it doesn't even need to be the right address does it?) And the family living there had gone to the extreme to protect one of their children because the child had cancer and undergoing chemo. And, then have half those officers who stormed their home, invaded the space they had so carefully tried to keep germ free, and the child soon contracted covid afterwards. And, ya I know they could just as easily bring in a cold or flu but that only means maybe the people who are giving the power to go storming into peoples homes should have to wear masks even when there is no covid. And. I know you wouldn't accept that one.


Umm.. I was listening to a video today about the christian right. It had one some of the preachers talking, played some of the sermons they were giving in their churches. One guy's church grew from this little tiny congregation to be so big they had to move it to a big circus tent over the last few years. It grew because he was talking more about politics, conspiracy theories and how evil the dems were more that he was the christian teachings. He had a short on:
"Make America Godly Again".
Well you can't make America godly again because you can't make the american people godly. It is something each one has to chose for themselves,
You can manipulate the govt and the laws and force the people to act more godly, but just as you can slap lipstick on a pig, but in the end, it is still just a pig, you can write all the laws you want to give the nation the appearance of godliness but unless the people follow along it will be just as ungodly as it was before.
Like I said. I get the crap in stereo coming from both sides of the house all hours day and night,oud enough to wake me up from a deep sleep. I know what my kids are listening to and some of it are these preachers. So ya, I pay attention to what these preachers are saying. My response was to offer them a bible to read and compare with what those preachers were saying and telling them i thought they might be listening to someone who is a bit misguided. I didn't really go much into my beliefs or opinions. If they really want to reach god, god will be there and set them on the path he wishes them to follow. I am their mom, my words would carry a bit of weight and my beliefs are a bit screwy so no.. I will just trust the one who created a universe from nothing to reveal the truth to them. I feel a little more free when it is just words on a computer screen being read by strangers to be considered and accepted or rejected and even then I usually throw in something along the way that will make them doubt my sanity. That way, a seed that is planted can easily be plucked if need be.